Is Zack Martin’s agent playing serious hardball?

[gjkoeppen]

Thats really not what I'm saying. More to the point, because we have such a terrible front office and seemingly have trouble finding talent past the 1st round they put themselves into this position...teams like NE, Pittsburgh and even Philly are not afraid to walk away...I'd rather keep Martin and replace Tyrone Smith (bad back can not be good for a left tackle)...but as per usual with this team, there are no suitable backups for any position on the O-line. I'm not being negative here at all, just realistic, until we can consistently un-cover talent in the latter rounds it'll be the same old.

Again you use other teams and say they let the best player at their positions walk away. Name all these players they let walk AND were considered the best at their positions. That is a falisey perpetuated by fans who want things to go their way. Real GM's don't let the best at a position just walk.

Also when a team starts to "shop" a player they have just given up the upper hand because EVERY team then knows they want to unload that player and the other teams aren't going to offer the true value for that player. The good deals for players come when a team that wants a player contacts that team, not the other way around.
.

 

[lukin2006]

Again you use other teams and say they let the best player at their positions walk away. Name all these players they let walk AND were considered the best at their positions. That is a falisey perpetuated by fans who want things to go their way. Real GM's don't let the best at a position just walk.

Also when a team starts to "shop" a player they have just given up the upper hand because EVERY team then knows they want to unload that player and the other teams aren't going to offer the true value for that player. The good deals for players come when a team that wants a player contacts that team, not the other way around.
.

I am not going to google players that in their prime that teams walk away from over contract disputes...this fact I can be certain, Dallas will over pay for his services, then he’ll eventually be a cap casualty and the team will be stuck with more dead money.

 

[John813]

Sure you do. But would they be willing to give that up for the best guard in football.

Some may even say irreplaceable.

Maybe if Irsay is piss drunk when whoever calls him.

 

[rynochop]

Some of you guys need to flips the script, if the colts had Martin would you give our top 5 first and second rounders for a guard who wants 14 mil or so a year? The Zoners would storm The Star with pitchforks.
I'd be surprised if the offered a 2nd

 

[BlindFaith]

You are confusing the pats MO of releasing a player a year earlier than a year to late and this applies to players towards the ends of their career. Name a time the pats let the best player in the league at a position at the time walk in the prime of his career? Letting Martin walk with no compensation is one of the dumbest comments I've read here.
.

Nate Solder

 

[LittleD]

Did you guys think Zach was going to give us a hometown discount?

Why? Because he loves wearing the Star or playing for Clappy?

LOL

Zack is going to bend us over

No he's not going to sign a long term contract for our money and he's likely to be our franchise tag player next year.
After that, I would probably try and draft his replacement and let some other team break the bank for him. If he was
a great LT then maybe but, not a guard.

 

[MyFairLady]

He is under contract for this year. He can easily be franchise tagged next year. This is 2 years premature IMHO. Locking up players long term before we need to is an issue with this front office IMHO.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I am not going to google players that in their prime that teams walk away from over contract disputes...this fact I can be certain, Dallas will over pay for his services, then he’ll eventually be a cap casualty and the team will be stuck with more dead money.

First if it happens as often as you claim you shouldn't need to "google" it to name some. Second I have been very strongly against restructuring contracts because that almost always adds to dead money but Martin is going into just his 5th season, just entering his prime, and there is very little chance that when he is resigned or extended to a 4 or 5 year contract that his play falls off that dramatically that the Cowboys would release him because of his salary before the contract was up adding more dead money to the cap.
.

 

[CouchCoach]

Too late now but we should have traded him after his second All Pro season as I wanted to then. He was affordable and would have been a real plum as trade bait and I felt the team would be too top heavy cap wise with what they would have to eventually pay him.

Martin's agent doesn't care if his salary straps the team, and even more so with Collins coming up next, they want the top G salary and most likely will get it. There's no doubting his talent and I'd love to keep that but the only other team to approach this kind of money allocated to the OL since the cap era was KC and they did nothing. Any team that is going to allocate this much cap to the OL better be the best drop dead on drafting team in the league.

I should point out that I am as trade happy as Bilichick though. I would have traded Ware, Romo, Bryant and Martin. All about value to me.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Nate Solder

Nate Solder on THREE different rating lists the highest he rated to all tackles in the NFL was 17th. One had him at #23 and the other just rated the top 10 and he wasn't on it. On the flip side the same sites that rated the tackles also rated the guards and lowest Martin rated was #2 and on 2 of them he was #1. Because Solder was on a Super Bowl team does not just make him the best tackle in the league. Again no team lets the BEST player at his position just walk. Only wannabe GM's/capologists do that.
.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Too late now but we should have traded him after his second All Pro season as I wanted to then. He was affordable and would have been a real plum as trade bait and I felt the team would be too top heavy cap wise with what they would have to eventually pay him.

Martin's agent doesn't care if his salary straps the team, and even more so with Collins coming up next, they want the top G salary and most likely will get it. There's no doubting his talent and I'd love to keep that but the only other team to approach this kind of money allocated to the OL since the cap era was KC and they did nothing. Any team that is going to allocate this much cap to the OL better be the best drop dead on drafting team in the league.

So every time the Cowboys get a player that rates as the best at his position or even in the top 5 your plan is to just get rid of them and let those best in the league players play AGAINST the Cowboys. News flash - teams go looking for players who could become the best during the draft because having more of the best players makes you better than the other teams. Getting rid of them makes your team weaker and another team stronger.
.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Too late now but we should have traded him after his second All Pro season as I wanted to then. He was affordable and would have been a real plum as trade bait and I felt the team would be too top heavy cap wise with what they would have to eventually pay him.

Martin's agent doesn't care if his salary straps the team, and even more so with Collins coming up next, they want the top G salary and most likely will get it. There's no doubting his talent and I'd love to keep that but the only other team to approach this kind of money allocated to the OL since the cap era was KC and they did nothing. Any team that is going to allocate this much cap to the OL better be the best drop dead on drafting team in the league.

I should point out that I am as trade happy as Bilichick though. I would have traded Ware, Romo, Bryant and Martin. All about value to me.

I am so thankful that you have zero to do with who the Cowboys keep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bellacheat has moved a lot of players BUT his ideology is when a player is on the downward side of his career to get rid of the player a year to early opposed to a year to late. Even Bellacheat doesn't rid the pats of players that are rated or considered the best at their positions WHILE they are just coming into THEIR PRIME as with Martin. Getting rid of the best guard in the NFL doesn't help the Cowboys it only hurts them and helps some other team.
.

 

[CouchCoach]

So every time the Cowboys get a player that rates as the best at his position or even in the top 5 your plan is to just get rid of them and let those best in the league players play AGAINST the Cowboys. News flash - teams go looking for players who could become the best during the draft because having more of the best players makes you better than the other teams. Getting rid of them makes your team weaker and another team stronger.
.

On most teams, I would agree but not on this one. Booger favors his stars too much and Belichick only favors one. Look at his trades, players at the top of their game, all with one thing in common....contracts coming up.

Did I say getting rid of them as in cutting them? I said value and what do you think a highly OL challenged team would have given up for the first OL to make All Pro his first season in 70 years? What would a team. like HOU, a QB away, given for Romo? Ware was great, and just about it on our D, except for flashes form Ratliff. What do you think he might have brought on the open trade block?

The tricky part of this is what does this team do with the other side of that trade but they have proven to be good in the 1st round.

 

[CouchCoach]

I am so thankful that you have zero to do with who the Cowboys keep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bellacheat has moved a lot of players BUT his ideology is when a player is on the downward side of his career to get rid of the player a year to early opposed to a year to late. Even Bellacheat doesn't rid the pats of players that are rated or considered the best at their positions WHILE they are just coming into THEIR PRIME as with Martin.
.

Well, I am sure you are not alone in that but I would be a better GM than they have now because my number one priority would be salary balance within the units on the team so that I could better balance the talent and no player would be sacred if that player could bring me more higher end draft picks because the other two things I would do would insure me that I had the best young team in the NFL, the best and highest paid coaching and scouting staff money could buy.

Go ahead and make Martin the highest paid G and then pay Collins a lot after that and when you've got the highest paid OL in the history of the league, you better hope that cap keeps getting bounced every season because you will have a hard time filling out the other side of the team unless you are the best drafting tem in the league and while this one is good in the 1st, after that? Not so much.

 

[gjkoeppen]

On most teams, I would agree but not on this one. Booger favors his stars too much and Belichick only favors one. Look at his trades, players at the top of their game, all with one thing in common....contracts coming up.

Did I say getting rid of them as in cutting them? I said value and what do you think a highly OL challenged team would have given up for the first OL to make All Pro his first season in 70 years? What would a team. like HOU, a QB away, given for Romo? Ware was great, and just about it on our D, except for flashes form Ratliff. What do you think he might have brought on the open trade block?

The tricky part of this is what does this team do with the other side of that trade but they have proven to be good in the 1st round.

Your addition by subtraction ONLY works in your mind. I just laugh at people that suggest the Cowboys should have traded Romo. Romo was the reason the Cowboys got as far as they did yet you think the Cowboys would have been better without Romo and then who would have been the QB without Romo?

I'll remind you of something Gil Brandt said one time. There are 3 different groups of values for players in the NFL. The 1st group is what the team that holds a player and what value they put on him. What they want in trade and what the least they would accept. Group 2 is the other 31 teams and what value they place on the player and what the most they will give up for that player. Group 3 is the fans and what value they put on the player. If it's a player on their team looking to trade away the player they place a higher value than groups 1 and 2 and if the player is on another team they want their team to trade for the value is lower than what groups 1 and 2 have. He said fans seldom if ever place the right value on players because of their bias of wanting their team to get better.
.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Well, I am sure you are not alone in that but I would be a better GM than they have now because my number one priority would be salary balance within the units on the team so that I could better balance the talent and no player would be sacred if that player could bring me more higher end draft picks because the other two things I would do would insure me that I had the best young team in the NFL, the best and highest paid coaching and scouting staff money could buy.

Go ahead and make Martin the highest paid G and then pay Collins a lot after that and when you've got the highest paid OL in the history of the league, you better hope that cap keeps getting bounced every season because you will have a hard time filling out the other side of the team unless you are the best drafting tem in the league and while this one is good in the 1st, after that? Not so much.

i wish I had a dollar for every time I read some fan with ZERO actual experience being an NFL GM claim to be better than whoever who actually has NFL experience. If you watch every episode of ER or MASH do you think you can be a doctor too?
.

 

[millennial_legend]

Larry Allen was physically the strongest player in the NFL but as good as he was, it is impossible to sate with any certainty what would have happened if someone else was playing LG during those years. Also there are no things written in stone. Proof - the ravens had an average QB, Trent Dilfer, and they won a super bowl with him. They won because of such a tough defense and a strong running game not because of the play of Dilfer.
.

They also had an average QB when they won in 2012 and won because of the passing game, defense and grit, Ray Rice was just okay

 

[BlindFaith]

Nate Solder on THREE different rating lists the highest he rated to all tackles in the NFL was 17th. One had him at #23 and the other just rated the top 10 and he wasn't on it. On the flip side the same sites that rated the tackles also rated the guards and lowest Martin rated was #2 and on 2 of them he was #1. Because Solder was on a Super Bowl team does not just make him the best tackle in the league. Again no team lets the BEST player at his position just walk. Only wannabe GM's/capologists do that.
.

Giants thought he was worth being paid as the highest. I'm not saying I agree. Clearly NE didn't either. But they did let him walk.

And again, if it was just him and Smith getting paid, I probably wouldn't have an issue. But we also have Fred and Collins.

You CAN NOT pay them all.

Now if you want to get rid of Fred and keep Martin? I'd be OK with that. I happen to think Fred is over rated anyway. Martin is a far better player.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Giants thought he was worth being paid as the highest. I'm not saying I agree. Clearly NE didn't either. But they did let him walk.

And again, if it was just him and Smith getting paid, I probably wouldn't have an issue. But we also have Fred and Collins.

You CAN NOT pay them all.

Now if you want to get rid of Fred and keep Martin? I'd be OK with that. I happen to think Fred is over rated anyway. Martin is a far better player.

Or the Cowboys can have their line signing Martin. Some teams have sunk a ton of money in their defensive line, the Cowboys have chosen to do that on the offensive line. At this point, the way Collins played tackle last year only playing above average for the last 3 or 4 games, he's going to have to show a LOT more to be considered to get that big contract you're talking about. Collins best year as a pro by far was the year he filled in for Leary at LG. The old adage of defense wins championships is true more often than not but there have been some SB winners that their strength was their offense and not their defense. As long as a team has a defense that is adequate and have a strong offense they can win a SB.
.

 

[BlindFaith]

Or the Cowboys can have their line signing Martin. Some teams have sunk a ton of money in their defensive line, the Cowboys have chosen to do that on the offensive line. At this point, the way Collins played tackle last year only playing above average for the last 3 or 4 games, he's going to have to show a LOT more to be considered to get that big contract you're talking about. Collins best year as a pro by far was the year he filled in for Leary at LG. The old adage of defense wins championships is true more often than not but there have been some SB winners that their strength was their offense and not their defense. As long as a team has a defense that is adequate and have a strong offense they can win a SB.
.

What do you mean when? Collins is the third highest paid RT in the league right now.