PFT: Gregory was not lined up in the neutral zone

[aikemirv]

Kamara ducked down when Smith was already leaning in for the hit, that one was on him.

Nah, he will be fined, he launched and went high - it is a no brainer - 20 - 25K would not surprise me at all.

 

[InTheZone]

I'm not one to usually claim the fix is in, or what have you, but that referee sounded absolutely heart broken when he had to confirm the Jourdan Lewis interception on the field.

better not let Marcus see this, he'll be debunking every conspiracy he can make up. lol

edit: oops, just scrolled back to see it's already happened...

 

[aikemirv]

Doesn't matter if it's across the ball. If the Center moved the ball back you still can't advance forward into what was the marked neutral zone. Even if the blue line is accurate, Gregory's head is in that blue zone too. Again, he's the ONLY one over the 50 on defense at all. Isn't that right?

Sorry, but there is no blue line on the field. The ref can only go by the ball to determine neutral zone, not the original placement. That would be impossible.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Thanks Mahatma Ghandi but you are the guy that calls Dak moving in the pocket "spazzing out".

And you describe what Dak does as simply "moving in the pocket."

 

[MarcusRock]

Lol don't look at the blue line or the white. Look at ball. The ball is where the blue line is

And Gregory's head is more than half way across the blue line. Neutral zone infraction then? Yes.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

The blue line is put there by the broadcast. It has nothing to do with what the official sees on the field. The official is going by the point of the ball, which is not all the way out to the edge of the blue line.

Looking at the point of the ball and Gregory's helmet, can you say with certainty that he's across it?

There is some forced perspective here because we're not looking straight down the line of scrimmage the way the official was. Look at the point of the star and then look at the underside of the star, which lines up with the point. Is the distance between the underside of the point to the ball less than the distance from the point of the star to the crown of Gregory's helmet? Even with that it's hard to tell because the camera is pointing down at the players instead of straight across the neutral zone.

As I said, it's close, and if it's close you don't make that call. If officials made every close call, games would last for days. It is their job to ignore the inconsequential ones. If you don't view this as inconsequential, that's your prerogative.

You don't need to cross the ball to encroach into the zone.

 

[Vandyr]

And Gregory's head is more than half way across the blue line. Neutral zone infraction then? Yes.

The blue line is put there by the network, has zero bearing on this discussion. The placement of the ball is the only thing that matters.

 

[MarcusRock]

Except per the link above, "The neutral zone is, per the official rulebook, the “space between the forward and backward points of the ball (planes) and extends to the sidelines.” What is missing in this though is how the movement of the ball by the center after he grasps it affects the neutral zone. E.g., is it based on where the ball original was placed by the officials, or is it where it "rests" after the center positions it. I'm just guessing, but it would seem it would have to be the later simply because it's the only visible spot when the ball is snapped. If so, Gregory isn't lined up in the neutral zone.

But the nose of the ball lines up with the front of the blue line and Gregory is half way across the blue line. The only logical conclusion is, he's lined up in the neutral zone.

 

[MarcusRock]

Looks very close. The other players on Dallas are off the ball quit a bit. I don’t think it should have been called.

Gregory being so far ahead of the other players is probably what made them scrutinize it more.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

And Gregory's head is more than half way across the blue line. Neutral zone infraction then? Yes.

These guys are simply making it up as they go. First, it was "his hands behind the line!" Now it's "his heads not completely past the zone/ball!"

 

[Kaiser]

And you describe what Dak does as simply "moving in the pocket."

True, but that's only because I'm not a hater.

 

[MarcusRock]

Not one person here is against "right calls". What we are against is the inconsistency of the refs to call them equally for both teams. The Saints were lined up in the neutral zone the next time their D was on the field...no call...

There were missed calls all over the place last night. This was not one of them. My point in all the whiny threads is that Dallas is no special target. Spit happens.

 

[Kaiser]

The blue line is put there by the network, has zero bearing on this discussion. The placement of the ball is the only thing that matters.

It will take him until next week to figure that out.

 

[cern]

in the grand scheme of things, what difference does it make now whether or not Gregory was lined up in the neutral zone???????????????

 

[MarcusRock]

It doesn't mean he made the right call. It doesn't mean he didn't make the right call.

It seems to justify it in your mind, but the visual evidence is unclear, which is why I believe the call shouldn't have been made. Officials keep their flags in their pocket on holding calls where they don't feel that it affected the play. (Same with other penalties, such as allowing a lot of contact by defensive backs.) If Gregory was in the neutral zone, it was not by enough to affect the play.

If this were the other way around, this would be "proof" that it was correct. It just changes based on what people really, really want to have happen.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

True, but that's only because I'm not a hater.

Well, that's Spaztastic!

 

[MarcusRock]

That's correct. He has to be beyond the tip of the ball. I'm not sure I was clear on that earlier.

Which is evident in the picture. There's nothing "unclear" about it. The ball touches the front end of the blue line and Gregory is half way over the blue line. It's there for those who want to see it and can admit their initial position might not be correct. But fandom can be emotional.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

It will take him until next week to figure that out.

Lol, and clearly no amount of time and effort spent can adequately educate you. Even when there's verifiable evidence and info (NFL rulebook) presented before you it's "ugh, ugh, I just don't wanna see it."

 

[big dog cowboy]

Didn't read the entire thread...basically because there is no need. As someone who officiated football at low levels before dirt was invented...and basketball up through D3 college...I can tell you it is incredibly difficult to be biased. Not saying it doesn't happen...just that it is A LOT harder than people think it is. Primarily because of the time, experience and skill it takes to reach even the small college level...much less the professional level...when the action starts you're instincts and training take over. You would be surprised how difficult it is to call a "make up call" when you know you kicked a call previously.

Even the rules guru last night said the crew was having a bad game, and they were. It happens. Trust me, when it is happening to you (and the crew) you know it and most of the time there isn't a thing you can do about it. It's like it's contagious and incurable. In those games, the harder you focus and try the more you screw up. Now, pre-snap penalties in football are different because you have time to really look and think. But in the case of lining up in the neutral zone you also have the issue of having to create that imaginary line...and when you are off, that line keeps disappearing in your minds eye. In a tight game you never want to give a team an advantage by missing something (and they missed a lot last night) so you sometimes give the other team an advantage by default.

During the training for both sports there were two givens the trainers used: 1 - Every time you throw your flag (or blow your whistle) half the people watching are going to think you're an idiot. 2 - Remember, during the games you feel like you suck, you suck for both sides.

OK...not very comforting, but the truth.

This is a good post. The refs can always pick up a flag though. So if they think the infraction they see is borderline they can always confer with another ref.

 

[MarcusRock]

If PFT says it wasn't, it wasn't

Are you saying you never have to investigate anything for yourself if the media does it for you? Wow.