Are the Cowboys really that far away

Diehardblues

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I don't feel like our roster has been the issue as much as coaching has been.

With Garrett of course the roster has to be on another level because of his coaching style but he is holding the team back more then the roster is.

The truth is most of these NFL rosters are not that good. They're all similar and every team has holes which makes QB and Schemes more important then the rest of the roster.


The Patriots team is not that good. They have holes. IT just doesn't matter because they have unbelievable schemes and a Wizard QB and Coach.
It’s why elite QB are so critical. Unfortunately elite coaching isn’t an asset Jerry’s agendas will allow which makes us more talent dependent.

If we’re depending on coaching to take us over the hump we’re screwed. We’ve only become a better team because of our talent. And if we don’t have enough elite talent in key positions it’s going to cost us.
 

CATCH17

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One, it's a stretch to say they played at an elite level on defense. They were very good, but not Top 3, which is what I would call elite.

And one reason they weren't elite? They were average to below average against the pass, which in part, is due to the fact we were average at getting to the QB overall.

Which is funny considering our undoing in the playoffs was our strength - stopping the run.

I felt like they were elite for the season because they were great at shutting down just about anything a team could throw at them.

I think not calling them elite would be an over analysis that we tend to do when we see them every sunday and don't watch a team like Baltimore who is considered elite and we don't watch them every Sunday to see their struggles.

Regardless, it's no worse then top 5 so whether it was 3, 4, or 5 is splitting hairs.
 

CATCH17

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It’s why elite QB are so critical. Unfortunately elite coaching isn’t an asset Jerry’s agendas will allow which makes us more talent dependent.

If we’re depending on coaching to take us over the hump we’re screwed. We’ve only become a better team because of our talent.

Oh we're screwed as long as Garrett is here. No doubt about it.


We keep Garrett.

Dak is not elite

We skip Free Agency.


How are we going to win a Superbowl when we don't value quality coaching, we pay average QB's elite money, and we only bring in rookies to improve the team?

Even Romo's contract was absurd because he was paid like he had won something and instead of building a roster we paid a QB and got no results because of that contract and head coach.
 

Diehardblues

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I wonder what a top notch HC and OC can do with this talent?
Unfortunately that’s not an asset Jerry’s agendas will allow and why talent is our best solution.

Talent we’ve added after all is why we’ve come this far.
 

OmerV

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I wonder what a top notch HC and OC can do with this talent?

We aren't getting a new HC, so that can't factor into what we can do to improve in 2019, and why I requested that we don't let this thread devolve into a discussion outside the realm of what is possible to do this offseason. As for OC, while I agree what we have had has been inadequate, and while I am apprehensive about an OC as inexperienced as Moore, I'm willing to at least give him a shot before criticizing too much. It is a concern though.
 

Sydla

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I felt like they were elite for the season because they were great at shutting down just about anything a team could throw at them.

I think not calling them elite would be an over analysis that we tend to do when we see them every sunday and don't watch a team like Baltimore who is considered elite and we don't watch them every Sunday to see their struggles.

Regardless, it's no worse then top 5 so whether it was 3, 4, or 5 is splitting hairs.

By no measure were they top 5. 6th in scoring defense, 7th in total yards, 8th in Football Outsiders DVOA.

Further, if you really drill down.............. they were 5th in rushing yards allowed but 13th in passing yards allowed. They were 22nd in passer rating allowed, but 4th in rushing yards per attempt.

In other words, they weren't all that good at defending against the pass and part of that is they simply weren't all that great at getting to the QB. We can ignore the stats all we want but they are what they are. If this defense wants to be truly "elite", they have to be better at getting after the QB IMO. And that can come from better DE play, or getting more interior pressure out of some new DTs, or a scheme change were we blitz Jaylon Smith more, etc.
 

Diehardblues

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Oh we're screwed as long as Garrett is here. No doubt about it.


We keep Garrett.

Dak is not elite

We skip Free Agency.


How are we going to win a Superbowl when we don't value quality coaching, we pay average QB's elite money, and we only bring in rookies to improve the team?
No doubt it definitely makes it tougher but we’ve come this far with more talent perhaps a few more pieces at the right position could help. Not sure what other choices we have with Jerry’s agendas?
 

Ranching

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We aren't getting a new HC, so that can't factor into what we can do to improve in 2019, and why I requested that we don't let this thread devolve into a discussion outside the realm of what is possible to do this offseason. As for OC, while I agree what we have had has been inadequate, and while I am apprehensive about an OC as inexperienced as Moore, I'm willing to at least give him a shot before criticizing too much. It is a concern though.
I am optimistic about Moore as well. He should be an upgrade. Just can't help but wonder.....
 

Diehardblues

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We aren't getting a new HC, so that can't factor into what we can do to improve in 2019, and why I requested that we don't let this thread devolve into a discussion outside the realm of what is possible to do this offseason. As for OC, while I agree what we have had has been inadequate, and while I am apprehensive about an OC as inexperienced as Moore, I'm willing to at least give him a shot before criticizing too much. It is a concern though.
Correct. Senseless wasting time on issues we know we can’t improve on this year.
 

OmerV

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Oh we're screwed as long as Garrett is here. No doubt about it.


We keep Garrett.

Dak is not elite

We skip Free Agency.


How are we going to win a Superbowl when we don't value quality coaching, we pay average QB's elite money, and we only bring in rookies to improve the team?

Even Romo's contract was absurd because he was paid like he had won something and instead of building a roster we paid a QB and got no results because of that contract and head coach.
Unfortunately that’s not an asset Jerry’s agendas will allow and why talent is our best solution.

Talent we’ve added after all is why we’ve come this far.

Obviously I can't stop anyone from discussing what they want, but I did request that this thread be about what we can do this year in terms of player personnel, and not devolve into yet another thread about Jerry and Jason. In other words, let's discuss what the Cowboys can do to improve, not what we know isn't going to happen.
 

OmerV

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I am optimistic about Moore as well. He should be an upgrade. Just can't help but wonder.....

I don't know that he will be an upgrade, although I believe he is likely to be. My concern is just that regardless of how sharp and innovative and creative and instinctive he is, there is still something to be learned from experience, and he is lacking in that. Of course, a boatload of experience wasn't doing Linehan much good.
 

Diehardblues

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I am optimistic about Moore as well. He should be an upgrade. Just can't help but wonder.....
Hope is never a good plan but more of a prayer but that’s all we got right now until further evidence.

We wanted Linehan fired. This is the result :)
 

CATCH17

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Obviously I can't stop anyone from discussing what they want, but I did request that this thread be about what we can do this year in terms of player personnel, and not devolve into yet another thread about Jerry and Jason. In other words, let's discuss what the Cowboys can do to improve, not what we know isn't going to happen.

I didn't read your original post so sorry for that but that is what it usually always comes back to when we look for improvement.

Garrett has had every team imaginable and can't do anything with it so even if we finish 13-3 and get the 1 seed I wouldn't expect him to do anything with it because he will get out schemed most likely.
 

OmerV

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I didn't read your original post so sorry for that but that is what it usually always comes back to when we look for improvement.

Garrett has had every team imaginable and can't do anything with it so even if we finish 13-3 and get the 1 seed I wouldn't expect him to do anything with it because he will get out schemed most likely.

I don't disagree, although I would say we came just a rat's hair away from advancing in both 2014 and 2016, so even with Garrett's shortcomings just a little more help could push us further toward the goal. But, again, I would like to focus this on the player personnel issues, which I don't believe are insurmountable this offseason.
 

QuincyCarterEra

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Offensive personnel when healthy: 7
Defensive personnel when healthy: 7.5
Special teams: -2
Coaching: 6

Those last two will probably be our Achilles heal
 

OmerV

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Sorry OP, I don't think you talk about being far away without talking about coaching changes.
Everything else is musical chairs.

So, we keep saying Jason sucks over and over? It's not going to change in 2019, and saying that repeatedly just sidetracks a discussion about what can do this offseason to get us closer to the goal. I think most of us agree Jason has shortcomings, but even with those we came a rats hair from advancing in both 2014 and 2016, so the hope is with improvements in other areas we can find a way to get past that rat's hair.
 

Cowboys22

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I was thinking about the Cowboys player personnel needs, and what has been posted on this site about those needs, and given that almost everyone has the same list, although not always in the same order, and given that it really boils down to about 3-4 important needs, I have to wonder if the Cowboys are really that far away from being the team we hope to see.

Let's not talk about Dak, because we won't draft a QB with a top pick, or Jerry and Jason who also won't be replaced for 2019. I know ... these are key roles, but for this thread let's talk about what is possible to address. If the mantra is only that the Cowboys have to suck with those guys, there are plenty of other threads to post that in.

It seems to me that the focus for most posters is solidly on 4 positions - S, DT, WR & TE, so, with so few major needs, I can't help but think the Cowboys have a realistic chance to address all of them.

SAFETY: If, as many think, ET is a target, signing him would address safety and take out one of the major needs.

DEFENSIVE TACKLE: Obviously not having a 1st rounder hurts the chances to find a strong one, so that could be the biggest impediment. Still, we could go heavy at DT in the draft to improve the odds, or maybe trade up. And who knows, there is at least an outside chance Irving could get his stuff together - don't jump on that though because I do not advocate treating the offseason as if that will happen, and in fact, I believe we should treat it as if it won't, and it will be bonus if we are wrong.

WIDE RECEIVER: The chances are improved by the fact we don't need a #1 because of the Cooper trade, and many, including myself, think Gallup will be a quality #2 with a year of experience under his belt. We are also helped by the fact Cooper can move into the slot whenever needed, so that gives us versatility and allows us to look for the best receiver rather than a specific type of receiver. We also may already have a strong candidate in house to step up in Cedrick Wilson, who the Cowboys liked as a rookie last year before he got hurt in training camp. Of course, Adam Humphries is a free agent, and many think he would be ideal to replace Beasley, but the general feeling is the Cowboys won't be willing to pay what it will take to get him. Golden Tate would also fall in that category. But there should be a lot of #3 receiver options in the draft, plus there are several proven free agents that might cost a little but not break the bank. On the small side, Jon Brown, Jamison Crowder and Kendall Wright, but with the flexibility we have with Cooper we could go for a bigger, stronger receiver like Donte Moncrief.

TIGHT END: My personal belief that I know some will disagree with is TE is not a position we need to stretch for because once the Cowboys started targeting Jarwin and Schultz late in the season we saw notable results. They won't make the position elite, but I don't think elite is necessary to make the team strong. If someone we like falls to the middle rounds, or we want to take a shot on a reasonably priced veteran like Eifert, who has talent but is often injured, that would be reasonable, but there are other areas I believe are much more important to address. Plus, if we can fill the #3 WR spot capably that minimizes the need for a top receiver at TE.

Obviously there are other areas that could stand to be upgraded (O-Line depth), but the above seem to be the biggies.


No discussion on this topic that involves only players is relevant. There is no combination of available players anywhere on this planet that can realistically be signed by the Cowboys that Jason Garrett can win a Super Bowl with. On the other hand, there likely are numerous football coaches that could possibly win a super bowl with the current roster. That is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end of any discussion about how far off the cowboys are from winning a super bowl. The answer is NEVER as long as Jason Garrett is the coach.
 

OmerV

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Offensive personnel when healthy: 7
Defensive personnel when healthy: 7.5
Special teams: -2
Coaching: 6

Those last two will probably be our Achilles heal
That's today, but what about the discussion of offseason improvements in the OP. Can the personnel issues improve?
 

JohnBoy

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Pretty much agree with you on every point. I would only add that for the TE position, receiving is only one part (I would argue less than half) of the important skillset. Where a good TE really helps the team is in blocking, something for which Witten rarely got the credit he deserved. Especially in a run-first team like our Cowboys, the TEs need to know how to block well.

Just my $0.02...
 
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