What is Earl Thomas Now Really?

[Verdict]

It has to factor into his own asking price. He can't ask someone yo pay him the moon and give up a quality draft pick to do it.

You can either have reasonable expectations for a contract extension, or you can be stuck playing out the last year of your deal in Seattle. But you can't have it both ways.

That's true. That's where the pressure helps us.

 

[Verdict]

You talk as if you’re the smartest man in the room, make points everyone understands inherently, and rail against straw man arguments no one made.

I don’t think anyone wants to bring Earl in at all costs, but again there is a middle ground between spending irresponsibly and only shopping in thrift stores and yard sales. Sometimes tho you find yourself staring at a classic car sitting under a tarp.

And we found ourselves in our current situation not only by spending on Dez, but also restructuring too often. Safeties don’t cost as much as wrs and the good ones don’t become available all that often

Explaining my point precisely isn't being condescending. It's explaining a point. Some people on here do not communicate very precisely as a general rule.

Cap space is a finite resource. It doesn't matter what the name of the player is, then numbers matter. Many people would draw the lines in a different place. That's reasonable.

What's not reasonable are the simpletons who say we should "pay a player" whatever he wants because "he has earned it" or something like that and then ***** and whine when that bad contract comes back to roost.

Bad contracts happen. There is risk inherent in every contract. It's unavoidable.

On the other hand if you sign a contract that everything has to work out "perfect" just for that contract to be an "OK value" get ready, because most of the time the team is going to take it in the shorts on that contract at some point.

 

[Verdict]

Bill Polian was on the radio yesterday or the day before and he made a very interesting comment. He said that GMs today model the guaranteed portions of contracts and terms based on at least 1 year of dead money, that some GMs will use a 2 year dead money model, but none will do a deal on a 3-year dead money model. In other words, if ET gets a 5 year deal, the expectation is that the final 1 or 2 years will be a dead-money cap hit. Doesn't mean it will be for sure, just what they're basing a reasonable contact on.

Yeah. It usually happens that way. That's why we were in such bad cap shape for so long.

You need to hit on your draft picks and make most of your contracts play all the way through.

 

[kskboys]

Explaining my point precisely isn't being condescending. It's explaining a point. Some people on here do not communicate very precisely as a general rule.

Cap space is a finite resource. It doesn't matter what the name of the player is, then numbers matter. Many people would draw the lines in a different place. That's reasonable.

What's not reasonable are the simpletons who say we should "pay a player" whatever he wants because "he has earned it" or something like that and then ***** and whine when that bad contract comes back to roost.

Bad contracts happen. There is risk inherent in every contract. It's unavoidable.

On the other hand if you sign a contract that everything has to work out "perfect" just for that contract to be an "OK value" get ready, because most of the time the team is going to take it in the shorts on that contract at some point.

And they always whine then and have no comprehension that "just paying him" is why we got bounced out of the playoffs.

 

[Verdict]

Same here.

And one other factor to me? Reputation.

Earl Thomas has the reputation. And the Pro Bowl accolades and skins on the wall. Even the best quarterbacks will think about testing him, for fear of getting burned. Xavier Woods is an unknown quantity at this point. And that essentially invites quarterbacks to test him.

Reputation doesn't stop a ball from being caught, my friend. Performance does.

Dez had the reputation. He just couldn't perform anymore. His repuatation didn't help him with his drops.

 

[Verdict]

And they always whine then and have no comprehension that "just paying him" is why we got bounced out of the playoffs.

That's right. Not everyone here does that but the ones that do are dumber than a box of rocks.

 

[JustChip]

Yeah. It usually happens that way. That's why we were in such bad cap shape for so long.

You need to hit on your draft picks and make most of your contracts play all the way through.

Yep. The real problem is if you do a 5 year contract based on a model that has 1 year of dead money, but the player flames out for whatever reason after year 1 or 2. That's even more exacerbated if the contract is a skill player. Just image if Cousins has a Shazier moment this year - the Vikings will be hosed for years.

 

[Verdict]

Please. Our cap is good shape these days. As with any quality player that you don't draft, you will pay market value for them, if you want them. I am not a big fan of FA spending as a rule, but sometimes, the fit, the player and the time just makes a lot of sense. This is one of those times. He instantly makes this D a better defense. Which is what the goal is, I thought, to put the best team we can out on the field.. But maybe I am mistaken, maybe its better to have a bunch of roll over cap and rookies playing so we can continue to buy nice things.

So you think Earl Thomas will perform at the level he is right now, or better for 4 or 5 years? I dont.

 

[Verdict]

Yep. The real problem is if you do a 5 year contract based on a model that has 1 year of dead money, but the player flames out for whatever reason after year 1 or 2. That's even more exacerbated if the contract is a skill player. Just image if Cousins has a Shazier moment this year - the Vikings will be hosed for years.

Yes. That's an enormous level of risk. It's unavoidable at QB unless he is on a rookie contract. But if you have several of those deals one of them is eventually going to catch up with you.

 

[Stash]

That's true, Stash. Dak will get paid next year which is going to evaporate some of that available cap. It won't wipe it out next year, but as time goes on from the extensions of Dak and presumably Zeke, and Martin, etc we need to keep an eye on the future of the cap.

I'm not against adding him. I am definitely not in favor of another ****ty Dez contract and yes I realize there is something in between.

Sounds fair.

 

[Stash]

Reputation doesn't stop a ball from being caught, my friend. Performance does.

Dez had the reputation. He just couldn't perform anymore. His repuatation didn't help him with his drops.

No, but I think it does make a coordinator or quarterback think twice about where he's throwing the ball, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Top level Safeties are great into atheir 30's. Polamalu made a pro bowl at 32, Reed made one at 34, Lynch made one at 36! Dawkins at 38! Rod Woodson made one at 37, Carnell Lake made the pro bowl at 32, Darren Woodson made the pr uh.... played until he was 34.

If you're a safety who's skillset is intelligence, play recognition, and jack of all trades, then you will be good as long as your QB is. I bet 38 year old Dawkins couldn't run a sub-5 40, but that's not his job. Be smart, react to what you're seeing, make the play.

I fully believe in 5 years we'll be hearing about Earl Thomas being the best safety in football, and how he's built a hall of fame career just off of his after-30 seasons. I would trade a 3 and a player for him instantly even with Philly's cap problems. Give him 5 yr 50 mil, you won't find a better place to spend that 10 mil a year. He'll win you the games you're losing.

If you told me you'd give me a quality player replacement and equal draft stock for Fletcher Cox, I'd say maybe. If you said that for Ertz, for Lane Johnson, for Brandon Graham, I'd think about it. You could do a lot with 1's and 2's, and that replacement player makes it an easy transition. If you offered that for Malcolm Jenkins I would say no. Because we cannot replace Malcolm Jenkins.

"Fletcher Cox? I am aghast!" You might say. There are plenty of pretty good, pro bowl, moderately dominant DT's in the NFL. There's no such thing as a fringe-pro bowl safety. You have reliable, maybe even underrated starters, and you have all-pros. There is no in between.. Additionally, every single star safety has played on amazing teams. Look at that list of old guys I made. How many didn't play in MULTIPLE championship games. How many didn't play in Super Bowls? That's not a coincidence, they are the reason. Malcolm Jenkins is the reason. Earl Thomas is the reason. And he'll be the reason for the Lions, or the Bengals, or the Dolphins... whatever team comes to their senses and ponies up. Dallas has regretted a lot of moves they've made that were mistakes. This will be the one you publicly refused to make that everyone will bring up every time you fall short.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

So you think Earl Thomas will perform at the level he is right now, or better for 4 or 5 years? I dont.

if that is how we decide on who to keep or get, we should go ahead and cut Zeke, he prob wont be playing at the same level in 5 years that he is today, so what's the point of having him on the team!! The fact is that ET makes this a better team today. And would make a legit contender, imo and would provide much needed veteran presence for our young DBs. Yes it would cost a few bucks but it wouldn't prevent us from getting better next year or the next. We wouldn't be mortgaging the future to acquire him at all.

 

[Verdict]

Top level Safeties are great into atheir 30's. Polamalu made a pro bowl at 32, Reed made one at 34, Lynch made one at 36! Dawkins at 38! Rod Woodson made one at 37, Carnell Lake made the pro bowl at 32, Darren Woodson made the pr uh.... played until he was 34.

If you're a safety who's skillset is intelligence, play recognition, and jack of all trades, then you will be good as long as your QB is. I bet 38 year old Dawkins couldn't run a sub-5 40, but that's not his job. Be smart, react to what you're seeing, make the play.

I fully believe in 5 years we'll be hearing about Earl Thomas being the best safety in football, and how he's built a hall of fame career just off of his after-30 seasons. I would trade a 3 and a player for him instantly even with Philly's cap problems. Give him 5 yr 50 mil, you won't find a better place to spend that 10 mil a year. He'll win you the games you're losing.

If you told me you'd give me a quality player replacement and equal draft stock for Fletcher Cox, I'd say maybe. If you said that for Ertz, for Lane Johnson, for Brandon Graham, I'd think about it. You could do a lot with 1's and 2's, and that replacement player makes it an easy transition. If you offered that for Malcolm Jenkins I would say no. Because we cannot replace Malcolm Jenkins.

"Fletcher Cox? I am aghast!" You might say. There are plenty of pretty good, pro bowl, moderately dominant DT's in the NFL. There's no such thing as a fringe-pro bowl safety. You have reliable, maybe even underrated starters, and you have all-pros. There is no in between.. Additionally, every single star safety has played on amazing teams. Look at that list of old guys I made. How many didn't play in MULTIPLE championship games. How many didn't play in Super Bowls? That's not a coincidence, they are the reason. Malcolm Jenkins is the reason. Earl Thomas is the reason. And he'll be the reason for the Lions, or the Bengals, or the Dolphins... whatever team comes to their senses and ponies up. Dallas has regretted a lot of moves they've made that were mistakes. This will be the one you publicly refused to make that everyone will bring up every time you fall short.

That sounds great. How many fell off the cliff?

 

[Verdict]

if that is how we decide on who to keep or get, we should go ahead and cut Zeke, he prob wont be playing at the same level in 5 years that he is today, so what's the point of having him on the team!! The fact is that ET makes this a better team today. And would make a legit contender, imo and would provide much needed veteran presence for our young DBs. Yes it would cost a few bucks but it wouldn't prevent us from getting better next year or the next. We wouldn't be mortgaging the future to acquire him at all.

You have to consider that when you enter into a contract. $15 million per season is not a few bucks. It all depends on how much he is wanting for how long and the guarantee.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

You have to consider that when you enter into a contract. $15 million per season is not a few bucks. It all depends on how much he is wanting for how long and the guarantee.

They are not going to pay him QB money. That's insane. He is currently at 8.5 and wants an extension. I would bet 4/40 with 20 guaranteed would get it done. It would really be a 2 year 20 million contract for one of if not the best Safety in the game.

 

[Verdict]

They are not going to pay him QB money. That's insane. He is currently at 8.5 and wants an extension. I would bet 4/40 with 20 guaranteed would get it done. It would really be a 2 year 20 million contract for one of if not the best Safety in the game.

That's within reason. I'm not sure he will take that.

I think whatever it is the Cowboys have already agreed on the salary and the draft pick compensation is the hold up.

 

[Proof]

You have to consider that when you enter into a contract. $15 million per season is not a few bucks. It all depends on how much he is wanting for how long and the guarantee.

Elite safeties ? Bob sanders? Seriously. Do you have someone in mind? The best guys seem to carry their talents past thirty.

 

[Blackspider214]

I don't think Earl Thomas is enough of a factor to assume that he will put us over the hump. He could be an impactful player for a time. But safety isn't like QB.

This is false. Seattle won their Super Bowl with a QB similar to Dak. Why? Their defense. Specifically whom? Their safety play. It's what makes a secondary. You have poor safeties, doesn't matter what corners you have. Legion of Boom was because of Earl and Chancellor. They allowed those corners to flourish.

The fact we don't put any value on DT or safety is why our defense lets us down year after year.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

That sounds great. How many fell off the cliff?

Perennially all pro that fell off the cliff by 30? Hold on, I'm still looking for one.