I do not see any difference between that play and the Dez play in 2014 *merged*

percyhoward

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MarcusRock said:
Wasn't based a player's body position either.
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Not even debatable.

2015
Item 1. Player Going to the Ground.
A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground.

2014
Item 1: Player Going to the Ground.
If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground.​

MarcusRock said:
Again, go to the case rule that was in the 2014 and 2015 rulebook. If that's an example of a player completing the process of a catch while falling then they could do it in 2014 AND in 2015, right? There's no getting around that. And it means that nothing changed from 2014 to 2015 like you are attempting to shoehorn with the rule language.
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So a player who lunged was considered "upright long enough" to be a runner in 2015.

This relates to the Dez play how?
 
percyhoward

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MarcusRock said:
He states it in the video blindfaith posted and in the article you keep posting and supposing to say different things each time when the text says things completely different. He said since the rule has been tinkered with "since 1999." Take your pick as to what that means in all those years. What I (or you) think doesn't matter. Produce a quote where he's more specific. A complete quote.
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You avoided my question there.

When Pereira said they "got off track" what was he talking about?
 
MarcusRock

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Again, the going to the ground rule trumps the 3-part process per this video by Pereira where he directly links it Dez Bryant. If this only went into effect with the 2015 rules, why wasn't there a huge uproar when the 2015 rules changes were announced, especially when word was that they were re-wording the catch rule. It had just been a big deal. Everyone was watching to see how the rule would look. Blandino was even questioned if the Dez catch would be a catch by the 2015 rules. They were waiting to pounce. If the league had established that precedent in 2015, the media would have outright assaulted the NFL and even non-Cowboys fans would cry out that this was "fishy" business by the league. Did any of this happen? In all the articles published about NFL rule changes that year, especially the catch rule, is there any mention of that major change in the catch rule?
 
percyhoward

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BlindFaith said:
How many times does the dang rule book need to be quoted until you get it?

1. Possess ball
2. Two feet down
3. Make move common

If while doing any of the above the player is going to the ground they have to maintain control through contacting the ground.
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Not "if while doing any of the above," but if the player goes to the ground without doing all of the above.
 
percyhoward

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MarcusRock said:
Read my sentence again.
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The sentence doesn't "debunk" the fact that a player could make a football move while falling in 2014.

If a player couldn't make a football move while falling, Blandino would have said so at some point prior to 2015.
 
MarcusRock

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percyhoward said:
Not even debatable.

2015
Item 1. Player Going to the Ground.
A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground.

2014
Item 1: Player Going to the Ground.
If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground.​
Click to expand...
​

Right. You aren't upright long enough if you haven't performed football moves to clearly become a runner unless an official uses time to say that you are before going to the ground. Again, go back to my examples I posted where application of the rules is consistent from 2014 to 2015. If you can't make a football move because a defender prevents you from doing so before slamming a player to the ground, the official has the same leeway to declare him upright long enough before going to the ground applies solely on the basis of time if necessary.

percyhoward said:
So a player who lunged was considered "upright long enough" to be a runner in 2015.

This relates to the Dez play how?
Click to expand...

Same answer I gave to another catch theorist. Because Dez didn't lunge. Pereira, Steratore, and Blandino were all asked. All said he failed in his attempt. It's in the rulebook as a get out of jail free card and he failed to do so.
 
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MarcusRock

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percyhoward said:
The sentence doesn't "debunk" the fact that a player could make a football move while falling in 2014.
Click to expand...

I'm taking Aviano's advice and just cutting and pasting at this point:

If the casebook play is an example of a player completing the process of a catch while falling then they could do it in 2014 AND in 2015 since it appeared in both years' rules, right? There's no getting around that. And it means that nothing changed from 2014 to 2015 like you are attempting to shoehorn with the rule language.
 
blindzebra

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MarcusRock said:
​

Right. You aren't upright long enough if you haven't performed football moves to clearly become a runner unless an official uses time to say that you are before going to the ground. Again, go back to my examples I posted where application of the rules is consistent from 2014 to 2015. If you can't make a football move because a defender prevents you from doing so before slamming a player to the ground, the official has the same leeway to declare him upright long enough before going to the ground applies.



Same answer I gave to another catch theorist. Because Dez didn't lunge. Pereira, Steratore, and Blandino were all asked. All said he failed in his attempt. It's in the rulebook as a get out of jail free card and he failed to do so.
Click to expand...
Okay, let's take this as being correct under the 2014 rule (which is wasn't). The call on the field was a runner down by contact. What conclusive evidence did they have that in the step, turn, brace, and reach that there was no football move? Immediately after the play nobody said lunge, they all said football move. What clear evidence was there?
 
BlindFaith

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percyhoward said:
Not "if while doing any of the above," but if the player goes to the ground without doing all of the above.
Click to expand...

Lol. The rule doesn't say anything about having to make a football move while going to the ground. Maintaining possession IS the football move.

And if they are able to make a football move then they are clearly not going to the ground.
 
MarcusRock

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percyhoward said:
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/the...-dez-bryant-play-rule-rewritten-merge.326133/
Click to expand...

Of course emotional Cowboys fans are going to cry CONSPIRACY! the same way Steelers fans would if they re-word the rule this offseason.

You left off the rest of my post that had questions in it. Cutting and pasting again:

"It had just been a big deal. Everyone was watching to see how the rule would look. Blandino was even questioned if the Dez catch would be a catch by the 2015 rules. They were waiting to pounce. If the league had established that precedent in 2015, the media would have outright assaulted the NFL and even non-Cowboys fans would cry out that this was "fishy" business by the league. Did any of this happen? In all the articles published about NFL rule changes that year, especially the catch rule, is there any mention of that major change in the catch rule?"
 
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