Rumor: DLaw looking for 100mils / 70 guaranteed

[Nightman]

A "bad two years" that got two 1st round picks and $141 million for him. Not "too bad"...



How about tied for 2nd in 2017? Elite.

2017 was a bad year for Sacks and that was DLaw's best by far in 5 seasons...... not elite

 

[DandyDon52]

I went back and reviewed the Rams game, Lawrence wasn't the problem, in fact several of the long run plays were run on the opposite side from Lawrence. And many of the passes that were completed were quick throws, no DE is getting sacks in that case. And the fact is that many of the runs were up the middle, Lawrence has responsibility for protecting the edge, again, not his fault.

I have no problem with paying Lawrence the big buck, though I'm not keen on $70 mil guaranteed, due to his back and other problems, if he'd had none of those, $70 mil guaranteed isn't that much of a concern....

Ok but the bottom line is he wasnt a factor in the game, that is partly on coaches, who can move him around, he doesnt have to play the DE.
But if a player is a non factor in playoffs, he isnt worth big money.
But like I say let the jones boys worry about all that, it isnt like they are going to listen to us and say hmm they are right lets do this or that.

 

[Sydla]

This is true, but the 70 mil is very large indeed.

If his contract is structured like other players, the $70MM might not be that important either as it would likely carry an out for the Cowboys prior to him even hitting the $70MM in guarantees.

Because what's guaranteed at signing will be less. The extra guarantees wouldn't kick in until later down the road. Everyone focuses on things like Mack's $90MM in guarantees but he was only guaranteed $60MM at signing. The other $30MM came in guarantees down the road but gave the Bears an out before those guarantees kick in.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

These are 4-3 defensive end contracts. D-Laws contract will be similar to what you see with Chandler Jones maybe a little more. He's going to have a hard time arguing for a lot more, even on the open market.

https://overthecap.com/position/4-3-defensive-end/

Found this too; first figure is guaranteed at signing.

1
Olivier Vernon
DEFENSIVE END $40,500,000 47.65% $52,500,000 61.76%
3
Chandler Jones
DEFENSIVE END $31,000,000 37.58% $51,000,000 61.82%
2
J.J. Watt
DEFENSIVE END $30,881,810 30.88% $51,876,000 51.87%
8
Myles Garrett
DEFENSIVE END $30,412,255 100% $30,412,255 100%

Calais Campbell
DEFENSIVE END $30,000,000 50% $30,000,000 50%
4
Jason Pierre-Paul
DEFENSIVE END $28,500,000 45.97% $40,000,000 64.52%

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It means it's a factor. A factor for why his numbers weren't better in 2016, and one the naysayers want to ignore. Unless they're using it against him for his asking price, but not as a reason for why his numbers weren't up to par that year. It's a clear double-standard when judging him. The same way some want to talk about his performance down the stretch in 2018, while ignoring the role his torn labrum played in it.

That may, or may not be true but what difference? Again, the back problems are not a reason to give him more money of time. It's a reason not to. Besides, his back problems were not over a period of two seasons and what's more, the numbers get worse if you project them over 5 years for Lawrence. Bottom line, his back is not the reason Mack has outperformed him over the 5 years each player has been in the league. Mack is just better. You can say it's the back or whatever but end of day, it doesn't matter. Mack is just better at this point and if you really look at Mack's contract, you will see that Lawrence is not just demanding Mack type money, which he is not worth, but much better then Mack money.

If he gets that money, so be it but I wouldn't give it to him and you would have to present much more convincing proof then what has been discussed here to convince me that Lawrence deserves that type of contract. It's certainly not merited on performance IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If his contract is structured like other players, the $70MM isn't all that important either.

Because what's guaranteed at signing will be less. The extra guarantees wouldn't kick in until later down the road. Everyone focuses on things like Mack's $86MM in guarantees but he was only guaranteed $50MM at signing. The other $36MM came in guarantees down the road but gave the Bears an out before those guarantees kick in.

How do you figure that? 70 Mil guaranteed is 70 Mil. That's a lot of guaranteed money no matter how you figure it.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Also - I'd looked this up earlier for another forum, and I figure I'll share it here. There are only 8 players who've put up double digit sacks for both of the last two years, and D-Law is one of them.

-Mack
-Von Miller
-Donald
-Ryan Kerrigan (crazy underrated)
-Cam Jordan
-Calais Campbell
-Chandler Jones

Breaking down what they all make:

Mack has a megadeal.
Miller has a megadeal.
Donald has a megadeal.
Campbell signed for $15 mil/year as a 31 year old in 2017.
Jones signed for $17 mil/year in 2017.
Kerrigan is somehow only making $11.5 million a year, even though he has 60 sacks over the last 5 years (I think Miller has like 64). He signed in 2015.
Jordan signed an $11 mil/year contract in 2015.

So if you're looking at it, you are either going to pay D-Law Chandler Jones money plus two years of cap inflation (13%) at the least, let him walk, or hop in a Delorean and sign him to an extension after his sophomore year in 2015.

Chandler Jones money plus 13% would be 5 years 93 million, so that's really about in line with the $100 million figure we've been seeing. I know CZ gets sticker shock easily, but $19-$20 million a season is fair market value for D-Law.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Ok but the bottom line is he wasnt a factor in the game, that is partly on coaches, who can move him around, he doesnt have to play the DE.
But if a player is a non factor in playoffs, he isnt worth big money.
But like I say let the jones boys worry about all that, it isnt like they are going to listen to us and say hmm they are right lets do this or that.

Hard to be a factor when the run is to the opposite side of the formation, or a back swings out to the flat and Lawrence has to cover him as a potential receiver, and a throw is made down the field.

Every great player has been a non-factor in big games, to say he has to be a factor regardless of scheme and plays made by the offense is just wrong...

 

[Mobinvans]

We don't got to pay da man. We got to get value for our dollars.
Guaranteeing a ton of money on an overpriced contract is bad bad bad.

Cap room does what for us?....
Nothing.....

You cant not use Free Agency like we dont and than let your stars walk

 

[Stash]

Mack is a world class player far about DLaw. Mack is worth the money...DLaw not so much.

And yet Lawrence has better numbers? OK. I guess you can just assign descriptions with no support.

 

[Stash]

2017 was a bad year for Sacks and that was DLaw's best by far in 5 seasons...... not elite

No, you don't get to set some sort of made up qualifiers on it to try to make it less than what it was.

Sorry.

 

[Nightman]

Mack is a world class player far about DLaw. Mack is worth the money...DLaw not so much.

But even with the trade KMack did not match his compensation this year.....2- 1sts and 143m for 12 Sacks and 10 TFL is not close to enough

 

[Sydla]

How do you figure that? 70 Mil guaranteed is 70 Mil. That's a lot of guaranteed money no matter how you figure it.

Because in many cases there is a guaranteed at signing and then a potential guarantee. For example, people say Chandler Jones' new contract carries $51MM in guaranteed money. But that's not technically true. He was guaranteed $31MM at signing. The other $20MM in guarantees kicks in further down the contract. He was guaranteed $31MM at signing which included his signing bonus of $15MM + his 2017 salary of $7MM + $9MM of his $12.5MM 2019 salary.

Nothing else was guaranteed at that time. The other $20MM in guarantees would kick in later. For example, if he was on the roster as of March 2018, the remaining $2.5MM of his 2018 salary would be guaranteed + $11MM of his 2019 salary. If he's on the roster as of March 2019, then $5MM of his 2019 salary becomes guaranteed.

Now it should be noted, there is obviously some cap pain in terms of dead money if you want to avoid any future guarantees by cutting the guy.

 

[Nightman]

No, you don't get to set some sort of made up qualifiers on it to try to make it less than what it was.

Sorry.

Yes I can

14 sacks is not elite in any year even if it ranks 2nd

 

[Stash]

That may, or may not be true but what difference? Again, the back problems are not a reason to give him more money of time. It's a reason not to. Besides, his back problems were not over a period of two seasons and what's more, the numbers get worse if you project them over 5 years for Lawrence.

Actually, they were "over two seasons. He had one surgeyr that didn't properly correct the issue and then a follow-up the next year, remember?

Bottom line, his back is not the reason Mack has outperformed him over the 5 years each player has been in the league. Mack is just better. You can say it's the back or whatever but end of day, it doesn't matter.

Oh, OK, it "doesn't matter"... It sounds like there's an awful lot you either don't know or choose to ignore as "doesn't matter" when it goes against your claims.

Mack is just better at this point and if you really look at Mack's contract, you will see that Lawrence is not just demanding Mack type money, which he is not worth, but much better then Mack money.

In what way is he demanding "better than Mack money"?

If he gets that money, so be it but I wouldn't give it to him and you would have to present much more convincing proof then what has been discussed here to convince me that Lawrence deserves that type of contract. It's certainly not merited on performance IMO.

It's obvious that your mind is made up, and not all the facts or stats in the world will change it. I'm fine with that, but just don't try to make up your own facts to support that opinion.

 

[Nightman]

Because in many cases there is a guaranteed at signing and then a potential guarantee. For example, people say Chandler Jones' new contract carries $51MM in guaranteed money. But that's not technically true. He was guaranteed $31MM at signing. The other $20MM in guarantees kicks in further down the contract. He was guaranteed $31MM at signing which included his signing bonus of $15MM + his 2017 salary of $7MM + $9MM of his $12.5MM 2019 salary.

Nothing else was guaranteed at that time. The other $20MM in guarantees would kick in later. For example, if he was on the roster as of March 2018, the remaining $2.5MM of his 2018 salary would be guaranteed + $11MM of his 2019 salary. If he's on the roster as of March 2019, then $5MM of his 2019 salary becomes guaranteed.

that is a technicality.... no team is going to cut a guy after giving him 15-30m signing bonus and salary for 1 year

year 2 guarantees are all but guaranteed and they are guaranteed for injury

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Because in many cases there is a guaranteed at signing and then a potential guarantee. For example, people say Chandler Jones' new contract carries $51MM in guaranteed money. But that's not technically true. He was guaranteed $31MM at signing. The other $20MM in guarantees kicks in further down the contract. He was guaranteed $31MM at signing which included his signing bonus of $15MM + his 2017 salary of $7MM + $9MM of his $12.5MM 2019 salary.

Nothing else was guaranteed at that time. The other $20MM in guarantees would kick in later. For example, if he was on the roster as of March 2018, the remaining $2.5MM of his 2018 salary would be guaranteed + $11MM of his 2019 salary. If he's on the roster as of March 2019, then $5MM of his 2019 salary becomes guaranteed.

OK, but that doesn't matter. It's still guaranteed which means you still owe it to the player and it still takes up cap space. I mean, up front or down the road, it's guaranteed.

 

[Stash]

Yes I can

14 sacks is not elite in any year even if it ranks 2nd

2nd in the league in sacks is "elite", just like the way you tried to point to being 18th as "not elite". Unless you're being blatantly hypocritical?

 

[Sydla]

that is a technicality.... no team is going to cut a guy after giving him 15-30m signing bonus and salary for 1 year

year 2 guarantees are all but guaranteed and they are guaranteed for injury

It doesn't have to be after one year. It could be after 3 depending on the contract. It clearly involves some dead money pain as well.

 

[Nightman]

2nd in the league in sacks is "elite", just like the way you tried to point to being 18th as "not elite". Unless you're being blatantly hypocritical?

that is ridiculous

every year stands alone..... 14 sacks is not an elite season for a pass rusher