Why Jerry must hope Garrett is Bill Cowher

[CowboyRoy]

Why would we have that confidence with this dysfunctional organization ?

Do we have any confidence Jerry will bring in someone else who’d provide that confidence?

And take his thunder away receiving more credit like Jimmy did? Do all fans even accept why we are what we’ve become?

Not a lot of confidence. But if he was smart, he would bring in a young offensive genius to run THAT side of the ball and get Garrett away from everything but speeches and organization. He would get the credit for doing that. And having his puppet in place would provide all the glory he wanted if we did win. But there is no way we are winning with Garrett if he is involved in the offense or the play calling.

 

[Bobhaze]

Yep but the OP only measurement of a great HC is winning the SB. Anything short of that and apparently he’s a failed prospect.

That means the Bud Grants , Marv Levys and Don Coryells of the NFL were just failed HC’s never winning a SB. Lol

And apparently Cowher was failed until he win a SB?

I never said that Greg. In fact my point was that if the SB is the goal, almost all HC who win one do it in the first five years with that team.

 

[Diehardblues]

I buy in to this.

And to the point... I think Belichick gets his due as a great coach, but I also believe... my opinion... we mainly know him as a great coach because he has enjoyed having arguably the best QB in NFL history on the field on his side of the ball.

Statistically, the sheer math tells us you should expect a Super Bowl appearance every 16 years, all things being equal. The challenge is to be an outlier on the positive side of that curve, going back repeatedly over the course of the years. But you need that elite QB. That's requisite.

The Belichick/Brady story gives me great pause as I reflect on what might've been in store for us, if either Aikman or Staubach or both had been able to keep their health the way that Brady has... and of course, if Jimmy had stuck it out and made it work.

Actually Bill did a great job beginning to turn the Browns until it was announced of the move to Baltimore , then they collapsed . But there was no indication he’d ever have the success he’s had in New England.

As far as Landry/ Staubach.. they had their opportunities for much more. Especially Landry who went to 12 conf champ games from 1966-1982 and of course 7 in the 70’s. But only came away with 5 Super Bowl appearances and two Rings.

The achievement was always being in contention while on several occasions they simply were beat by a better team while having a good enough team to win coming down to a play or two which was the difference.

I can’t imagine the criticism Landry would receive in this Super Bowl or Bust mentality era losing all of those championship games? What a bum and choker lol

 

[Sydla]

What fans might have missed with Lewis is those 7 playoff appearances matched the times the Bengals had been to the playoffs going back to their inception into the league about 1966 of I recall correctly. They’ve been a dormant team for most of their years. So becoming a consistent playoff team was quite N achievement I can’t blame them for not wanting to flush out until it took a nosedive.

And yet after 16 years, they never won a playoff game under him.

Unless you think the stated goal of the Bengals to Lewis was just make the playoffs and we don't care about the rest. Is that what you are arguing?

 

[_sturt_]

It's the same logic that suggests you need to be more careful when driving within 25 miles of your house because more car accidents occur within 25 miles of one's house.

Never mind that, rationally, people are going to drive more miles within 25 miles of their houses than they will in the next tier, 25-50 miles from their house.

That's why you have to look beyond mere numbers, and look at ratios.

And we're lacking in having ratios reported, at least thus far, in this thread.

 

[Diehardblues]

Not a lot of confidence. But if he was smart, he would bring in a young offensive genius to run THAT side of the ball and get Garrett away from everything but speeches and organization. He would get the credit for doing that. And having his puppet in place would provide all the glory he wanted if we did win. But there is no way we are winning with Garrett if he is involved in the offense or the play calling.

Of course but he’s a Football Idiot with an ego bigger than Texas and why we are so limited in the coaching aspect of the Cowboys.

Wanting for something and or holding someone else to a Bar that’s not realistically obtainable with the situation allowed doesn’t appear sound logic to me.

 

[Miller]

Interesting how this generation and era has developed more of a fan base which is a Super Bowl or Bust mentality. Maybe Jerry has had something to do with creating this madness?

It’s like everything is a failure if you don’t win the Super Bowl.
Utterly ridiculous!!!

Hate to tell you this but this was worse in the 70s and 80s. I'd cry and the whole town would be having the worst day of the year after a regular season loss. The mentality was you win it all or it was a failure. We won 20 straight seasons at one point. I'm not sure how you think it is the mentality now when we haven't been close in 25 years and the management is fine with wild card wins.

 

[Sydla]

Wasn't that great a post.

Let's start with the reality that yes, Marv Levy and Bud Grant aren't thought of as highly as SB winning coaches. That's just the truth. For as good as Levy was, he's not considered the coach say Walsh was or Joe Gibbs was. Why? Because those guys won SBs and Levy never did.

Further, how any of this applies to Garrett is peculiar. Guys like Levy and Bud Grant and Andy Reid and Bill Cowher had WAY MORE SUCCESS than Garrett did in their first 8 years in Buffalo, Minnesota, Philly and Pittsburgh.

 

[Diehardblues]

Hate to tell you this but this was worse in the 70s and 80s. The mentality was you win it all or it was a failure. We won 20 straight seasons at one point. I'm not sure how you think it is the mentality now when we haven't been close in 25 years and the management is fine with wild card wins.

It’s because our franchise mentality has changed with Jerry’s agendas .

We no longer place a premium in coaching . Jerry tried that with Jimmy but it wasn’t enough unless he received the credit he was pursuing.

I don’t agree it was worse back then at least using the parameter that was presented here.

I don’t recall the Bud Grants, Don Coryells and George Allen’s of that era being bashed or ran out of town for not winning a SB?

 

[CowboyRoy]

Of course but he’s a Football Idiot with an ego bigger than Texas and why we are so limited in the coaching aspect of the Cowboys.

Wanting for something and or holding someone else to a Bar that’s not realistically obtainable with the situation allowed doesn’t appear sound logic to me.

Ok wait..........now I remember. Your the one that likes Garrett because he is the best we could ever hope for as long as Jerry runs the show. AND your the one that wants to get rid of Dak because ONLY a Tom Brady type talent has a chance to win a championship with Garrett as HC and Jerry as GM?

 

[Diehardblues]

And yet after 16 years, they never won a playoff game under him.

Unless you think the stated goal of the Bengals to Lewis was just make the playoffs and we don't care about the rest. Is that what you are arguing?

My point was Lewis brought them to a higher level than they’d been since going back to Sam Wyche era. 7 playoff appearances was quite an improvement over the previous 20 years and why the Bengals had more patience.

And that’s how IMO we should compare Garrett, to the previous HC in Jerry’s puppet era.

We can’t compare Garrett and our dysfunctional organization to other franchise more normal situations.

 

[Sydla]

No it doesn't work like that.

The absence of data is just an absence of data... it doesn't tell you what would have been or wouldn't have been, and we have to just be content with not knowing, period.

And, there is no "trend" to be had if you have no actual data set from which to see a trend.

You're trying to project a trend, but that projection is rife with bias toward a predetermined conclusion.

Of course you are trying to project a trend based on the historical trends to date. And sure, it's possible Jason Garrett could win a SB in the future here in Dallas. But it's largely unlikely.

There's no predetermined conclusion. It's a simple statement of fact. The majority of SB winning coaches have won a SB within the first 5 years on the job.

 

[Diehardblues]

Ok wait..........now I remember. Your the one that likes Garrett because he is the best we could ever hope for as long as Jerry runs the show. AND your the one that wants to get rid of Dak because ONLY a Tom Brady type talent has a chance to win a championship with Garrett as HC and Jerry as GM?

I certainly believe since we are a talent dependent driven franchise that having a more elite QB would enhance our success with our current coaching staff and dysfunctional organization.

And I would argue despite Garretts obvious coaching weaknesses he does appear to be one of the most effective puppets we’ve seen within the parameters Jerry’s selfish endeavors allows.

 

[Sydla]

My point was Lewis brought them to a higher level than they’d been since going back to Sam Wyche era. 7 playoff appearances was quite an improvement over the previous 20 years and why the Bengals had more patience.

And that’s how IMO we should compare Garrett, to the previous HC in Jerry’s puppet era.

We can’t compare Garrett and our dysfunctional organization to other franchise more normal situations.

So Garrett is a success because we get to compare him to Phillips and Chan Gailey?

 

[Miller]

It’s because our franchise mentality has changed with Jerry’s agendas .

We no longer place a premium in coaching . Jerry tried that with Jimmy but it wasn’t enough unless he received the credit he was pursuing.

I don’t agree it was worse back then at least using the parameter that was presented here.

I don’t recall the Bud Grants, Don Coryells and George Allen’s of that era being bashed or ran out of town for not winning a SB?

Those guys weren't run out of town but Bud Grant's failure was a big topic. In Cowboy nation..especially in the 70s...it was almost expected. Danny White was in the conversation despite 3 straight NFC Conference Championship appearances. He was criticized because we were favored in all 3. In fact people look at the 80s as a complete failure despite only hitting rock bottom late in the 80s. It was way worse than now because Jerry has allowed a fan base to be apathetic. You are right on Jerry and coaching but, honestly, people long for the days on expecting more vs a pat on the back for making the playoffs.

 

[Diehardblues]

If Cowboy fans are waiting on some kind of Absolution to come from Jerry allowing a HC to come in here and steal his thunder like Jimmy did I’d argue you are barking up the wrong tree.

Instead I’d recommend how to make the most of a bad situation in our dysfunctional organization which begins with upgrading asst coaches and talent in key positions which we have evidence with positive results.

 

[Diehardblues]

Those guys weren't run out of town but Bud Grant's failure was a big topic. In Cowboy nation..especially in the 70s...it was almost expected. Danny White was in the conversation despite 3 straight NFC Conference Championship appearances. He was criticized because we were favored in all 3. In fact people look at the 80s as a complete failure despite only hitting rock bottom late in the 80s. It was way worse than now because Jerry has allowed a fan base to be apathetic. You are right on Jerry and coaching but, honestly, people long for the days on expecting more vs a pat on the back for making the playoffs.

I’m not patting us on the backs. I’m just not holding out with this hope it’s going to drastically change. And accepting the beast for what it is. I waved my white flag with Jerry years ago.

 

[Diehardblues]

So Garrett is a success because we get to compare him to Phillips and Chan Gailey?

Why would we compare him to any other situation in the NFL. Is there like a top 10 of leading puppet franchises?

 

[Bobhaze]

If Cowboy fans are waiting on some kind of Absolution to come from Jerry allowing a HC to come in here and steal his thunder like Jimmy did I’d argue you are barking up the wrong tree.

Instead I’d recommend how to make the most of a bad situation in our dysfunctional organization which begins with upgrading asst coaches and talent in key positions which we have evidence with positive results.

Greg, you have an understandable, reasoned opinion about the Jerry situation. I’ve read it many times and you argue it well. But there are other opinions that are also well reasoned and valid. Many I agree with, many I don’t. Can’t we just share opinions?

 

[Bobhaze]

It's the same logic that suggests you need to be more careful when driving within 25 miles of your house because more car accidents occur within 25 miles of one's house.

Never mind that, rationally, people are going to drive more miles within 25 miles of their houses than they will in the next tier, 25-50 miles from their house.

That's why you have to look beyond mere numbers, and look at ratios.

And we're lacking in having ratios reported, at least thus far, in this thread.

This OP is not at all like that. It simply shows that in the 52 years of the super bowl, 90% of the time, the winning coach wins one within the first five years of being with that team. That’s not 100%. But it is certainly a real factor.