No love for Covington

DoctorChicken said:
Where did I insinuate that?

I’m saying discounting a DT because they’re a mere 305 lbs (lol) is misguided.
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And I am saying that I haven't dismissed him, but I also don't expect a 305 guy to be a NT and stand up against 320-330 lbs guys unless he is an Aaron Donald. This guy obviously isn't or no team would let him go for peanuts in NFL terms.

I like the signing, but consider it to be just another trying to get by cheap DT instead of spending real resources on a known player whom is both big enough and strong enough to hold the line so to speak.
 
JBond said:
To be fair, Marinelli hasn't had much to work with. The stud players continue to be suspended or quit football. I believe he has done better with less tallent than most here believe.
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To also be fair, Marinelli hasn't asked for more talent. And he certainly hasn't demanded it. He's been perfectly content bringing in "his guys" like Henry Melton and Stephen Paea - to disappointing results. Or drafting guys like Joey Ivie, who never did anything here or anywhere. His philosophy lessens the value of the defensive tackle positions, and he and by extension this team, think they can "get away with" going cheap there. And both parties are continually proven wrong, year after year after year. Be that by getting run over, or by failing to generate anything other than league average sack numbers.
 
Mr_437 said:
Too many guys in contract years at DT. Would like to see DAL draft a 1 and 3tech plus a DE, but can't have everything. The strength of this draft is DL, so go get some guys and have some stability.

Covington seems ok, but DAL needs impact...maybe Christan can provide that but it's not likely.
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Aside from Covington, you're right about this team having far too many one year deals and question marks at defensive tackle. They need some draft picks to build stability for the future.
 
stasheroo said:
To also be fair, Marinelli hasn't asked for more talent. And he certainly hasn't demanded it. He's been perfectly content bringing in "his guys" like Henry Melton and Stephen Paea - to disappointing results. Or drafting guys like Joey Ivie, who never did anything here or anywhere. His philosophy lessens the value of the defensive tackle positions, and he and by extension this team, think they can "get away with" going cheap there. And both parties are continually proven wrong, year after year after year. Be that by getting run over, or by failing to generate anything other than league average sack numbers.
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Facts! Rod likes projects.
 
DRella said:
Actually Woods last season transformed into a viable DT under this DC. In the past players like Hatcher and McLain also excelled to their better seasons before leaving. Gregory if not due to weed issues would be a star in this league. Same thing with Irving.

So to say this DC or Marinelli specifically hasn't had success with projects is false.
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Actually , if my memory serves, I think Hatcher started to develop around 2012, the last season the cowboys employed a 3-4 .mcclain had one good season in his time with the cowboys. Woods played well last season but also had more than one bad game.i might be wrong but I don't think mcclain or Hatcher made the pro bowl. Rod has had just as many flops as successes. Under flops I would include nick hayden, Brian price , Richard ash , jihad ward, ken bishop, Ryan russell and Joey ivie
 
stasheroo said:
Jonathan Cooper was far and away the best free agent signing that year. Paea was a bust, and damaged goods when they signed him.
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I think most of the free agents the cowboys signed that year where cut before mid season.
Horrible job by the cowboys front office
 
agree..he isn't getting much love.THAT SAID, Love is reserved for those who prove their worth consistently IN GAMES. Since we just signed him, lets slow down on the love thing...but I do like the signing and think it will pay dividends.
 
Fredbeard said:
I think most of the free agents the cowboys signed that year where cut before mid season.
Horrible job by the cowboys front office
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Embarrassingly so. And it makes me wonder if after that embarrassment, they're afraid to actually sign someone to any decent money contract.

They wasted almost $10 million on Cedric Thornton the year before and got zero out of him.

And then got nothing for their $4 million on Nolan Carroll the following year. The Eagles must have gotten a good laugh.
 
Fredbeard said:
Actually , if my memory serves, I think Hatcher started to develop around 2012, the last season the cowboys employed a 3-4 .mcclain had one good season in his time with the cowboys. Woods played well last season but also had more than one bad game.i might be wrong but I don't think mcclain or Hatcher made the pro bowl. Rod has had just as many flops as successes. Under flops I would include nick hayden, Brian price , Richard ash , jihad ward, ken bishop, Ryan russell and Joey ivie
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Hatcher's best year here was as Marinelli's attacking 3T. He was the best pass rusher that year.

Before and after he was 2 gapping in a 3-4, first here and then Washington. He wasn't all that great in this role. He even lamented that he wasn't getting a chance to rack up stats in a 3-4 and then went back to a 3-4 team anyways to get more money after he did have a high stat year in a 4-3.

He's a good example of how a decent 2 gapper in a 3-4 can do really well in a 4-3 once it clicks that they only have to be responsible for hitting a single gap as hard as possible almost every play.
 
DasSchnitzel said:
Hatcher's best year here was as Marinelli's attacking 3T. He was the best pass rusher that year.

Before and after he was 2 gapping in a 3-4, first here and then Washington. He wasn't all that great in this role. He even lamented that he wasn't getting a chance to rack up stats in a 3-4 and then went back to a 3-4 team anyways to get more money after he did have a high stat year in a 4-3.

He's a good example of how a decent 2 gapper in a 3-4 can do really well in a 4-3 once it clicks that they only have to be responsible for hitting a single gap as hard as possible almost every play.
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@DasSchnitzel If you aren't careful you may break the form with your facts and logical, thought provoking posts. :)
 
Fredbeard said:
Actually , if my memory serves, I think Hatcher started to develop around 2012, the last season the cowboys employed a 3-4 .mcclain had one good season in his time with the cowboys. Woods played well last season but also had more than one bad game.i might be wrong but I don't think mcclain or Hatcher made the pro bowl. Rod has had just as many flops as successes. Under flops I would include nick hayden, Brian price , Richard ash , jihad ward, ken bishop, Ryan russell and Joey ivie
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Yeah, this really couldn't be more wrong.

He came to the Cowboys in 2013

Jason Hatcher's best season in his 10 year career? 2013 with 11 sacks and pro bowl. Before 2013 he had 18 sacks total in 7 years. Hatcher left the year after and never came close to repeating his performance.

George Selvies best season in his 7 year career? You guessed it 2013 his first year with Rod. He had 7 sacks that season, and 10 of his 14 career sacks in the two years under Rod never having more than 1.5 any other season. We got him for $1.3M

2014-
We sign Mincey to a $1.5M contract and Rod parlayed that into 6 sacks, the 2nd most in Mincey's 9 year career.
We sign Melton and he has 5 sacks in 3 starts lol
We also drafted Lawrence in the 2nd round who he turned into an All-pro, and already got 8 sacks in his 2nd season

2015-
We sign Greg Hardy who has 6 sacks in 12 games
He gets 4 sacks out of scrub Jack Crawford. Crawford had 9.5 sacks in his 38 games with Rod, he had 6 sacks in his other 35 games with all other teams.

2016-
Thornton the first flop for Rod
Sign Mayowa for nothing and of course has a career year with Rod with 6 sacks.
Draft Collins in the 3rd whi gets 5 sacks as a rookie DT

2017-
Pluck David Irving off of a practice squad after going undrafted and he puts up per snaps stats on par with Donald and the other elite DTs along with 7 sacks.

We all already know about Antwuan Woods and Gregory's ascension last year, so won't linger with them.

So your examples of flops were:
Nick Hayden- signed for the vets minimum and had his three best years of his career in his three years with us.
Brian Price- Signed him from a practice squad and ended up being a contributor for us. Lol
Richard Ash- are you kidding?
Jihad Ward- again are you kidding? He didnt even make the team lmao
Bishop- drafted in the 7th round, how high were you aspirations that he flopped?
Ivie- another 7th rounder. You must think that 7th round DLmen should kill it.

Yeah, I'd say that Rod having as many successes as he does flips is a pretty off statement.
 
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gimmesix said:
I think this is the issue with all of the free agents we've brought in. I like the Hyder, Covington, Cobb and Iloka signings, but I can't say for certain that any of them make us a better team. There's reason to hope, but there are also question marks about exactly what they can add to this team. We don't sign bona fide, can't-miss FAs because the front office doesn't want to pay what it takes for those type players. So we have to take and wait-and-see approach, hoping that the team has uncovered players more like Antwaun Woods than Allen Hurns or Nolan Carroll or Deonte Thompson or Damontre Moore or Robert Blanton or Byron Bell ...

In 2017, the only FA who worked out decently for us was Stephen Paea, starting at nose tackle until he got hurt and then retired. Last year, we did a little better. Woods was a great addition as starting 1-tech and Joe Thomas and Cameron Fleming were solid backups. Hurns wasn't worth what we paid, but isn't a bad player.
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Nailed it! To me it's just hard to be excited about a rotational player.
 
gimmesix said:
I think this is the issue with all of the free agents we've brought in. I like the Hyder, Covington, Cobb and Iloka signings, but I can't say for certain that any of them make us a better team. There's reason to hope, but there are also question marks about exactly what they can add to this team. We don't sign bona fide, can't-miss FAs because the front office doesn't want to pay what it takes for those type players. So we have to take and wait-and-see approach, hoping that the team has uncovered players more like Antwaun Woods than Allen Hurns or Nolan Carroll or Deonte Thompson or Damontre Moore or Robert Blanton or Byron Bell ...

In 2017, the only FA who worked out decently for us was Stephen Paea, starting at nose tackle until he got hurt and then retired. Last year, we did a little better. Woods was a great addition as starting 1-tech and Joe Thomas and Cameron Fleming were solid backups. Hurns wasn't worth what we paid, but isn't a bad player.
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Good news is there is no such thing as a bonafide can't miss FA.

And there are a ton more "can't miss" FAs that end up underproducing for their new team, than guys who play up to their contract.
 
O
Dalmations202 said:
And I am saying that I haven't dismissed him, but I also don't expect a 305 guy to be a NT and stand up against 320-330 lbs guys unless he is an Aaron Donald. This guy obviously isn't or no team would let him go for peanuts in NFL terms.

I like the signing, but consider it to be just another trying to get by cheap DT instead of spending real resources on a known player whom is both big enough and strong enough to hold the line so to speak.
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Houston listed Covington at 310.

See the listed weights for the starting DTs for the playoff teams that play a 4-3 defense.

The average for the 4-3 DTs listed is 303.5 pounds.

Cowboys 4-3
308
312

Seahawks 4-3
291
305

Eagles 4-3
295
310

Saints 4-3
305
309

Chargers 4-3
300
311

Patriots 4-3
315
320

Colts 4-3
298
271

Rams 3-4
Bears 3-4
Texans 3-4
Ravens 3-4
Chiefs 3-4
 
Having a Chris Covington and a Christian Covington on this team is just confusing to me. :huh:
 
I am confused. Is there a particular reason Covington should be the recipient of "love"?
 
QuincyCarterEra said:
Good news is there is no such thing as a bonafide can't miss FA.

And there are a ton more "can't miss" FAs that end up underproducing for their new team, than guys who play up to their contract.
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That's what you have to weigh in signing them. Is there a better chance that an Earl Thomas plays at an All-Pro level than a George Iloka does? Absolutely. Is there a better chance that Thomas doesn't live up to his salary than Iloka? Absolutely.

One player playing up to his potential can take your team to another level while the other can't. The question is whether you want to live with the consequences if age and injury have taken away Thomas' ability to be much better or even as good as Iloka.
 
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