The Cowboys have 1st Rd pick talent

[jazzcat22]

Belichick has made a living at moving his marketable talent and keeps on winning. Why? Because he can find a guy that does the exact same things just as well but at the price he wants. Once a player outgrows what he wants to pay, then he finds another one.

He has been doing it for years, primarily because he knows what he wants and can evaluate talent.

We avoid getting veterans because we have a weak pro personnel group and really don't have a concrete plan on how to use the talent.

And usually most of those players are at the end of their careers or seem to be. They may have one or two very good years left. Some a little longer.
But yes he is very good still at making those trades and observations. Even if the player needs to be released.
The thing is, there is usually some sucker team willing to take those players because....hey he played under Bill, so he can help us too...

I know and understand what you are saying, but also, it is not rocket science to do that, it is just some or many teams do not do the same.
Which is Jerry's issue, he is too loyal to those players too often or for too long.

 

[SoupcanSam]

I see your point. Like a year before the player is ready to cash in, trade him for a first. I'm assuming you're talking about a few players now and then? This way you can still have good players, but good players mixed in with rookie contracts. So yeah, I would agree with that, but it isn't without risk. But I like the idea because you can't pay everyone.

Yes every now and then. I believe Will Mcclay would work wonders at this. In fact if we didnt have him this thread doesnt exist.

People have raved about will mcclay for years. Why not flex the muscle while we have position.

 

[SoupcanSam]

“High impact”...you mean like Randy Gregory, Taco Charlton and Dorrance Armstrong...those kinda high impact players?

Btw...who says Byron Jones would automatically bring a first-round pick?

Who says he wouldnt?

 

[JBell]

And usually most of those players are at the end of their careers or seem to be. They may have one or two very good years left. Some a little longer.
But yes he is very good still at making those trades and observations. Even if the player needs to be released.
The thing is, there is usually some sucker team willing to take those players because....hey he played under Bill, so he can help us too...

I know and understand what you are saying, but also, it is not rocket science to do that, it is just some or many teams do not do the same.
Which is Jerry's issue, he is too loyal to those players too often or for too long.

Being "loyal" has this team paying 20 mil to Sean Lee, Witten, and Hurns.

We could have another superstar on the team for the cap hit of those 3.

 

[Sydla]

I believe the argument is good either way because of the fact that we could hit big in drafting. There is definitely not a guarantee that doing such a task would completely bomb.

Youd also have to factor in the cost of the FA you want to sign to replace and if it's worth it. Cheaper FA most of the time means older, which could also mean less effective.

I'd rather have new young, cheap high motored talent in that position.

There's no guarantee that you'd draft players that would be immediately as competent as Lawrence and Jones as well.

It's very simple. If you keep trading away your best players and replacing them with draft picks, you won't win very much. Because you will constantly have a team that is too young, too green and possibly not very talented if you have a couple of bad drafts.

And you hit on another flawed line of thinking - we shouldn't sign/acquire an older player. That thinking is idiotic. It just is.

 

[jazzcat22]

Being "loyal" has this team paying 20 mil to Sean Lee, Witten, and Hurns.

We could have another superstar on the team for the cap hit of those 3.

Like ET.

 

[Flamma]

Yes every now and then. I believe Will Mcclay would work wonders at this. In fact if we didnt have him this thread doesnt exist.

People have raved about will mcclay for years. Why not flex the muscle while we have position.

The concept is solid. Same amount of good players, just some on rookie contracts via trades for firsts. Byron and DLaw would be my picks as well. Provided we could get first rounders for them. Even if Dallas replaced them specifically, it would be at a much lower cost for a number of years. Something has to give somewhere.

 

[SoupcanSam]

There's no guarantee that you'd draft players that would be immediately as competent as Lawrence and Jones as well.

It's very simple. If you keep trading away your best players and replacing them with draft picks, you won't win very much. Because you will constantly have a team that is too young, too green and possibly not very talented if you have a couple of bad drafts.

And you hit on another flawed line of thinking - we shouldn't sign/acquire an older player. That thinking is idiotic. It just is.

Idiotic!!!

Why do you think the FO moved away from that approach after so many years of doing it? Because it itsself was idiotic and more than not blew up in their faces.

In fact, youd rather them move away from the new approach that has been working.

Talk about idiotic.

 

[glimmerman]

Your trading away proven NFL talent for guys that we don’t know if they can make it at this level. Just because they have a number 1 grade don’t mean squat. Just ask the browns. Lol. Poor team seems to always have a couple of high first rounders and still can’t win a lot of games.

 

[Sydla]

Idiotic!!!

Why do you think the FO moved away from that approach after so many years of doing it? Because it itsself was idiotic and more than not blew up in their faces.

In fact, youd rather them move away from the new approach that has been working.

Talk about idiotic.

Like our front office, you deal in extremes. It doesn't have to be build a team through FA only or build a team straight through the draft only. There is a nice, big, wide gray area where you can build the base of your team through the draft and supplement it with a smart free agent signing or two, even if that player is older. The best teams in the league use both - they draft well and they add key FAs along the way, even if they are more veteran type FAs.

What we do now works? Really? What have we won? Nothing. Yes, they shifted from locking themselves into big FA deals to more drafting, but the results are largely the same - a team that has roster holes that typically falls short year after year. And the biggest reason for that now is this front office simply doesn't know how to or refuses to use FA to their advantage.

It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other here. No one is suggesting we just go all in on FA. You sound foolish when you try to argue that's what people are suggesting.

 

[SoupcanSam]

The concept is solid. Same amount of good players, just some on rookie contracts via trades for firsts. Byron and DLaw would be my picks as well. Provided we could get first rounders for them. Even if Dallas replaced them specifically, it would be at a much lower cost for a number of years. Something has to give somewhere.

We have never been as good drafting before just recently! Now it seems alot of these guys have panned out so nice that we have to pay out alot to keep them.

All of the horses are stampeding toward the finish line, what do you do now!

Not saying get rid of both Jones and tank.....but if you have this many horses nearing the finish line, then we may have something going here that we havent had in years.

I'd really jump at the opportunity with atleast on. Probably tank since byron may come a little cheaper contract wise.

 

[SoupcanSam]

Your trading away proven NFL talent for guys that we don’t know if they can make it at this level. Just because they have a number 1 grade don’t mean squat. Just ask the browns. Lol. Poor team seems to always have a couple of high first rounders and still can’t win a lot of games.

To be fair the browns were in most of their games and will be one of the better up and coming teams soon.

 

[glimmerman]

To be fair the browns were in most of their games and will be one of the better up and coming teams soon.

There change in leadership seems to be working and they seem to have finally found there starting QB. Lol. I am happy for them. We complain a lot about being 1 and done in the playoffs but could you imagine being a browns fan. I live in Florida and there is a lot of bucs fans here. They always expect to lose and have been that way for so many years that it has to be miserable for them.

 

[GenoT]

Who says he wouldnt?

Answering a question with an opposing question neither supports your OP’s supposition nor answers my question.

In other words, is there any citable consensus among recognized NFL trade/draft prognosticators predicting that Jones would command a first-rounder...or is this simply your assumption?

 

[Verdict]

“High impact”...you mean like Randy Gregory, Taco Charlton and Dorrance Armstrong...those kinda high impact players?

Btw...who says Byron Jones would automatically bring a first-round pick?

He didn't say he would net a first round pick. He said he would trade him if he could get a first round pick out of him. You could trade Byron for a first round pick, and it makes Tank's salary more palatable.

 

[SoupcanSam]

Like our front office, you deal in extremes. It doesn't have to be build a team through FA only or build a team straight through the draft only. There is a nice, big, wide gray area where you can build the base of your team through the draft and supplement it with a smart free agent signing or two, even if that player is older. The best teams in the league use both - they draft well and they add key FAs along the way, even if they are more veteran type FAs.

What we do now works? Really? What have we won? Nothing. Yes, they shifted from locking themselves into big FA deals to more drafting, but the results are largely the same - a team that has roster holes that typically falls short year after year. And the biggest reason for that now is this front office simply doesn't know how to or refuses to use FA to their advantage.

It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other here. No one is suggesting we just go all in on FA. You sound foolish when you try to argue that's what people are suggesting.

I'm not saying use one. I'm telling you that drafting, AND NOT FA is what the Cowboys have succeeded on mostly as of late.

You may tell me Cooper but cmon, that rarely even works out in Dallas and coop was still a rarely "do it yourself" kind of player.

The coaching was still bad and you and I both know had it been any other WR it more than likely doesnt play out like that. Just another boneheaded FA move by the cowboys it would have been.

I know the positions are different but FA overall have not been so kind to the cowboys while drafting has.

 

[SoupcanSam]

Answering a question with an opposing question neither supports your OP’s supposition nor answers my question.

In other words, is there any citable consensus among recognized NFL trade/draft prognosticators predicting that Jones would command a first-rounder...or is this simply your assumption?

Jones is young and talented. He was the best CB in the league last year. It wouldnt be extreme to ask a first rd pick for him.

People believe tank is worth a first and the guy faded towards the end last year, but I'm willing to bet teams will offer it up.

 

[Sydla]

I'm not saying use one. I'm telling you that drafting, AND NOT FA is what the Cowboys have succeeded on mostly as of late.

You may tell me Cooper but cmon, that rarely even works out in Dallas and coop was still a rarely "do it yourself" kind of player.

The coaching was still bad and you and I both know had it been any other WR it more than likely doesnt play out like that. Just another boneheaded FA move by the cowboys it would have been.

I know the positions are different but FA overall have not been so kind to the cowboys while drafting has.

No one uttered here or anywhere that drafting isn't the primary driver of our current roster. Stop creating strawman arguments here.

The fact FA has not been kind to the Cowboys reflects more on the Cowboys than it does free agency. Maybe the Cowboys should figure the hell out how to use FA better?

 

[SoupcanSam]

No one uttered here or anywhere that drafting isn't the primary driver of our current roster. Stop creating strawman arguments here.

The fact FA has not been kind to the Cowboys reflects more on the Cowboys than it does free agency. Maybe the Cowboys should figure the hell out how to use FA better?

Or maybe it's the players. We draft and signed FA at need.

Why is it that draftees workout but not FA? If it was all FO like you are hinting at then why are the draft picks working out?

In the end draft picks and FA vets end up under the same roof and coached by the same personel!

 

[Sydla]

Or maybe it's the players. We draft and signed FA at need.

Why is it that draftees workout but not FA? If it was all FO like you are hinting at then why are the draft picks working out?

In the end draft picks and FA vets end up under the same roof and coached by the same personel!

Why do draftees work out more than FAs?

Because this franchise doesn't know how to properly evaluate and value free agents. It should stun no one that over the last 5-6 years, when they've bargain bin shopped for free agents that few have worked out. When you bring in cheap, bad players guess what? You get cheap, bad players for the most part.