A look back, Garrett may not be so bad afterall

Sydla

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It isn’t, though. McClay was elevated first to director of football research in Garrett’s first offseason. That position oversaw technology and analytics and was where he found Robinson and Selvie. What you’re talking about was his 2nd well-earned promotion after the dust-up in the draft room with Ciskowski.

We hadn’t drafted an OL in the first round since Niland and then drafted the first of 3 in succession. McClay only ran the draft that took Martin, IIRC.

If you think something was well-reported, though, by all means report it. It won’t change the fact that we overhauled the draft and player evaluation process when Garrett came in as head coach.

McClay wasn’t elevated to head of player research until 2012. Garrett’s first offseason was 2011. And it was Jerry who promoted him in 2012. Again giving Garrett credit for that is peculiar.

Things have changed over Garrett’s tenure but you want to give him the lion’s share Of credit and that’s an exaggeration.
 

Romotil45

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Serious question, what makes him a great HC? Does he attack opponents weaknesses, does he identify weaknesses in run defense? Are the game plans complex, is the team always ready? I guess he gets the teams to not quit, I respect that, but many teams "dont quit." Maybe it is the environment working for Jines, but he doesnt seem to command much authority.

Im not a Garrett fanboy by any means I don't believe Garrett is a great X's and O's coach but I do believer he is a great manager of a team. What I mean by that is the culture and discipline that he instills. Head coaches are responsible for setting the tone OC's and DC's do most of the X's and O's work.
 

Idgit

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McClay wasn’t elevated to head of player research until 2012. Garrett’s first offseason was 2011. And it was Jerry who promoted him in 2012. Again giving Garrett credit for that is peculiar.

Things have changed over Garrett’s tenure but you want to give him the lion’s share Of credit and that’s an exaggeration.

He was director of football research from 2011-2013.

It was a promotion he was given in Garrett’s first offseason when they reorganized the scouting department to align with what Garrett wanted based on his experience with both scouting and coaching staffs having been the son of both a coach and a scout. These were specific changes he brought in because he didn’t like the way Wade had managed things previously. They reorganized so that coaches and scouts had counterparts in each department and reorganized some of the roles in the process, which led to that initial elevation of McClay. It’s not peculiar, it’s reality.

And I don’t care about the lions share of anything. The organization runs as a team right now. My point was that Garrett brought in a significant and obvious change to how scouting and coaching work in Dallas and that’s it’s good thing and ok to give him some credit for that.
 

Chocolate Lab

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McClay wasn’t elevated to head of player research until 2012. Garrett’s first offseason was 2011. And it was Jerry who promoted him in 2012. Again giving Garrett credit for that is peculiar
.
Not that peculiar, because when you're a Garrett fan and you can't point to his actual coaching as a positive, you have to concoct other things he supposedly is good at.

The truth is, Garrett can't even call plays when he wants to. He can't even keep friends and family members on staff when he wants to. Yet some want to give him credit for being the architect of the entire program. It's absolutely laughable.
 

Idgit

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Not that peculiar, because when you're a Garrett fan and you can't point to his actual coaching as a positive, you have to concoct other things he supposedly is good at.

The truth is, Garrett can't even call plays when he wants to. He can't even keep friends and family members on staff when he wants to. Yet some want to give him credit for being the architect of the entire program. It's absolutely laughable.

For the record, I point to the actual coaching as a positive.

Jerry calls the shots in Dallas. This is not news. Ask Jimmy. That’s not going to change, so if you’re going to use it as your measuring stick for a coach’s ability, any coach we hire will fall short. It’s a useless measurement.
 

glimmerman

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Exactly. Some keep harping on how the team always plays hard for him. What happened against the Rams?
Like you said glim, look what happens every time we get to the playoffs.
Garrett can keep up with the regular season teams, but when the competition stiffens for the playoffs, Garrett wilts.
It’s true. 2014 was the best players year, Romo at the helm and pretty much called his own plays. We had a murray fumble that really changed things, then the Dez catch-no catch.

2016 I felt was the best that JG had. We were down and the rookies Dak and Elliot believed in him and they fought back. Again a blunder at the end hurt them. Since then I wonder if there is a disconnect between them (the players) and the staff. HC and OC. The Defense was really not ready against the rams. I don’t know if Richard was busy interviewing for jobs and Marinelli did the game plan and called the game? Seemed like we played in prevent the whole game and let them run after stuffing the run all year.
 

ConstantReboot

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A look back at Garrett’s record with us. Is he really that bad or that good.

Circumstances play a lot into it, beyond a coaches control.
I am not sure what I am trying to say with this, just looking at is from a different perspective than I have over the past year or so. Not meant to be negative or positive. But seems more positive though.

He took over for Wade after a 1-7 start in 2010. He led the team to a 5-3 record. Then took over in 2011 as his first full season.
But before that, when he came in for the 2007 season, the team was 13-3, 9-7, 11-5, as they won the NFCE twice, and the offense was pretty good. But yet many still knocked the offense. These are Garrett led offenses.
So in his first full offseason, he started dumping the over paid, aging under performing players. Especially the OL. Strapped in salary cap hell, the rebuild started. And it was going to take time.

And don’t forget the defenses and switching from 4-3 to 3-4, had to hire Wade, to keep the 3-4 going, then spawn of Buddy Ryan, then back to the 4-3, that set this team back 12 years. I think they are just now recovering from all of that. While trying to fix it all and plus keep the team competitive.

So he goes 3 straight 8-8, win and in games and lost 3 times. With still a roster devoid of talent. Romo in the 1st 2 years of those 8-8 seasons, threw late game picks and cost us those games. People want to blame Jason, well, look at Tony as well. That 3rd season, Tony brought us back with his injured back to beat Washington, with some late game last play TD. However, it was Kyle Orton that threw that game ending pick, at home to the Eagles to knock us out that year.

Yes win other games where there were screw ups then that last game may not matter. And I do not believe the “ice your own K” game was on Garrett for that particular moment. Maybe other decisions, too far back to remember, or care.

Then all healthy, the 12-4 season, that we were robbed in GB. Yes some coaching gaffes in that game if one wants to be critical. But Garrett didn’t tell Murray to be loose with the ball that would have been a TD. Therefore those other decisions may not have to been in play. Like to me, go for the first down, not throw to Dez. That was a messed up call. Bt many teams do this, not just Garrett / Linehan.

Then the injury plagued 2015 season. Not on Garrett at all. No Tony, No Lee a good part of the time. Injuries on the D as well. Was that the year they used like 18 different DL. Or maybe it was 2013.
2016, another Tony injury. Did anyone truly think from that point on, this team was going to do anything at all, if Tony did come back. He was always a hit away from missing time.

So enter Dak and Zeke. And a magical season. That ended in a heartbreaking loss. A game that the D let us down yet again, as Dak brought us back and went toe to toe with a GOAT candidate. Again GB got help from the refs. But also there were some dumb play calls, a few decisions that we questioned. Like that stupid bubble screen that GB was waiting on and intercepted, negating a possible TD. But in hindsight, crap happens to many teams.

2017, robbed by the NFL with the Zeke situation. Not Garrett’s fault, however this was where I lost it for Garrett. I still think they had some chances to win 2 games, but decisions blew it. I think this staff had many blown decisions that may have made a difference otherwise, even just to win one more game. But then again injuries to Lee and Smith did not help t all. Especially in that Atlanta game.

Now there were some very questionable choices in quite a few games during this 8-8 season, could have been 9-7 and in. Even in 2017 season, same thing, make the right call, maybe we are 10-6 and in. However, no one can say if the right call was made, we would have won. The other team gets paid to go and score again.

So to 2018, 3-5, Garrett talks to the team, Cooper comes in, and they finish 10-6, and 1-1 in the playoffs. And more seems to be on Linehan than Garrett. As it seems in those last 8 games and 2 playoff games, Garrett made many correct calls. None that cost us a loss.

However a few early games he had a few questionable calls, like in the Houston game, but were they really all that questionable. That can be debated, and no one would be right or wrong. Well in their own opinions anyway.
He wins the NFCE 3 of 5 years, and one year injuries galore, and one year we were cheated by the NFL.
Garrett finished last in the division one year, 2015, we know why. He finished 1st three times, 3rd twice, his first 2 years, and 2nd twice.
Made the playoff 3 times, and on the verge, one game away from the playoffs 4 other times. Could have made the playoffs every season but one. Yes I know, could have but didn’t.

Now many of you will look at it, and say, well this coach or that coach, and that is fine. I understand that. I am right here also. One can say, salary cap, we were worse off than those other teams. Everyone will have their reasons as to why or why not.
But if one looks back and see how he was limited to get better players, cap issues, old players, injured QB almost every year at some point.

But if you look at the past 4 years only, since they have been drafting better, cap issues resolved after all the dead money coming off the books now. And see what direction they are going. Maybe it is not so much Garrett. But we do know it is Linehan for sure being an issue. Garrett seems to be taking the role as Jimmy did. Let the coaches coach, and he will oversee it all. However, I feel he needed to intervene more often and override some of those decisions. Maybe he did or did not, we do not know how all that sideline stuff goes down. We can only speculate. There will be fans that will criticize regardless.

I still prefer a new HC and OC. And entire new set up and direction. But I can live with Garrett for another year, since they get a new OC. If Garrett gets an extension, then I hope they get the OC figured out, and not see the same old stuff going forward.

Why am I posting this, it is not to defend Garrett. And not to knock Garrett. Just looking at it from different viewpoint, as opposed to the constant bashing all the time.

:popcorn:

Drafting got better because of Will McClay. So we got better players through drafting because of him. Not Garrett.

We also became better at managing the cap better. That's because Stephen Jones seems to be tight with the budget and not so much like his daddy and signing players to big contracts.

Those 8-8 years happened because of Garrett's conservative game plan. if it weren't for Garrett's vanilla playcalling and scheme we would have won more games.

I think you make some good points. But we all know Garrett lack of understanding of how the offense works is why we haven't been to the playoffs. We keep making excuses for him. When will we finally see the results of his coaching?
 

Captain43Crash

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Serious question, what makes him a great HC? Does he attack opponents weaknesses, does he identify weaknesses in run defense? Are the game plans complex, is the team always ready? I guess he gets the teams to not quit, I respect that, but many teams "dont quit." Maybe it is the environment working for Jines, but he doesnt seem to command much authority.
Nothing makes him a great coach! That is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!
 

Captain43Crash

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I think most people dont understand the job of a HC in the NFL. They seem to judge it by their high school experience where the HC essentially did everything .or college where the HC had control of offense or/and defense and player personal.

In the NFL you need someone who can manage a team and a franchise. Dont think that without Garrett our strategy to build thru the draft would have prospered. That Will McClay would have been given such influence. That SJ took over duties and been quite and listen to people who know what they are talking about.

Garrett changed the whole franchise to work professional and turn the back to the drunken masters (blue lable) risk taken amateur approach.

As i said he is not good at playcalling or understanding the game. But no HC needs this ability. He needs to surround him by the right talent. And Garrett is able to do this. AND the players believe in his message.
What’s Garrett’s playoff record? He will never win a Superbowl. Take a chance on a new coach, we already know Garrett WILL NEVER lead us to a Superbowl win!!!!!
 

Captain43Crash

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I think the team would have a better chance with Jimmy than with Garrett, sure. But I also think Jimmy would have burned out and left before that season, which was his track record.

Jimmy is more like the dominant fastball pitcher in baseball while Garrett has a good mix of slighly above average pitches. The Fastball guy is better, but usually for a shorter career.
Only 1 will win you a Superbowl!! Why settle for slightly above average? That will not win a Superbowl!
 

Sammy

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Well, it looks like he'll be sticking around for at least another 10 years. I have photos to prove it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">2029 <a href="https://t.co/d0vSabYKZc">pic.twitter.com/d0vSabYKZc</a></p>&mdash; Ben Rogers (@BenRogers) <a href="">January 26, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

jazzcat22

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Drafting got better because of Will McClay. So we got better players through drafting because of him. Not Garrett.

We also became better at managing the cap better. That's because Stephen Jones seems to be tight with the budget and not so much like his daddy and signing players to big contracts.

Those 8-8 years happened because of Garrett's conservative game plan. if it weren't for Garrett's vanilla playcalling and scheme we would have won more games.

I think you make some good points. But we all know Garrett lack of understanding of how the offense works is why we haven't been to the playoffs. We keep making excuses for him. When will we finally see the results of his coaching?

I agree. And I was not making excuses either. I said there were other things that occurred they should have won more game. Then those last game win and in may not have mattered.
 

Whyjerry

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A look back at Garrett’s record with us. Is he really that bad or that good.

Circumstances play a lot into it, beyond a coaches control.
I am not sure what I am trying to say with this, just looking at is from a different perspective than I have over the past year or so. Not meant to be negative or positive. But seems more positive though.

He took over for Wade after a 1-7 start in 2010. He led the team to a 5-3 record. Then took over in 2011 as his first full season.
But before that, when he came in for the 2007 season, the team was 13-3, 9-7, 11-5, as they won the NFCE twice, and the offense was pretty good. But yet many still knocked the offense. These are Garrett led offenses.
So in his first full offseason, he started dumping the over paid, aging under performing players. Especially the OL. Strapped in salary cap hell, the rebuild started. And it was going to take time.

And don’t forget the defenses and switching from 4-3 to 3-4, had to hire Wade, to keep the 3-4 going, then spawn of Buddy Ryan, then back to the 4-3, that set this team back 12 years. I think they are just now recovering from all of that. While trying to fix it all and plus keep the team competitive.

So he goes 3 straight 8-8, win and in games and lost 3 times. With still a roster devoid of talent. Romo in the 1st 2 years of those 8-8 seasons, threw late game picks and cost us those games. People want to blame Jason, well, look at Tony as well. That 3rd season, Tony brought us back with his injured back to beat Washington, with some late game last play TD. However, it was Kyle Orton that threw that game ending pick, at home to the Eagles to knock us out that year.

Yes win other games where there were screw ups then that last game may not matter. And I do not believe the “ice your own K” game was on Garrett for that particular moment. Maybe other decisions, too far back to remember, or care.

Then all healthy, the 12-4 season, that we were robbed in GB. Yes some coaching gaffes in that game if one wants to be critical. But Garrett didn’t tell Murray to be loose with the ball that would have been a TD. Therefore those other decisions may not have to been in play. Like to me, go for the first down, not throw to Dez. That was a messed up call. Bt many teams do this, not just Garrett / Linehan.

Then the injury plagued 2015 season. Not on Garrett at all. No Tony, No Lee a good part of the time. Injuries on the D as well. Was that the year they used like 18 different DL. Or maybe it was 2013.
2016, another Tony injury. Did anyone truly think from that point on, this team was going to do anything at all, if Tony did come back. He was always a hit away from missing time.

So enter Dak and Zeke. And a magical season. That ended in a heartbreaking loss. A game that the D let us down yet again, as Dak brought us back and went toe to toe with a GOAT candidate. Again GB got help from the refs. But also there were some dumb play calls, a few decisions that we questioned. Like that stupid bubble screen that GB was waiting on and intercepted, negating a possible TD. But in hindsight, crap happens to many teams.

2017, robbed by the NFL with the Zeke situation. Not Garrett’s fault, however this was where I lost it for Garrett. I still think they had some chances to win 2 games, but decisions blew it. I think this staff had many blown decisions that may have made a difference otherwise, even just to win one more game. But then again injuries to Lee and Smith did not help t all. Especially in that Atlanta game.

Now there were some very questionable choices in quite a few games during this 8-8 season, could have been 9-7 and in. Even in 2017 season, same thing, make the right call, maybe we are 10-6 and in. However, no one can say if the right call was made, we would have won. The other team gets paid to go and score again.

So to 2018, 3-5, Garrett talks to the team, Cooper comes in, and they finish 10-6, and 1-1 in the playoffs. And more seems to be on Linehan than Garrett. As it seems in those last 8 games and 2 playoff games, Garrett made many correct calls. None that cost us a loss.

However a few early games he had a few questionable calls, like in the Houston game, but were they really all that questionable. That can be debated, and no one would be right or wrong. Well in their own opinions anyway.
He wins the NFCE 3 of 5 years, and one year injuries galore, and one year we were cheated by the NFL.
Garrett finished last in the division one year, 2015, we know why. He finished 1st three times, 3rd twice, his first 2 years, and 2nd twice.
Made the playoff 3 times, and on the verge, one game away from the playoffs 4 other times. Could have made the playoffs every season but one. Yes I know, could have but didn’t.

Now many of you will look at it, and say, well this coach or that coach, and that is fine. I understand that. I am right here also. One can say, salary cap, we were worse off than those other teams. Everyone will have their reasons as to why or why not.
But if one looks back and see how he was limited to get better players, cap issues, old players, injured QB almost every year at some point.

But if you look at the past 4 years only, since they have been drafting better, cap issues resolved after all the dead money coming off the books now. And see what direction they are going. Maybe it is not so much Garrett. But we do know it is Linehan for sure being an issue. Garrett seems to be taking the role as Jimmy did. Let the coaches coach, and he will oversee it all. However, I feel he needed to intervene more often and override some of those decisions. Maybe he did or did not, we do not know how all that sideline stuff goes down. We can only speculate. There will be fans that will criticize regardless.

I still prefer a new HC and OC. And entire new set up and direction. But I can live with Garrett for another year, since they get a new OC. If Garrett gets an extension, then I hope they get the OC figured out, and not see the same old stuff going forward.

Why am I posting this, it is not to defend Garrett. And not to knock Garrett. Just looking at it from different viewpoint, as opposed to the constant bashing all the time.

:popcorn:

9 seasons. 2 playoff wins. Unless you are in Cincinnati that gets every other coach in the NFL fired. He would not get another job. How many of his guys are head coaches? 9 seasons. Guy sucks. Irrefutable.
 

Bob-Lillys-War

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Sean McVay has a coaching tree. Of course his process is two years instead of Garrett's ten to twenty.

"The addition of Jon Kitna means there have been 19 coaches to work under Garrett on the offensive side of the ball in his eight full seasons as head coach. Name the assistants who have left his staff to oversee the offense of another NFL team.

None. "

- sportsday
 

Idgit

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Why is this supposed to be newsworthy or surprising? We’ve got two retirement-aged coordinators and have had them for years now. Eberflus and Richard and now maybe even Moore are options for jobs down the road. If any of them had been coordinators already there’d probably be a tree already.
 
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