Question for the Dak Detractors

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The intention is for this not to be another typical Dak thread. This is for the contingent fans that are ready to move on from Prescott as the QB of the Dallas Cowboys. Instead of debating Dak’s merits (or lack thereof) again, let’s operate under the supposition that we’re moving on, as that is the cry from so many.

So, the question is how do you do so and who is the target. Obviously the two options that exist are free agency and the draft.

2019 Free agents QBs: ................ 2019 probable Draft QBs:

Tyrod Taylor ........................ Justin Herbert, Oregon.
Josh McCown ........................ Drew Lock, Missouri.
Teddy Bridgewater ........................ Will Grier, West Virginia.
Ryan Fitzpatrick ........................ Dwayne Haskins, Ohio State.
Robert Griffin III ........................ Ryan Finley, NC State.
Derek Anderson ........................ Clayton Thorson, Northwestern.
Geno Smith ........................ Jarrett Stidham, Auburn.
Brock Osweiler ........................ Tyree Jackson, Buffalo.
Matt Barkley
Tom Savage
Taylor Heinicke
Brett Hundley
Trevor Siemian


Obviously some of the Draft picks will be out of reach without our #1 pick. Additionally, you can pretty much guarantee you’re not going to win a championship with a rookie. It’s an investment that takes time.

On the FA front, there may be a few QBs that are available with a trade. Possible Carr, maybe Winston.

So what’s the plan ladies & gentlemen?

I think we will end up at 8-8 this season. but given the improvements Jones sees from the offense, it will make him believe that maybe another weapon can put us over the top (he has had those dreams before). so realistically Dak is here to stay at least another year. Also, I think Garrett is here another year, but Linehan and his protégé Moore might be axed.

Dak has enough to tease you, but not enough to guarantee you....he is a tease. His problems are mechanical and mental and its not easily fixed. Throwing with such bad footwork and inconsistent follow through in his third year in the league is baffling. perhaps a better QB coach, with a focus on being consistent with his footwork and throws. The results are that he doesn't trust his own arm and accuracy and thus has to have a wide separation by the WRs for him to make throws and thus he doesn't throw with anticipation.... some of these are fixable if he had a good QB coach to work with him. I am surprised he didn't realize it himself and get his coach in the off season and work on it.

The mental part is tougher. He doesn't feel pressure very well and his first instinct is to pull the ball down and run. he also doesn't seem to go through his progression. he also doesn't read defenses and make line adjustments very well. coaching can only help that so much.....he is in his third year and he still doesn't process things fast. with that said, earlier in the year he was staring his recievers down...but past couple of games he seems to be using his eyes to manipulate the defense.

lastly, I think he is in the wrong system. He would be a better fit for a west coast type offense, that focuses on short passes and recievers on the move compared to the timing based offense that garrett and linehan run. He also throws better on the move, so moving him around will put him in his comfort zone. Romo and Aikman were perfect for the timing offense. Dak is not.

we will with one more year of Garrett and Dak and probably (hopefully) see a new OC and QB coach.

 

[Nightman]

If I could sign Bridgewater, have him compete with Dak and then flip him for a 3rd round pick, that would a pretty big win for this franchise.

The Jets have a young guy who they think will be their franchise QB and then they were able to turn their FA signed QB and a 6th round pick into a 3rd round pick?

That's pretty damn good.

You have to get him first......that is 10m and a Comp pick.....no thanks

 

[CouchCoach]

The guy literally said that people who criticize Dak are just idiotic Romo lovers.

Of course the notion that Dak is a middling QB is an opinion. But it's certainly not illogical or invalid. It's a perfectly acceptable position that a lot of people outside of Cowboys land that wouldn't necessarily have the inherent biases we have as fans have. Are they all Romo lovers too?

That's the point. It's perfectly fair and logical to think Dak just isn't a great QB based on his play, etc. What's illogical and stupid and some of the dumbest stuff uttered on this board is chalking up Dak criticism to things like being bitter Romo got benched.

There is this myth here that one can't be a fan of both QB's and that all Romorooters love Dak because he's not Romo and the Romolovers hate Dak because he took Romo's job.

On the old site, it was pretty bad. Many were pissed because they felt Romo would have beaten the Packers and really gave Dak no credit for an impressive come back. When it came to Romo, the debate could easily get heated.

There were a lot like me on the old forum but we seemed to take a backseat when the fur began to fly. They had to create a sub forum and most of the time outs were because the arguments got personal when Romo was the subject. I never got that, he was a good QB with faults but he was my favorite Cowboy QB for all time for the following. I never saw any DC QB that could make me go "how in the hell did he just do that and why in the hell did he just do that" so close together.

With Dak, I am undecided but then I saw most of his college games when he was a Jr and Sr so I've seen a lot of him and it looks about the same. I don't know enough about the mechanics and coaching QB's to know if he can get past his inconsistencies but when accuracy is the issue, I have never seen that improve at the pro level. OC's don't design their schemes and patterns around the QB's shortcomings because the other coaches are too good. When they use that phrase "he can make all the throws" they mean with consistency because OC's cannot have their patterns limited by a QB's inability to deliver.

The slant was meat and potatoes for Aikman but not Romo. He could only hit that with the slower Witten and throwing the ball at him, not in front of him. The slant was a 50/50 ball for Romo. And that looks to be the case for Dak as well.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Get me in the backfield heck I would do a better job....I mean whats so difficult about handing the ball off to Zeke..???

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

And why did they trade him?

Because they were turning over the franchise to their first round QB in Darnold.

And got a 3rd rounder out of a guy they signed for pennies just two months prior.

Jets trading him for that high of value is a positive not negative

 

[G2]

There is nothing wrong with claiming Romo is a better QB than Aikman. The only dumb claim is to act like one is definitively better than the other.

That's your opinion.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Lol, shutup.

 

[charron]

As a Dak detractor here is what I would do.

1) No extension for Dak. He plays 2019 under his current deal.
2) I draft someone in the 2nd or 3rd round - Finley, maybe a Grier (if they fall as both might get overvalued and end up in Rd 1). The kid from Duke is another raw kid that might be there in the 3rd round.
3) I investigate what it could cost for Bridgewater. No other FA makes sense.
4) I bring in a legit OC that can work with a QB like Dak. Linehan and Moore get crap canned.

I am basically carpet bombing the QB position this offseason, if I can.

This right here. What were looking for is someone who can develop into an average qb, someone with some mobility like Dak would be great.

 

[cowboy_ron]

The intention is for this not to be another typical Dak thread. This is for the contingent fans that are ready to move on from Prescott as the QB of the Dallas Cowboys. Instead of debating Dak’s merits (or lack thereof) again, let’s operate under the supposition that we’re moving on, as that is the cry from so many.

So, the question is how do you do so and who is the target. Obviously the two options that exist are free agency and the draft.

2019 Free agents QBs: ................ 2019 probable Draft QBs:

Tyrod Taylor ........................ Justin Herbert, Oregon.
Josh McCown ........................ Drew Lock, Missouri.
Teddy Bridgewater ........................ Will Grier, West Virginia.
Ryan Fitzpatrick ........................ Dwayne Haskins, Ohio State.
Robert Griffin III ........................ Ryan Finley, NC State.
Derek Anderson ........................ Clayton Thorson, Northwestern.
Geno Smith ........................ Jarrett Stidham, Auburn.
Brock Osweiler ........................ Tyree Jackson, Buffalo.
Matt Barkley
Tom Savage
Taylor Heinicke
Brett Hundley
Trevor Siemian


Obviously some of the Draft picks will be out of reach without our #1 pick. Additionally, you can pretty much guarantee you’re not going to win a championship with a rookie. It’s an investment that takes time.

On the FA front, there may be a few QBs that are available with a trade. Possible Carr, maybe Winston.

So what’s the plan ladies & gentlemen?

I wouldn't take any of the FA's over Dak.........any of them would require better coaching so I would just stick with Dak and hopefully get better coaching to work with him..........Brady, Rodgers, or even Mahomes would do any better with the incompetent coaching we currently have.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

You have to get him first......that is 10m and a Comp pick.....no thanks

Wait what...? Jets didnt sign him for $10M, and the $6M contract he did get would negate, what? A 5th or 6th? That's assuming you are even gaining a comp pick.

Then flip that for a non-comp 3rd? That's a no brainer not a no thanks.

 

[BigD_95]

If Bridgewater didn't cost a ton I would bring him in to compete with Dak.

That being said I think Dak is a franchise QB and needs more weapons. Funny guys like Wentz only play bad because they don't have weapons and then the team gets him a number 1 receiver and things change. Goff is another example with coaching being the best change for him and drafting a guy like Kupp.

Not sure why Dak isn't afforded the same as other QBs and it's just him as being the problem.

You do realize Goff and Wentz were 1 & 2 picks in the draft. All scouting had them as clear top QB with high ceilings.

Dak was a low end QB with a low celling.

Funning thing is all the scouting reports on all 3 of these guys are pretty accurate.

This is pretty much Dak even in his 3rd year. :

Accuracy on intermediate and deep throws dropped sharply. Pocket poise has been compromised. Hyper aware of pressure around him and lacks awareness to slide and find temporary shelter to make throw. Concern over pressure too often trumps ability to get through progressions. Must speed up the pace of his reads. Footwork is a mess. Slight stride onto stiff upper leg with little weight shift. Restricted follow through and too often tries to muscle throws with upper body. Throws to target rather than leading or throwing them open on short/intermediate throws. Too respectful of underneath coverage and must be more willing to challenge the defense. Needs to improve anticipation.

Hard to find an NFL comp for Prescott because he's built like Donovan McNabb, but lacks McNabb's ability and polish. Prescott has NFL size, mobility and enough arm, but the tape shows a player who must improve his mechanics, poise and quickness through his progressions if he is to become a full-time starter in the NFL. There are absolutely draftable traits and upside, but he will need extended work to smooth out his flaws. Until then, a team would be wise to utilize him on short-yardage packages.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

You do realize Goff and Wentz were 1 & 2 picks in the draft. All scouting had them as clear top QB with high ceilings.

Dak was a low end QB with a low celling.

Funning thing is all the scouting reports on all 3 of these guys are pretty accurate.

This is pretty much Dak even in his 3rd year. :

Accuracy on intermediate and deep throws dropped sharply. Pocket poise has been compromised. Hyper aware of pressure around him and lacks awareness to slide and find temporary shelter to make throw. Concern over pressure too often trumps ability to get through progressions. Must speed up the pace of his reads. Footwork is a mess. Slight stride onto stiff upper leg with little weight shift. Restricted follow through and too often tries to muscle throws with upper body. Throws to target rather than leading or throwing them open on short/intermediate throws. Too respectful of underneath coverage and must be more willing to challenge the defense. Needs to improve anticipation.

Hard to find an NFL comp for Prescott because he's built like Donovan McNabb, but lacks McNabb's ability and polish. Prescott has NFL size, mobility and enough arm, but the tape shows a player who must improve his mechanics, poise and quickness through his progressions if he is to become a full-time starter in the NFL. There are absolutely draftable traits and upside, but he will need extended work to smooth out his flaws. Until then, a team would be wise to utilize him on short-yardage packages.

Scouting reports can be thrown out the window at this point.

Draft status at this point means nothing. Also low ceiling has already been proven wrong by 2016.

 

[Number1]

If Bridgewater didn't cost a ton I would bring him in to compete with Dak.

That being said I think Dak is a franchise QB and needs more weapons. Funny guys like Wentz only play bad because they don't have weapons and then the team gets him a number 1 receiver and things change. Goff is another example with coaching being the best change for him and drafting a guy like Kupp.

Not sure why Dak isn't afforded the same as other QBs and it's just him as being the problem.

because he's a R4 pick by JJ at QB of the Boys ... that's a hard tag to deal with

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Not sure he can get that much without having played, but I think it will be more than the $6 mil he's playing under.

And then there is the question: is he an upgrade?

His last full season numbers were worse than Dak's 2017.

So Denim, I was completely unaware of this but the Saints have already laid the ground work on a big money extension for Bridgewater.

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/sa...aints-rework-teddy-bridgewaters-contract/amp/

The two voidable years are for
2019- $23.355M
2020- $23.355M

 

[Idgit]

The resources it'd take to replace Dak, and the time it'd take for a rookie to come up to speed since there aren't legitimate FA options available are pretty high. I'd rather spend those same resources bringing in playmakers at other positions--TE and WR and building the team around what we've got. Dak's a guy who's already proven you can win with if you give him the tools. And he's a fantastic leader. He's not an elite QB, but he's played at near that level at times when he's had the protection and the playmakers.

Basically, it's easier to upgrade the protection and the receivers than it is to upgrade the QB. You've got a defense you can win with, and a running game. You're QB can play in the right conditions. It's cheaper to try to recreate the right conditions around him than it is to bolt and try to find and develop a guy who can deliver in the areas where Dak can't.

 

[Denim Chicken]

So Denim, I was completely unaware of this but the Saints have already laid the ground work on a big money extension for Bridgewater.

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/sa...aints-rework-teddy-bridgewaters-contract/amp/

The two voidable years are for
2019- $23.355M
2020- $23.355M

That's interesting, especially since Brees is having one of his best years. You gotta think it only makes sense if Brees hangs them up after this season.

 

[BigD_95]

Scouting reports can be thrown out the window at this point.

Draft status at this point means nothing. Also low ceiling has already been proven wrong by 2016.

Proven wrong? I think it has been proven right. All the issues with Dak in the scouting department are still there. These are the same weaknesses we see every time he takes the field. Which leads to sacks and throws that are only 10 yards or under.

poor accuracy on intermediate and deep throws
Concern over pressure too often trumps ability to get through progressions
Must speed up the pace of his reads
too often tries to muscle throws with upper body
Throws to target rather than leading
must be more willing to challenge the defense
Needs to improve anticipation
must improve his mechanics, poise and quickness through his progressions

 

[Sydla]

The resources it'd take to replace Dak, and the time it'd take for a rookie to come up to speed since there aren't legitimate FA options available are pretty high. I'd rather spend those same resources bringing in playmakers at other positions--TE and WR and building the team around what we've got. Dak's a guy who's already proven you can win with if you give him the tools. And he's a fantastic leader. He's not an elite QB, but he's played at near that level at times when he's had the protection and the playmakers.

Basically, it's easier to upgrade the protection and the receivers than it is to upgrade the QB. You've got a defense you can win with, and a running game. You're QB can play in the right conditions. It's cheaper to try to recreate the right conditions around him than it is to bolt and try to find and develop a guy who can deliver in the areas where Dak can't.

It’s easier to upgrade all the pieces around a QB over the QB?

Not sure about that. And how is upgrading the “conditions” cheaper?

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Proven wrong? I think it has been proven right. All the issues with Dak in the scouting department are still there. These are the same weaknesses we see every time he takes the field. Which leads to sacks and throws that are only 10 yards or under.

poor accuracy on intermediate and deep throws
Concern over pressure too often trumps ability to get through progressions
Must speed up the pace of his reads
too often tries to muscle throws with upper body
Throws to target rather than leading
must be more willing to challenge the defense
Needs to improve anticipation
must improve his mechanics, poise and quickness through his progressions

It was proven wrong in 2016, like I said initially.

 

[CowboyRoy]

The intention is for this not to be another typical Dak thread. This is for the contingent fans that are ready to move on from Prescott as the QB of the Dallas Cowboys. Instead of debating Dak’s merits (or lack thereof) again, let’s operate under the supposition that we’re moving on, as that is the cry from so many.

So, the question is how do you do so and who is the target. Obviously the two options that exist are free agency and the draft.

2019 Free agents QBs: ................ 2019 probable Draft QBs:

Tyrod Taylor ........................ Justin Herbert, Oregon.
Josh McCown ........................ Drew Lock, Missouri.
Teddy Bridgewater ........................ Will Grier, West Virginia.
Ryan Fitzpatrick ........................ Dwayne Haskins, Ohio State.
Robert Griffin III ........................ Ryan Finley, NC State.
Derek Anderson ........................ Clayton Thorson, Northwestern.
Geno Smith ........................ Jarrett Stidham, Auburn.
Brock Osweiler ........................ Tyree Jackson, Buffalo.
Matt Barkley
Tom Savage
Taylor Heinicke
Brett Hundley
Trevor Siemian


Obviously some of the Draft picks will be out of reach without our #1 pick. Additionally, you can pretty much guarantee you’re not going to win a championship with a rookie. It’s an investment that takes time.

On the FA front, there may be a few QBs that are available with a trade. Possible Carr, maybe Winston.

So what’s the plan ladies & gentlemen?

How do you move on from a QB that hasn't even played 3 full seasons yet?

Its EXACTLY as the Dak supporters have said over and over again. Get the kid better Oline play and someone to throw to and he will get back to his 2016 form. Not there yet, but the Oline has played better.