I do not see any difference between that play and the Dez play in 2014 *merged*

[Denim Chicken]

He caught it then it came loose. You don’t even need the blown up pictures I’ve posted to show the ball was going to contact the ground in that position. All anyone has to do is look at the position of his hand on the ball. The force of impacting the ground caused the ball to pop loose. The old rule many years ago would’ve had that down by contact.

But did you see the truck?

 

[KJJ]

But did you see the truck?

Not interested in the truck. There’s probably a Packer fan somewhere out there sporting a similar picture with the ball popping up off the ground. He better not drive through Packer land with that. Someone may paint a picture of the ball popping up off the ground.

 

[blindzebra]

I'm staying out of it. Birds eye view just watching the punches.

At this point all the grey areas have been erased.

It's probably obvious which way I'm leaning in this discussion.

Sorry for the interuption. Please continue. This could be the "thread of the offseason" award winner.

Not sure about thread of the off season, but it sure qualifies for most one-sided butt whooping in rules schooling in a long, long time.

 

[nathanlt]

Not sure about thread of the off season, but it sure qualifies for most one-sided butt whooping in rules schooling in a long, long time.

 

[DogFace]

MrC, are you going to answer my question? You're saying percy was wrong with that statement which prompted my question, right?

What did he say?

I’m confused about the question. You asked what observable acts were evident? I’m on my phone and going back to find it is difficult.

Ask me the question. Tell me how Percy and I differ and I’ll answer you.


I really can’t believe how you saw the Pettigrew play.

 

[OmerV]

I clearly meant three types of case plays, since they cover Item 1, becoming a runner by time, and becoming a runner by act common to the game.

You acted like the 3 plays were all relevant to the discussion, but one is a situation where the ball never even comes loose, and another is a situation where the player isn't going to the ground at all, despite contact, and the only thing that causes him to go to the ground is a lunge at the end. Accordingly, and as I said, 8.12 is really the only thing you have that is close to an argument, and again, 8.12 actually does require the "going to the ground" to be caused by contact from an opponent, despite your claims to the contrary.

 

[OmerV]

It was difficult not to with the receiver yanking his head down by the facemask.

I didn't say the refs didn't miss a penalty the other way too, but that doesn't somehow mean Hitchens didn't commit a penalty. The refs screwed up that play all the way around.

 

[OmerV]

He stepped a third time, braced and reached, there is absolutely no doubt that he made a move common to the game in my mind.

The "going to the ground" portion of the rule says nothing about a move common to the game. It simply says if the player is going to the ground he has to maintain possession all the way through.

 

[KJJ]

The "going to the ground" portion of the rule says nothing about a move common to the game. It simply says if the player is going to the ground he has to maintain possession all the way through.

Once a receiver is ruled going to the ground that trumps everything. It doesn’t matter what magical things they’re able to do while going to the ground the ball still has to survive the ground. They’ve been emphasizing that ever since the Calvin Johnson play. Dez has repeatedly struggled with that aspect. Even Garrett said Dez has to learn to hang onto the ball through the ground.

 

[MarcusRock]

What did he say?

I’m confused about the question. You asked what observable acts were evident? I’m on my phone and going back to find it is difficult.

Ask me the question. Tell me how Percy and I differ and I’ll answer you.


I really can’t believe how you saw the Pettigrew play.

LOL. You saw the Pettigrew comment but not what I asked otherwise even though I quoted things word for word? Maybe you need to look at it on a desktop.

 

[KJJ]

 

[DogFace]

Hitchens didn't push his arm to get his hand off the face mask. Pettigrew pushed the facemask to get separation then had his arms extended to catch the pass when Hitchens shoves him in the shoulder.

Here

 

[DogFace]

MrC, are you going to answer my question? You're saying percy was wrong with that statement which prompted my question, right?

What was his statement? What did I say to contradict him?

 

[blindzebra]

You acted like the 3 plays were all relevant to the discussion, but one is a situation where the ball never even comes loose, and another is a situation where the player isn't going to the ground at all, despite contact, and the only thing that causes him to go to the ground is a lunge at the end. Accordingly, and as I said, 8.12 is really the only thing you have that is close to an argument, and again, 8.12 actually does require the "going to the ground" to be caused by contact from an opponent, despite your claims to the contrary.

You not seeing the relevance only shows you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to interpreting rules.

There are literally thousands of possible variables that could become a case play to illustrate the catch rules. For whatever reason, the NFL only really covered 3 aspects of the rule. They had a few plays that specifically dealt with a receiver not becoming a runner while going to the ground. Some with a loss of control and one with maintained control. They had one with an element of time completing the catch process ending going to the ground, and one where an act of bracing to lunge ended the catch process to trump going to the ground. That does not mean that those are the only ways that this rule can go, it is giving examples of how to properly rule a catch and receiver to runner.

There are a few absolutes in this case:
1. The rule never explicitly stated that Item 1 takes precedence over the catch process until 2015.
2. The case book plays clearly show that a receiver can become a runner during the going to the ground process.
3. That there is no mention of upright long enough anywhere in the rules until after the Dez play occurred.
4. Blandino was a former comedian and tech guy who never was an on field official in his life.
5. Blandino is no longer the head of officiating, and Goodell has publicly addressed officiating in general, and the catch rule specifically in consecutive years.

What do these absolutes mean?
Whether the party bus and the Detroit game had an affect on the GB game is up for debate, but based on the absolutes Blandino and Steretore mistakenly overturned the catch. It does not matter if it was deliberate, sub-conscience, or a honest mistake, it was incorrect based on the 2014 rules. In 2015 the NFL created a new rule. Blandino in his PC can say what he wants about it being just a clarification, the absolutes say otherwise. Nowhere has the catch rule ever had the concept of upright long enough, never. It became a brand new rule. That is why so many did not trust Blandino and it was just not Cowboys fans. Every call that came up had a new excuse to explain it, and just like the NFL's version of discipline, there was no rhyme or reason to it. But make no mistake that 2015 change was directly tied to the Dez play, and it had nothing to do with clarification, it was a change in rule to fit the call in GB.

 

[KJJ]

FWIW, every Packer fan I have talked too about this says the exact same thing - Dez caught it. I don't live in Texas either.

This backs up what I said earlier. This rule becomes very clear to fans when the ruling goes in their favor. I mentioned the Packers message boards with most agreeing it wasn’t a catch. Here’s another great example listen to the video with a number of Packers fans opinions. They certainly seem to know the rule. Listen to the one Packers fan talking about how the Cowboys should have run the ball trying to pick up the first down in that situation. The only thing he didn’t get right was putting it on Garrett. That was Romo’s decision to go for a 50-50 jump ball in that situation.

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/fox6...ee-reversal-of-dez-bryants-leaping-catch/amp/

 

[MarcusRock]

This is my last response. I think it comes down to intent and poorly written rules.

The intent was that if while going to the ground the player regains balance or braces themselves, then that does complete the process. But simply taking a step or lunging while falling does not. Unless if the player was forced to the ground when they otherwise would have remained upright.

I can truly see how one could come to the conclusion that it was a catch. I concede that. If you mix in all of the various play cases with the actual rules themselves, it gets very convoluted.

But Dez did not regain his balance enough to be considered a runner. If you want to say that the extra step he took and or the lunge he made fulfilled a time aspect, then I think it's a fair case to make due to how the case plays were written.

Out.

I almost agree here except that Dez did not execute a proper lunge. This was Blandino's point on game day and on this explanation provided by KJJ before. The other thing is to pay close attention to how that case play is worded. It says that a lunge is "not part" of the process of the catch. If that case play is to be believed, Dez lunging would have been a get out of jail free card. But as Blandino points out in that link above, Dez did not execute and he actually compares it to a time earlier that season when Dez did execute a proper lunge.

 

[DogFace]

Your emotional reactions to my opinions is overwhelming evidence.

Yes you are funny!!! That makes me happy!!

 

[KJJ]

Yes you are funny!!! That makes me happy!!

At least I found something to cheer you up.

 

[MarcusRock]

Here

Here's better video.

 

[DogFace]

You want it to be about me because I’m in your head. My opinions have a negative affect on you. Most of the posters in this thread have been able to handle my opinions on this issue but you and a couple of others can’t. Your focus is totally on me.

Yes. What are you doing right now? What is your favorite color? Do you like movies about gladiators?