An Honest Question About Dak

[percyhoward]

Last 15 games

1 Wilson 114.6
2 Brees 111.3
3 Ryan 107.9
4 Mahomes 105.8
5 Wentz 103.7
6 Watson 102.5
7 Prescott 99.9
8 Cousins 99.7
9 Trubisky 99.5
10 Luck 99.4

That's basically a full season's worth of games.

 

[Rockport]

It’s a team game and this team is not built around the QB. Not just anyone could go 32-17, but there are probably 20 or so QBs in the league that could (and some could do better) with the supporting cast that’s been here throughout that time.

People use “ team game” to fit an agenda.

 

[LatinMind]

So? Nobody said he’s not a capable guy. He’s a legitimate NFL starter. The question is, is he a legitimate franchise guy on the level of the top 10 or so QBs in the league. And if he’s not (and clearly he isn’t right now), what are the odds he gets there. Most talent evaluators would say Dak has a high floor but a low ceiling. You might not like that, and you don’t have to accept that Dak can’t get better. But he is what he is right now. Arm talent, pocket awareness, read anticipation. None of those are anywhere near elite and those are what the top QBs in the league have in spades. Probably the only one that can really improve is read anticipation. But he needs someone that Dallas clearly doesn’t have on staff now to help with that. And even then, maybe he never gets it

Maybe you just look at this emotionally and not rationally. But it’s not hard to do research and see what the top talent evaluators say about Dak if you really want to know. Even with his production improving and Dallas finishing strong all the same issues that Dak exhibited even in college are still present. There’s just been a better job (mostly thanks to Cooper) of Dallas putting Dak in situations where he can succeed at a greater clip. But that can only take you so far unless you have an ultra elite supporting cast which he doesn’t have. My hope is that we get Dak a coach or coaches that can help with pre-snap reads and more importantly with read anticipation. Teach him to make decisions and get the ball out quickly to the right spot. Even as great as Luck was, he had to learn that during his absence because he was taking unnecessary shots and it made him even better. A guy like Dak that lacks in critical areas could really use that skill.

I would say yes. If youre going to worry about personal accoplishments like passin yrds then ur never going to like him. If youre going to look at the wins, and when the team needs him late, the results are wins. Youre going to love him. I cant look at what he had as coaching so far as ideal. Because Linehan has never inserted something what hes good at. He running the same plays they designed for Romo. Two different types of QBs.

For me its about wins, and if he can be trusted when the games on the line. If all ur looking for is a fantasy Qb, then you shoul;dnt be watching games anyways.

 

[dckid]

I would like to ask the forum why we as an NFL treat Dak so different from any other young QB. The easy answer is he’s the Cowboys QB, but let’s dive in a little more.

Dak just finished up year 3. His biggest criticisms are:

-Inconsistent with decision making and accuracy.
-Issues with pocket awareness.
-“Game Manager”

Here are his first 3 years:

Dak Prescott- 975 completions on 1,475 attempts for a 66% completion percentage and about 3,625 passing yards a season. He’s averaged 23 TD passes and 8 interceptions. His YPA for his career is 7.4

Let’s look at 3 other quarterbacks in their first 3 years

Russell Wilson - 794 completions on 1,252 attempts for a 63.33 completion percentage for about 3,316 passing yards a season. Over those years he averaged 24 TD passes and about 8 interceptions. His YPA in those 3 years was 7.8

Big Ben - 644 completions on 1,032 attempts for a 62 % completion percentage and about 2,840 yards passing a season. He averaged about 17 TD passes and 14 interceptions. His YPA those years was 8.4

Tom Brady - 954 completions on 1,541 attempts for a 62% completion rate and about 3,409 yards passing a season. He averaged about 23 TD passes and 13 interceptions. His YPA was 6.7

Dak arguably has performed the best statistically of all these teams with worse coaching and worse players (remember these are all Super Bowl teams within those first 3 years of those guys careers).

I hear so much talk on this forum about how much better Romo was and they back it up with stats and highlights from when Romo already had years of experience and reps.

Dak is only in year 3. While the other QB’s mentioned above were given some of the same criticisms, they also were given time to grow.

-R. Wilson was a game manager who routinely sailed fastballs over WR’s heads.
-It took Tom Brady 5 years to shake off his rep as a game manager with an all time great HC.
-Big Ben barely got to throw the ball this first few years.

Why do most other QB’s get a chance to improve while Dak is supposed to be at peak potential right away?

Is it because Dak’s lows are aesthetically unpleasant while his highs don’t look that sexy either? Is it the color of his skin? Is it the 2016 season that spoiled us all?

Dak has obviously made strides in improvement this season once he got a semblance of a WR/TE group.
Why do most fans shut the door on any more improvement from him? Why do we give Jared Goff a pass for bad QB coaching but Dak doesn’t? Help me understand why we as a fanbase refuse to give Dak the same leash as everyone else. All these QB’s were limited in their first few years, let’s let the growth process complete before we make a definitive judgment.

Some of it clearly has to do with him being black. Let’s not kid ourselves. We are clearly not in the PC era anymore, so let’s be honest.
To me color has nothing to do with a QB, my biggest criticism has been his accuracy. I just don’t see him make the kind of passes that even a Baker Mayfield makes.
The other major issue is can we see him improve? Has he improved from year 1 to year 3? How much more can he improve?
And tying it together comes down to are we going to commit 25million a year to him? Now days it’s very dangerous to be wrong about a QB.

 

[LatinMind]

Last 15 games

1 Wilson 114.6
2 Brees 111.3
3 Ryan 107.9
4 Mahomes 105.8
5 Wentz 103.7
6 Watson 102.5
7 Prescott 99.9
8 Cousins 99.7
9 Trubisky 99.5
10 Luck 99.4

That's basically a full season's worth of games.

i had this debate with somebody in my private msgs. I basically said when Dallas got Cooper after, Dak was one of the most productive QBS in the the nfl. The offense was one of the most productive. LOL the same response as every other pessimist. IDC about those stats. He's still missing deep throws. My response was on most of them drives where he misses, hes still driving down the field for a TD. IDC he still missed it, he's not consitent. lol

You can post facts and give them absolutes like wins and outcomes. But their narrative will always be the same.

 

[Q_the_man]

You can't compare Dak's numbers to anyone who came into the league earlier than him. Rule changes have made it easier than ever to throw the ball and so really Dak should have better numbers than them. You could look at those guys by rankings when they came into the league which would control for those differences.

Well just compare Dak to some of the top QBs in the league over the last 3 years, Dak stats are right up their.... I'm pretty sure I saw Aaron Rodgers throw some horrible passes, he just does not throw INTs because he throws the ball away. BTW Rodgers and at least 14 former 1st round picks over the last 6 years did not make the playoffs as QB

 

[ChronicCowboy]

Dallas had one of the best offenses in the league in 2014 and 2016. 2015 was a mess because of losing Murray and Romo getting hurt. Since then our offense has steadily declined. I really don’t understand the teams lack of urgency with the offensive coaching considering the free fall.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Agreed! There are no better options than Garrett at this time. If we don't improve next year, it is bye bye clappy.

Not if he gets an extension. Jerry don't pay coaches to not coach. He may move him within the organization, but doubtful. Garrett is here for a few years more, at the very least.

 

[pansophy]

Rules didn't change that much since Ben, the hitting a defenseless wr is about the only change, 5 yards illegal contact has always been a rule.

All you have to do is look at the passing yards thrown 5 years ago compared to now to see that passing is easier than ever.

 

[pansophy]

Well just compare Dak to some of the top QBs in the league over the last 3 years, Dak stats are right up their.... I'm pretty sure I saw Aaron Rodgers throw some horrible passes, he just does not throw INTs because he throws the ball away. BTW Rodgers and at least 14 former 1st round picks over the last 6 years did not make the playoffs as QB

I started coming around to Dak mid-season when I saw WRs have to drag their feet at the sideline 10-20 yards downfield. That's what was missing IMO to keep defenses honest.

I've downloaded all the data using the NFL API -- any way I look at the data Dak is 2nd or 3rd tier, but he is not bad, and certainly good enough to win when adding his running ability into the equation. He may never be a HOF passer but only Cowboy fans seem to believe you have to have a HOFer at QB to win.

He is just going to need help around him, and hopefully his next contract reflects that. That's all I want.

 

[HungryLion]

They might have statistical improvement but the actual skill set growth I think is done in the first few years. I feel this way in most things not just for Dak. You reach a peak and maintain thenngo down usually not just keep going up and up. Since Dak throwing wise has been the same since Miss St I don't think he has much room to grow skills wise. Maybe a better OC and scheme can help with the stats though. At best he gets one more year of being young and I hope people stop saying it after next year.

I think major developments are probably over by now. You’re right in that.

I do tend to think that minor tweaks and adjustments can be made.

For instance, a good number of Dak’s bad throws stem from bad footwork. If he can get his footwork more consistent, the accuracy can make some improvements. He could also eliminate some of the bad sacks he is taking.

So while major huge changes probably won’t happen. I do think small improvements that make a real impact on the ability to win games, can be achieved.

But I guess we will find out because our GM/owner is sold on him.

 

[pansophy]

I think major developments are probably over by now. You’re right in that.

I do tend to think that minor tweaks and adjustments can be made.

For instance, a good number of Dak’s bad throws stem from bad footwork. If he can get his footwork more consistent, the accuracy can make some improvements. He could also eliminate some of the bad sacks he is taking.

So while major huge changes probably won’t happen. I do think small improvements that make a real impact on the ability to win games, can be achieved.

But I guess we will find out because our GM/owner is sold on him.

I don't know -- I still think Dak has some significant improvement ahead. He seemed to make some big jumps in the later half of the season in terms of anticipating throws and making throws at the sideline. He started to throw intermediate routes at the sideline instead of so many low percentage go routes to force defenses out of clogging the middle of the field.

I mostly like Cowherd's assessment of Dak: A+ intangibles, pretty average passer, with the added benefit of making big plays in the running game. His footwork was non-existent when he came into the league. I still think we have another year of big improvement from Dak as a passer, at least shoring up his biggest weaknesses if not improving on his strengths as a passer. I would take fewer bad throws over more great ones.

Also why I tend to not want us to change the offense dramatically. Would hate to interfere with Dak's progression by making him learn a new system at this critical juncture. Could be talked into running the Rams scheme though, which looked perfectly built to maximize Dak's talents and our running attack.

 

[SlammedZero]

I think this is just going to be an endless debate for the entire duration of Dak's career here. In reality, he is and is going to be our QB. Fans should at least root for the guy, regardless. It's in your best interest if you want to see the team you root for win. I think people have already made up their minds and will debate with their own agenda on why they are right.

The only people I don't understand are the people that argue against the stats. "Stats don't tell the whole story!" Oh really? Numbers are used in science to measure information, yet, somehow here in football they're not applicable.

 

[Philmonroe]

I think major developments are probably over by now. You’re right in that.

I do tend to think that minor tweaks and adjustments can be made.

For instance, a good number of Dak’s bad throws stem from bad footwork. If he can get his footwork more consistent, the accuracy can make some improvements. He could also eliminate some of the bad sacks he is taking.

So while major huge changes probably won’t happen. I do think small improvements that make a real impact on the ability to win games, can be achieved.

But I guess we will find out because our GM/owner is sold on him.

I can't argue with none of this but when he is still playing like this when he gets that bigger money the voices will get louder and it won't just be "haters" crapping on this guy. Technically he can fix his issues but this is where y'all are being emotional imo and not realistic. Just think realistically with people you know or even yourself where you have problems no matter how big are small that are fixable and you haven't worked on them for whatever reason. That's Dak he's had the same problems since before the draft and I'm supposed to think someone that hasn't fixed them same problems going on 3/4 years is going to do it now? Maybe but I'd be shocked just like someone that's been out of shape for years deciding to lose weight without something drastic happening. Not negative just base things on what's more likely to happen from life experiences that we've all mostly saw in some way.

 

[Philmonroe]

I think this is just going to be an endless debate for the entire duration of Dak's career here. In reality, he is and is going to be our QB. Fans should at least root for the guy, regardless. It's in your best interest if you want to see the team you root for win. I think people have already made up their minds and will debate with their own agenda on why they are right.

The only people I don't understand are the people that argue against the stats. "Stats don't tell the whole story!" Oh really? Numbers are used in science to measure information, yet, somehow here in football they're not applicable.

The ole shut up and be glad stuff eh? Thinking he isn't good doesn't mean not rooting for your team so please come up with a non emotional reason why people can't say he's avg, not that good etc. Stats never tell the whole story but some people aren't smart enough to see that. If there were no stats does Dak play look like a top level qb? No but I'm sure you'll say it does and that's because you've been blinded not by science but by stats. If the stats don't match the on field play disregard them period. Dak is avg but for people like you it'll take getting Alex Smith Jr out of here and see a better qb talent do better on this team. It won't happen soon but if he keeps playing like this the voices will multiply and y'all can keep talking that stats only stuff if you want to like it saved Romo. Not

 

[blumayne38]

All a product of Garrett protecting Dak with playcalling, that’s all this is

 

[GenoT]

I would like to ask the forum why we as an NFL treat Dak so different from any other young QB. The easy answer is he’s the Cowboys QB, but let’s dive in a little more.

Dak just finished up year 3. His biggest criticisms are:

-Inconsistent with decision making and accuracy.
-Issues with pocket awareness.
-“Game Manager”

Here are his first 3 years:

Dak Prescott- 975 completions on 1,475 attempts for a 66% completion percentage and about 3,625 passing yards a season. He’s averaged 23 TD passes and 8 interceptions. His YPA for his career is 7.4

Let’s look at 3 other quarterbacks in their first 3 years

Russell Wilson - 794 completions on 1,252 attempts for a 63.33 completion percentage for about 3,316 passing yards a season. Over those years he averaged 24 TD passes and about 8 interceptions. His YPA in those 3 years was 7.8

Big Ben - 644 completions on 1,032 attempts for a 62 % completion percentage and about 2,840 yards passing a season. He averaged about 17 TD passes and 14 interceptions. His YPA those years was 8.4

Tom Brady - 954 completions on 1,541 attempts for a 62% completion rate and about 3,409 yards passing a season. He averaged about 23 TD passes and 13 interceptions. His YPA was 6.7

Dak arguably has performed the best statistically of all these teams with worse coaching and worse players (remember these are all Super Bowl teams within those first 3 years of those guys careers).

I hear so much talk on this forum about how much better Romo was and they back it up with stats and highlights from when Romo already had years of experience and reps.

Dak is only in year 3. While the other QB’s mentioned above were given some of the same criticisms, they also were given time to grow.

-R. Wilson was a game manager who routinely sailed fastballs over WR’s heads.
-It took Tom Brady 5 years to shake off his rep as a game manager with an all time great HC.
-Big Ben barely got to throw the ball this first few years.

Why do most other QB’s get a chance to improve while Dak is supposed to be at peak potential right away?

Is it because Dak’s lows are aesthetically unpleasant while his highs don’t look that sexy either? Is it the color of his skin? Is it the 2016 season that spoiled us all?

Dak has obviously made strides in improvement this season once he got a semblance of a WR/TE group.
Why do most fans shut the door on any more improvement from him? Why do we give Jared Goff a pass for bad QB coaching but Dak doesn’t? Help me understand why we as a fanbase refuse to give Dak the same leash as everyone else. All these QB’s were limited in their first few years, let’s let the growth process complete before we make a definitive judgment.

CZ is a Cowboys-centric site. Thousands of members have thousands of opinions — some you’ll agree with, others you won’t.

It’s really not that difficult to understand.

If you’re still confused, go to any other NFL teams’ websites — particularly those whose teams have flamed out for, say, 23 seasons and counting? — and tell us what you find regarding opinions about their respective QBs.

 

[Ranching]

I would like to ask the forum why we as an NFL treat Dak so different from any other young QB. The easy answer is he’s the Cowboys QB, but let’s dive in a little more.

Dak just finished up year 3. His biggest criticisms are:

-Inconsistent with decision making and accuracy.
-Issues with pocket awareness.
-“Game Manager”

Here are his first 3 years:

Dak Prescott- 975 completions on 1,475 attempts for a 66% completion percentage and about 3,625 passing yards a season. He’s averaged 23 TD passes and 8 interceptions. His YPA for his career is 7.4

Let’s look at 3 other quarterbacks in their first 3 years

Russell Wilson - 794 completions on 1,252 attempts for a 63.33 completion percentage for about 3,316 passing yards a season. Over those years he averaged 24 TD passes and about 8 interceptions. His YPA in those 3 years was 7.8

Big Ben - 644 completions on 1,032 attempts for a 62 % completion percentage and about 2,840 yards passing a season. He averaged about 17 TD passes and 14 interceptions. His YPA those years was 8.4

Tom Brady - 954 completions on 1,541 attempts for a 62% completion rate and about 3,409 yards passing a season. He averaged about 23 TD passes and 13 interceptions. His YPA was 6.7

Dak arguably has performed the best statistically of all these teams with worse coaching and worse players (remember these are all Super Bowl teams within those first 3 years of those guys careers).

I hear so much talk on this forum about how much better Romo was and they back it up with stats and highlights from when Romo already had years of experience and reps.

Dak is only in year 3. While the other QB’s mentioned above were given some of the same criticisms, they also were given time to grow.

-R. Wilson was a game manager who routinely sailed fastballs over WR’s heads.
-It took Tom Brady 5 years to shake off his rep as a game manager with an all time great HC.
-Big Ben barely got to throw the ball this first few years.

Why do most other QB’s get a chance to improve while Dak is supposed to be at peak potential right away?

Is it because Dak’s lows are aesthetically unpleasant while his highs don’t look that sexy either? Is it the color of his skin? Is it the 2016 season that spoiled us all?

Dak has obviously made strides in improvement this season once he got a semblance of a WR/TE group.
Why do most fans shut the door on any more improvement from him? Why do we give Jared Goff a pass for bad QB coaching but Dak doesn’t? Help me understand why we as a fanbase refuse to give Dak the same leash as everyone else. All these QB’s were limited in their first few years, let’s let the growth process complete before we make a definitive judgment.

It's easy, like the song says....God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

 

[Cmac]

Still scares me.

 

[DogFace]

I do think it is a fair comparison to look at Wentz and Goff. FWIW I thought Dak outplayed Goff the other night.

It's also reasonable to look at rankings rather than raw numbers, which should account for rule differences etc. I'm old enough to remember when passing over 3000 yards was considered a solid year, equivalent to a 1000 yard rusher, and Dan Marino's 5000 yard passing record was 'unbreakable' it was so over the top incredible. Big Ben and Mahomes both passed for over 5000 yards this season, and Matt Ryan almost did as well.

It's just not the same to talk about Russel Wilson in 2012 as if those were the same conditions to pass within as it is now.

I agree about Marino. Not about Wilson. Plus, the stat mentioned was about Wilson’s first 3 years and the last of that was Dak’s rookie year. So not really a different era.

When Dak’s numbers are compared to other great quarterbacks and some get upset at the comparison. I wish they’d realize it is just that. A comparison. It does not mean anyone is saying he’s as good as Brady or anything. Simply a comparison. Everyone can draw their own conclusions. For me, it simply says he has a lot of promise and those that say he’s horrible etc. are off base and need to review the comparisons, his wins losses, and his numbers. That’s really the only way, as a fan, to judge a QB.


The bottom line is I don’t think many realize how hard it is to get a good QB, let alone a great one.