I do not see any difference between that play and the Dez play in 2014 *merged*

[KJJ]

This was Blandino and others discussing the catch rule. It has a lot of people confused even those who are involved in the game.

 

[MarcusRock]

Lol. The rule doesn't say anything about having to make a football move while going to the ground. Maintaining possession IS the football move.

And if they are able to make a football move then they are clearly not going to the ground.

Same way in 2015, if they are clearly a runner, they've made a football move or an official declared him clearly a runner on the basis of time alone, likewise they are not going to the ground. That's why the rules are the same for those 2 years and not some sinister CONSPIRACY! the catch theorists are trying to push as a last stand.

 

[percyhoward]

HERE.

I've copied the entire text here. Please highlight the part that you think deals with Dez's lunge.

“This is very similar to the Calvin Johnson play where Bryant is going to the ground to make the catch and the rule is pretty clear that when you go to the ground to make the catch you have to hold on to it throughout that entire process. When Dez hits the ground with his left arm the ball hits the ground it pops loose into the air and that is all part of the catch process that makes it an incomplete pass.”


On whether or not Dez Bryant reaching for the goal line could have been considered a football act:


“Yeah, absolutely. We looked at that aspect of it and in order for it to be a football move, it’s got to be more obvious than that, reaching the ball out with both hands, extending it for the goal line. This is all part of in our view, all part of his momentum in going to the ground and he lost the ball when he hit the ground. That in our view made it incomplete and we feel like it’s a consistent application of the rule as it has been written over the last couple of years.”


On why this is a rule and why is the rule written this way:


“I think that’s a fair point. I think people look at that and they say that is a catch but I think it is about consistency and it’s about, ok if we make that a catch then we’ve got to look at all these other plays where receivers go to the ground and where do we draw the line? Currently we have a line where control, both feet and then do something with it. If we make this a catch, then where do we draw the line with a lot of other plays where it’s clearly incomplete by rule and it can become even more inconsistent. It’s something that we’ll review with the Competition Committee – we review every year. I understand that people are upset. It looks like a catch and I don’t think that’s that far-fetched, but it’s something in order to be consistent we have to draw the line somewhere and that’s where the current line is.”


On why Dez Bryant wasn’t marked down where his elbow went down:


“Because he is not a runner yet. He has not established possession. A runner who’s established possession, absolutely. The minute his elbow hits, the minute the knee hits, he’s down by contact. Here, he’s still a receiver attempting to catch the pass so it’s treated differently and the moment that elbow hits the ball hits the ground as well and it pops up so that’s the application of the rule that was done here. He’s not a runner – he’s a receiver trying to gain possession.”

 

[Cowpolk]

I noticed that the players were wearing different uniforms and it was more recent

 

[BlindFaith]

Right, and you still haven't either.

Because it isn't mentioned in the rule book, and you have to look at things like interviews, casebooks, and previous explanations.

I have. And others have as well. Your theoretical rule isn't written as a rule, it's some case. A case that contradicts the actual written rule.

Or are you now trying to say that interviews, casebook and previous explanations supersede the actual written rules?

Sounds a little conspiratorial?

 

[MarcusRock]

Where they talked about the failed reach.

 

[KJJ]

This was a side by side comparison of the Dez and Fitzgerald catch. The Fitz play was similar to the Ertz catch. The explanation Blandino gave was that Fitz caught the ball, turned upfield which established him as a runner just prior to falling to the ground. Like Ertz, Fitz never left the ground to make the catch enabling him to immediately turn upfield and become a runner.

 

[MarcusRock]

Okay, let's take this as being correct under the 2014 rule (which is wasn't). The call on the field was a runner down by contact. What conclusive evidence did they have that in the step, turn, brace, and reach that there was no football move? Immediately after the play nobody said lunge, they all said football move. What clear evidence was there?

The clear evidence was that the going to the ground rule hadn't been applied by the field official. If you don't apply the correct rule on the field and it can be reviewed, then you apply the correct rule when you review. That is what happened.

 

[blindzebra]

I've copied the entire text here. Please highlight the part that you think deals with Dez's lunge.

“This is very similar to the Calvin Johnson play where Bryant is going to the ground to make the catch and the rule is pretty clear that when you go to the ground to make the catch you have to hold on to it throughout that entire process. When Dez hits the ground with his left arm the ball hits the ground it pops loose into the air and that is all part of the catch process that makes it an incomplete pass.”


On whether or not Dez Bryant reaching for the goal line could have been considered a football act:


“Yeah, absolutely. We looked at that aspect of it and in order for it to be a football move, it’s got to be more obvious than that, reaching the ball out with both hands, extending it for the goal line. This is all part of in our view, all part of his momentum in going to the ground and he lost the ball when he hit the ground. That in our view made it incomplete and we feel like it’s a consistent application of the rule as it has been written over the last couple of years.”


On why this is a rule and why is the rule written this way:


“I think that’s a fair point. I think people look at that and they say that is a catch but I think it is about consistency and it’s about, ok if we make that a catch then we’ve got to look at all these other plays where receivers go to the ground and where do we draw the line? Currently we have a line where control, both feet and then do something with it. If we make this a catch, then where do we draw the line with a lot of other plays where it’s clearly incomplete by rule and it can become even more inconsistent. It’s something that we’ll review with the Competition Committee – we review every year. I understand that people are upset. It looks like a catch and I don’t think that’s that far-fetched, but it’s something in order to be consistent we have to draw the line somewhere and that’s where the current line is.”


On why Dez Bryant wasn’t marked down where his elbow went down:


“Because he is not a runner yet. He has not established possession. A runner who’s established possession, absolutely. The minute his elbow hits, the minute the knee hits, he’s down by contact. Here, he’s still a receiver attempting to catch the pass so it’s treated differently and the moment that elbow hits the ball hits the ground as well and it pops up so that’s the application of the rule that was done here. He’s not a runner – he’s a receiver trying to gain possession.”

That should shut them up...but it won't.

 

[Cowpolk]

I've copied the entire text here. Please highlight the part that you think deals with Dez's lunge.

“This is very similar to the Calvin Johnson play where Bryant is going to the ground to make the catch and the rule is pretty clear that when you go to the ground to make the catch you have to hold on to it throughout that entire process. When Dez hits the ground with his left arm the ball hits the ground it pops loose into the air and that is all part of the catch process that makes it an incomplete pass.”


On whether or not Dez Bryant reaching for the goal line could have been considered a football act:


“Yeah, absolutely. We looked at that aspect of it and in order for it to be a football move, it’s got to be more obvious than that, reaching the ball out with both hands, extending it for the goal line. This is all part of in our view, all part of his momentum in going to the ground and he lost the ball when he hit the ground. That in our view made it incomplete and we feel like it’s a consistent application of the rule as it has been written over the last couple of years.”


On why this is a rule and why is the rule written this way:


“I think that’s a fair point. I think people look at that and they say that is a catch but I think it is about consistency and it’s about, ok if we make that a catch then we’ve got to look at all these other plays where receivers go to the ground and where do we draw the line? Currently we have a line where control, both feet and then do something with it. If we make this a catch, then where do we draw the line with a lot of other plays where it’s clearly incomplete by rule and it can become even more inconsistent. It’s something that we’ll review with the Competition Committee – we review every year. I understand that people are upset. It looks like a catch and I don’t think that’s that far-fetched, but it’s something in order to be consistent we have to draw the line somewhere and that’s where the current line is.”


On why Dez Bryant wasn’t marked down where his elbow went down:


“Because he is not a runner yet. He has not established possession. A runner who’s established possession, absolutely. The minute his elbow hits, the minute the knee hits, he’s down by contact. Here, he’s still a receiver attempting to catch the pass so it’s treated differently and the moment that elbow hits the ball hits the ground as well and it pops up so that’s the application of the rule that was done here. He’s not a runner – he’s a receiver trying to gain possession.”

It was a catch

 

[percyhoward]

If the casebook play is an example of a player completing the process of a catch while falling then they could do it in 2014 AND in 2015 since it appeared in both years' rules, right? And it means that nothing changed from 2014 to 2015 like you are attempting to shoehorn with the rule language.

It means a player who lunged was considered "upright long enough" to be a runner in 2015, and a player who lunged was considered to have performed an act common to the game in 2014.

Are you trying to say that any act common to the game means the player is upright long enough? Elaborate.

 

[blindzebra]

The clear evidence was that the going to the ground rule hadn't been applied by the field official. If you don't apply the correct rule on the field and it can be reviewed, then you apply the correct rule when you review. That is what happened.

Article 4 Reviewable Plays. The Replay System will cover the following play situations only:
a) Plays involving possession, including:
1) Whether a pass was complete, incomplete, intercepted in the field of play, at sideline, goal line, end zone, and end
line.
2) Whether a loose ball was recovered in the field of play, at sideline, goal line, end zone, and end line.
3) Whether a player (passer) fumbled or threw a pass.
4) Whether a pass has been thrown forward or backward.
5) Whether there has been an illegal forward handoff.
6) Whether a runner fumbled or was down by contact.
b) Plays involving touching, including:
1) Whether a forward pass has been touched by any player.
2) Whether a runner is down by defensive contact.
3) Whether a loose ball has been touched by a player.
4) Whether the ball has touched a pylon.
5) Whether a kick has been touched.
6) Whether a loose ball in play has struck a video board, guide wire, Skycam, or any other object.
c) Plays governed by the goal line, including:
1) Scoring plays, including the ball breaking the plane of the goal line.
a) Whether a Field Goal or Try attempt has crossed below or above the crossbar, inside or outside the uprights
when it is lower than the top of the uprights, or has touched anything.
2) Whether there has been a touchback, when the on-field ruling involves a runner’s momentum.
d) Plays governed by the sidelines, including:
1) Whether a runner/receiver is in or out of bounds.
2) Whether a loose ball touches a boundary line or anything on or outside such line.
e) Plays governed by the end lines, including:
1) Whether a runner/receiver is in or out of bounds.
2) Whether a loose ball is in or out of bounds.
f) Plays governed by the line of scrimmage, including:
1) Whether a forward pass has been thrown from beyond or behind the line of scrimmage.
2) Whether a forward pass has been thrown from behind the line of scrimmage after the ball has been beyond the
line.
g) Other.
1) The position of the ball with respect to a first down.
2) Whether more than 11 players were on the field at the snap.

I don't see misapplication of a rule on that list.

 

[KJJ]

If the same exact play happened to the Packers and the on the field call of a catch was overturned and the Cowboys went on to win that game. Not one fan who’s been part of this whine fest the past three years would be saying the Packers got screwed and the catch should have stood. This rule would be a lot clearer to everyone if it happened to the Packers.

 

[MarcusRock]

This was a couple of Blandino’s first explanations of the ruling.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-gameday/0ap3000000457053/Dean-Blandino-on-Dez-Bryant-call

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-netwo...00457361/Dean-Blandino-reviews-Bryant-s-catch

Just getting around to this. That 2nd link is a good one because it addresses the phantom football moves people are trying to shoehorn in and provides a clear cut example of when Dez performed an actual lunge vs. his failed attempt in Green Bay. But of course to catch theorists, Blandino is lying to cover up the CONSPIRACY! that the NFL hates the Cowboys. Same circle of victimhood over and over again.

 

[BlindFaith]

This was a side by side comparison of the Dez and Fitzgerald catch. The Fitz play was similar to the Ertz catch. The explanation Blandino gave was that Fitz caught the ball, turned upfield which established him as a runner just prior to falling to the ground. Like Ertz, Fitz never left the ground to make the catch enabling him to immediately turn upfield and become a runner.

See, this is what muddies the water. In my opinion Fitz was going to the ground. I would have ruled that as incomplete. Per the rule.

But all he has to do is tuck the ball away instead of reaching out.

 

[MarcusRock]

Article 4 Reviewable Plays. The Replay System will cover the following play situations only:
a) Plays involving possession, including:
1) Whether a pass was complete, incomplete, intercepted in the field of play, at sideline, goal line, end zone, and end
line.
2) Whether a loose ball was recovered in the field of play, at sideline, goal line, end zone, and end line.
3) Whether a player (passer) fumbled or threw a pass.
4) Whether a pass has been thrown forward or backward.
5) Whether there has been an illegal forward handoff.
6) Whether a runner fumbled or was down by contact.
b) Plays involving touching, including:
1) Whether a forward pass has been touched by any player.
2) Whether a runner is down by defensive contact.
3) Whether a loose ball has been touched by a player.
4) Whether the ball has touched a pylon.
5) Whether a kick has been touched.
6) Whether a loose ball in play has struck a video board, guide wire, Skycam, or any other object.
c) Plays governed by the goal line, including:
1) Scoring plays, including the ball breaking the plane of the goal line.
a) Whether a Field Goal or Try attempt has crossed below or above the crossbar, inside or outside the uprights
when it is lower than the top of the uprights, or has touched anything.
2) Whether there has been a touchback, when the on-field ruling involves a runner’s momentum.
d) Plays governed by the sidelines, including:
1) Whether a runner/receiver is in or out of bounds.
2) Whether a loose ball touches a boundary line or anything on or outside such line.
e) Plays governed by the end lines, including:
1) Whether a runner/receiver is in or out of bounds.
2) Whether a loose ball is in or out of bounds.
f) Plays governed by the line of scrimmage, including:
1) Whether a forward pass has been thrown from beyond or behind the line of scrimmage.
2) Whether a forward pass has been thrown from behind the line of scrimmage after the ball has been beyond the
line.
g) Other.
1) The position of the ball with respect to a first down.
2) Whether more than 11 players were on the field at the snap.

I don't see misapplication of a rule on that list.

See a) 1.
blindzebra indeed.

 

[percyhoward]

Lol. The rule doesn't say anything about having to make a football move while going to the ground. Maintaining possession IS the football move.

And if they are able to make a football move then they are clearly not going to the ground.

Here's an example of a player making a football move while going to the ground in 2009.

Here's another example from 2014. Go to 1:15.

Now, find one example of a football move not counting because the player was going to the ground. Just one, prior to 2015.

Good luck.

 

[blindzebra]

See a) 1.
blindzebra indeed.

You specifically said, overturning a misapplied rule. That is not reviewable.

 

[Cowpolk]

If the same exact play happened to the Packers and the on the field call of a catch was overturned and the Cowboys went on to win that game. Not one fan who’s been part of this whine fest the past three years would be saying the Packers got screwed and the catch should have stood. This rule would be a lot clearer to everyone if it happened to the Packers.

I would if everything was the same it was a catch no matter who did it or what team they played for

 

[BlindFaith]

Here's an example of a player making a football move while going to the ground in 2009.

Here's another example from 2014. Go to 1:15.

Now, find one example of a football move not counting because the player was going to the ground. Just one, prior to 2015.

Good luck.

Calvin Johnson in 2010?

And if you give me examples of what counts as a football move while going to the ground I could find more.

But since it's not defined in any rule and you haven't shown where it is defined as an actual rule, I'd be at a loss.