A look back, Garrett may not be so bad afterall

Idgit

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we havent' consistently beat good team since Jimmy.

We beat some good teams despite Switzer. he sucked.

By this board’s standard, we have to allow that Switzer was a good coach. I don’t have a dog in that fight, just pointing out the problem with that standard.

We’ve been a good team since 2014, with a wasted season in 2015 due to Romo’s injury.
 

fansince68

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Garrett was is and will be a great HC.
But he is a bad OC and/or playcaller.

What we are going to witness right now - Moore to OC or/and Garrett taking over playcalling duties - is not a change to the better.

Linehan was forced to use Garretts scheme. Now Moore, another Garrett puppet will do the same..Even with the nightmare himself maybe calling plays.

I see this offense sputter and being non creative (stubborn) like it was in the past. Why ? As i said. Because it was Garretts scheme and offensive philosiphy.

If we want to have a change get an OC who is allowed to bring in his own scheme and let him gameplan and call the plays. Let Garrett be only the HC. He is great at that. But thats it.
How can Garrett currently BE a great coach and WILL BE a great coach at the same time?
 

Sydla

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It’s often said, by me, because it has the benefit of being entirely accurate. Some just don’t want to believe it and instead prefer to remain confused as to “what exactly Jason does in Dallas.”

The reality is, there’s a clear demarcation in what we did to acquire player personnel that started when Garrett was hired and immediately after the reorganization of the scouting department we implemented when he got here. It wasn’t by magic, and it wasn’t by conincidence.

And yes, scouting, coaching, and the front office do all work together on these things.

The suggestion that Garrett was the impetus of a total change in the front office is an exaggeration. You brought up McClay’s name as if he was a product of Garrett’s influence on the front office but that’s false. It was well reported that McClay was elevated by Jerry because he wanted someone between Garrett and the coaches and the scouts. He needed a point person to filter the information from both sides.
 

TheDude

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First and a 2nd to move up to #5? It wasn’t the trade. They didn’t nail the pick.

True. It was the trade as it was for a CB ( they never interviewed) or he ceded the pick to Fat Rob.

It was essentially guaranteed to fail.
 

Idgit

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The suggestion that Garrett was the impetus of a total change in the front office is an exaggeration. You brought up McClay’s name as if he was a product of Garrett’s influence on the front office but that’s false. It was well reported that McClay was elevated by Jerry because he wanted someone between Garrett and the coaches and the scouts. He needed a point person to filter the information from both sides.

It isn’t, though. McClay was elevated first to director of football research in Garrett’s first offseason. That position oversaw technology and analytics and was where he found Robinson and Selvie. What you’re talking about was his 2nd well-earned promotion after the dust-up in the draft room with Ciskowski.

We hadn’t drafted an OL in the first round since Niland and then drafted the first of 3 in succession. McClay only ran the draft that took Martin, IIRC.

If you think something was well-reported, though, by all means report it. It won’t change the fact that we overhauled the draft and player evaluation process when Garrett came in as head coach.
 

DandyDon52

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I’m saying what I’ve always said: there completely overhauled their process for drafting and developing players when Garrett took over for Wade. They changed the personnel and the structure of the scouting department to match what Garrett wanted. They elevated McClay. Yes, Garrett gets credit for the drafting.

You really think the Cooper trade happened without the blessing of the HC??? Seriously?
that is all speculation.
And yes if the jones boys wanted Amari, it would not matter what JG thought about it.
I am speculating too.
 

Idgit

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that is all speculation.
And yes if the jones boys wanted Amari, it would not matter what JG thought about it.
I am speculating too.

It’s not speculation. It’s what happened and what was reported at the time.
 

ConstantReboot

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Garrett was is and will be a great HC.
But he is a bad OC and/or playcaller.

What we are going to witness right now - Moore to OC or/and Garrett taking over playcalling duties - is not a change to the better.

Linehan was forced to use Garretts scheme. Now Moore, another Garrett puppet will do the same..Even with the nightmare himself maybe calling plays.

I see this offense sputter and being non creative (stubborn) like it was in the past. Why ? As i said. Because it was Garretts scheme and offensive philosiphy.

If we want to have a change get an OC who is allowed to bring in his own scheme and let him gameplan and call the plays. Let Garrett be only the HC. He is great at that. But thats it.

I agree to what you say. But I disagree that Garrett is a great head coach. I frankly think he is awful. He is stuck in his ways and never makes the right adjustments to make this team better. His offense is still the same ole' boring and predictable scheme. He never once made changes to it that would otherwise utilize Daks legs and defenses bent on stopping the run. So I don't think he's a good coach.
 

Beast_from_East

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So much nonsense in this thread. Compare Garrett to the rest of the league and he’s won more games than most. Compare him to recent coaches under Jones and he’s won more games than most. Look at the youth and talent on our roster and the condition of our cap and we’re better off than most.

We haven’t bee able to beat the best teams in the league since Jimmy/Switzer left. There’s a reason for that, and it isn’t the current head coach. People don’t want to hear it, but there’s a reason the players love him and the front office extends him.

What needs to change to get the Cowboys back on top is above Jason Garrett’s paygrade. I get so tired of the rest of you giving the real problem a pass and just being content with the mediocrity.
I dont get chubbys for regular season wins, maybe you do, I dont know.


I compare Garrett to the rest of the league based on his playoff record...………………in comparison, HE SUCKS;)
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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He's an average to above average head coach.

Frankly, for some, that's good enough because I think some are just afraid that it could be worse.

"Afraid" is an unwarranted emotional assertion. Risk management is what it is and at the end of the day if you take a random replacement, he is more likely to be worse than Garrett.

To me that means this notion that we need to replace him at all costs without a replacement is folly.

I remember the last time I participated in the hackneyed discussion, Andrew Gase was supposed to be the golden boy.

Personally, I am telling you that I am all for an upgrade and if a Sean Payton type candidate becomes available and willing then great. Just don't tell me that lottery tickets are a better investment than an above average yield.
 

baltcowboy

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Garrett is a good coach. I just think our fan base and trolls want something new to talk about. Do you really think Harbaugh, Tomlin, and Pederson is that much better? Some people will get their wish when Kellen Moore is named head coach for the 2020 season.
 

Buzzbait

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Have you paid attention to the league , that's the coaching in the league, you say keep trying, then you're spinning your wheels, an above average coach is good in any grading sysyem.
You change coach, you change philophies as well, then you affect the qb, it's a problem we had constantly changing Dcs. Our D only got better with continuity .

If your QB is playing at the top of his game, affecting the QB as you say would not be a good thing.
BUT.....a new coach could help a QB like Dak to get better. That's what happened to Goff. I'm not sure JG helps anybody get better,
 

Buzzbait

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All you need to judge The Clapping Carrot is an eye test, and obviously his inability to succeed in the post season. His time should be up now!

Garrett is a post season wannabe but neverwill.
 

Buzzbait

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He just seems like a 8-8 or 9-7 coach. And look what happens everytime we get to the playoffs. We are just flat. This last game just looked like a different team than the regular season. I expected a better effort.

Exactly. Some keep harping on how the team always plays hard for him. What happened against the Rams?
Like you said glim, look what happens every time we get to the playoffs.
Garrett can keep up with the regular season teams, but when the competition stiffens for the playoffs, Garrett wilts.
 

RD21

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We got the shaft as fans this year. They played pretty good down the stretch, then crapped the bed vs. the Rams. It was just enough to take you from not believing to kinda believing. It was exactly what I hoped it wasn't lol. I went into the Rams game believing we could win. Then we get embarrassed, & were never really close to competing in that game. I don't think it was as close as the score says. They straight up punked us. The Rams punched us in the mouth, took our lunch money, & pulled our pants down, in front of everybody. That is Garrett's legacy so far, imo. He's getting better but, by the time he figures it out, if ever, this next round of good players we have will be past their prime, or playing for someone else..... Sad.

I think it'll be really tough to get back there. Playing a 1st place schedule, & making it through the whole regular season without losing key players to injury will be tough.
 

northerncowboynation

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A look back at Garrett’s record with us. Is he really that bad or that good.

Circumstances play a lot into it, beyond a coaches control.
I am not sure what I am trying to say with this, just looking at is from a different perspective than I have over the past year or so. Not meant to be negative or positive. But seems more positive though.

He took over for Wade after a 1-7 start in 2010. He led the team to a 5-3 record. Then took over in 2011 as his first full season.
But before that, when he came in for the 2007 season, the team was 13-3, 9-7, 11-5, as they won the NFCE twice, and the offense was pretty good. But yet many still knocked the offense. These are Garrett led offenses.
So in his first full offseason, he started dumping the over paid, aging under performing players. Especially the OL. Strapped in salary cap hell, the rebuild started. And it was going to take time.

And don’t forget the defenses and switching from 4-3 to 3-4, had to hire Wade, to keep the 3-4 going, then spawn of Buddy Ryan, then back to the 4-3, that set this team back 12 years. I think they are just now recovering from all of that. While trying to fix it all and plus keep the team competitive.

So he goes 3 straight 8-8, win and in games and lost 3 times. With still a roster devoid of talent. Romo in the 1st 2 years of those 8-8 seasons, threw late game picks and cost us those games. People want to blame Jason, well, look at Tony as well. That 3rd season, Tony brought us back with his injured back to beat Washington, with some late game last play TD. However, it was Kyle Orton that threw that game ending pick, at home to the Eagles to knock us out that year.

Yes win other games where there were screw ups then that last game may not matter. And I do not believe the “ice your own K” game was on Garrett for that particular moment. Maybe other decisions, too far back to remember, or care.

Then all healthy, the 12-4 season, that we were robbed in GB. Yes some coaching gaffes in that game if one wants to be critical. But Garrett didn’t tell Murray to be loose with the ball that would have been a TD. Therefore those other decisions may not have to been in play. Like to me, go for the first down, not throw to Dez. That was a messed up call. Bt many teams do this, not just Garrett / Linehan.

Then the injury plagued 2015 season. Not on Garrett at all. No Tony, No Lee a good part of the time. Injuries on the D as well. Was that the year they used like 18 different DL. Or maybe it was 2013.
2016, another Tony injury. Did anyone truly think from that point on, this team was going to do anything at all, if Tony did come back. He was always a hit away from missing time.

So enter Dak and Zeke. And a magical season. That ended in a heartbreaking loss. A game that the D let us down yet again, as Dak brought us back and went toe to toe with a GOAT candidate. Again GB got help from the refs. But also there were some dumb play calls, a few decisions that we questioned. Like that stupid bubble screen that GB was waiting on and intercepted, negating a possible TD. But in hindsight, crap happens to many teams.

2017, robbed by the NFL with the Zeke situation. Not Garrett’s fault, however this was where I lost it for Garrett. I still think they had some chances to win 2 games, but decisions blew it. I think this staff had many blown decisions that may have made a difference otherwise, even just to win one more game. But then again injuries to Lee and Smith did not help t all. Especially in that Atlanta game.

Now there were some very questionable choices in quite a few games during this 8-8 season, could have been 9-7 and in. Even in 2017 season, same thing, make the right call, maybe we are 10-6 and in. However, no one can say if the right call was made, we would have won. The other team gets paid to go and score again.

So to 2018, 3-5, Garrett talks to the team, Cooper comes in, and they finish 10-6, and 1-1 in the playoffs. And more seems to be on Linehan than Garrett. As it seems in those last 8 games and 2 playoff games, Garrett made many correct calls. None that cost us a loss.

However a few early games he had a few questionable calls, like in the Houston game, but were they really all that questionable. That can be debated, and no one would be right or wrong. Well in their own opinions anyway.
He wins the NFCE 3 of 5 years, and one year injuries galore, and one year we were cheated by the NFL.
Garrett finished last in the division one year, 2015, we know why. He finished 1st three times, 3rd twice, his first 2 years, and 2nd twice.
Made the playoff 3 times, and on the verge, one game away from the playoffs 4 other times. Could have made the playoffs every season but one. Yes I know, could have but didn’t.

Now many of you will look at it, and say, well this coach or that coach, and that is fine. I understand that. I am right here also. One can say, salary cap, we were worse off than those other teams. Everyone will have their reasons as to why or why not.
But if one looks back and see how he was limited to get better players, cap issues, old players, injured QB almost every year at some point.

But if you look at the past 4 years only, since they have been drafting better, cap issues resolved after all the dead money coming off the books now. And see what direction they are going. Maybe it is not so much Garrett. But we do know it is Linehan for sure being an issue. Garrett seems to be taking the role as Jimmy did. Let the coaches coach, and he will oversee it all. However, I feel he needed to intervene more often and override some of those decisions. Maybe he did or did not, we do not know how all that sideline stuff goes down. We can only speculate. There will be fans that will criticize regardless.

I still prefer a new HC and OC. And entire new set up and direction. But I can live with Garrett for another year, since they get a new OC. If Garrett gets an extension, then I hope they get the OC figured out, and not see the same old stuff going forward.

Why am I posting this, it is not to defend Garrett. And not to knock Garrett. Just looking at it from different viewpoint, as opposed to the constant bashing all the time.

:popcorn:

Very good summary of the years under JG as OC and HC. For me it's crazy that some fans won't give him credit as an OC from 2007 through 2009 when the offense was humming. The credit is given to Romo yet those same fans say today that a great offensive game caller like McVay is a large part of the reason for the Rams success. If that is fact and not hyperbole then JG surely had some hand in the 2007-2009 success as the OC

I've also seen it written that the 8-8 years would have been far more dismal without Romo because the offense was still put up big points. Again, I give some credit to JG as the offensive play caller. Yes, he had his foibles with clock management. Nice summary on the switch from a 4-3 defense to a 3-4. It did set us back on defense.

I have no personal ties to JG whatsoever and if we were to replace him as HC I wouldn't shed a tear or lose a minute of sleep. I would be somewhat suspect of the impact that a new HC would have. Could any coach work under the watchful, always involved, non-restricted, unedited, often off the cuff comments of JJ the owner and GM. I give JG complete credit for holding the team together from 2016-2018 under these conditions: 2016, starting and backup QBs gone for the season and a rookie 4'th rounder; 2017 the Zeke fiasco that was ongoing 2 weeks before and through the entire season; 2018 a bad 3-5 start to the season.

Yes, it would be great to see more playoff success. I'll live with JG as HC for another year. Won't even be concerned if he has more input in game play calling. I was critical of choosing Kellen Moore as QB coach but I keep reading that he has a great football mind. In fact, I will believe that as quickly as emotional fan comments about how Prescott regressed and Moore is the reason.

Truly wish there wasn't a 7 month wait between football seasons because we won't have any answers until the 2019 season rolls around. We surely won't find answers on the Fanzone, only opinions
 

Buzzbait

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It's always been an interesting argument. On one hand, the team, or more specifically Garrett, failed to advance in 2014 and 2016 because they didn't have the talent on defense to win so how can you hold that against Garrett? So in other words, according to some, 6 years after Garrett revamped and overhauled player acquisitions and player development, they still didn't have enough defensive talent.

That apparently isn't Garrett's fault though. That's simply one of the pitfalls of working with Jerry.........

But as you said, win a few games and think the team is on the upswing, suddenly the improving roster, heading into Year 9 is largely due to Garrett.............. until the team inevitably fails to do anything of note, then it's Garrett simply can't be judged based on a flawed roster.

And the wheel just keeps going around and around......

…… and around and around....
The story changes to support the argument of the moment.
 

JayFord

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I’ll give Garrett credit...the team does not give up on him

But his ceiling is the divisional round as oc/HC he’s been there 5 times and loss all 5

And his decision making is infuriating.....it usually takes a heart wrenching loss for him to change what does not work when he knows it does not work .....(punting it on 4th and 1 against Houston. Mismanagement of the clock against Washington, the losses to gb and det when all you had to do was run the ball, freezing your own kicker ,misusing the clock against Baltimore)
 

Idgit

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I dont get chubbys for regular season wins, maybe you do, I dont know.


I compare Garrett to the rest of the league based on his playoff record...………………in comparison, HE SUCKS;)

I do get chubbies for regular season wins. I think they’re great. They’re hard to come by.

Remember back when Garrett could “never get us over .500”? Because I do.

Remember when he could never consistently get us to the playoffs? Because I do.

Remember when it was Tony Romo carrying him and that was the only reason we were even decent—-because we had an elite QB? Because, well, I do.

Remember when he couldn’t win big games, like sweeping the Eagles or getting past the Seahawks in the first round of the playoffs? When he couldn’t win the East with any regularity? We couldn’t draft well? Manage the cap well? Remember making fun of what the right kinds of guys was like?

Because I remember all that stupidity. And I recognize it was all wrong. Instead , what we talk about now is how to get a little bit better overall so we can compete with the very top teams like the Rams and Saints. Teams that are better—but not a lot better—than we are right now.

At least, that’s what I want to talk about. Other people want to talk some more about moving the goalposts, again, on a coach who isn’t the limiting factor.

And hey, I’m all for upgrading anywhere if there’s an option available. I wasn’t a Linehan fan. I recognize Sean Payton is an upgrade at HC. But that’s really unlikely. Upgrading the roster to that next level is actually do-able, though. Which is why I want to do it. Doesn’t that make sense?
 

Dre11

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If your QB is playing at the top of his game, affecting the QB as you say would not be a good thing.
BUT.....a new coach could help a QB like Dak to get better. That's what happened to Goff. I'm not sure JG helps anybody get better,

You also don't know either, Dak came into the league as a 4th rounder who everybody said wasn't ready, he proceeded to be rookie of the Year, in the running for MVP, out played Geoff and Wentz, who was his coach then?
 
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