Tampa has released Gerald McCoy

[Sydla]

Then why aren't you understanding it if it isnt hard?

McCoy value has NOTHING to do with Crawford or Hurns. I'm not overpaying for McCoy just because I can get rid of other contracts. I'll get rid of those contracts if I like and go and find value elsewhere whether it be another free agent or absorbing a contract via trade at a CAP I find more value in.

I think you have a warped up view of what overpaying for McCoy actually is.

If he signs say a 3 year deal at like $11MM a year (depending on the guaranteed money), that's not an overpay when you look at the landscape of NFL DTs. $11MM would rank him with the likes of Sheldon Richardson, Malik Jackson, Brandon Williams, Linval Joseph............ McCoy is absolutely in that class of DTs.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Then why aren't you understanding it if it isnt hard?

McCoy value has NOTHING to do with Crawford or Hurns. I'm not overpaying for McCoy just because I can get rid of other contracts. I'll get rid of those contracts if I like and go and find value elsewhere whether it be another free agent or absorbing a contract via trade at a CAP I find more value in.

So you sit and pray that a deal comes around the trade deadline? The point is to put the most talent on the team. McCoy immediately gives you a great inside rusher with D law and Quinn coming off the edges. Ty craw can't win 1 on 1 consistently.

 

[Hennessy_King]

I think you have a warped up view of what overpaying for McCoy actually is.

If he signs say a 3 year deal at like $11MM a year (depending on the guaranteed money), that's not an overpay when you look at the landscape of NFL DTs. $11MM would rank him with the likes of Sheldon Richardson, Malik Jackson, Brandon Williams, Linval Joseph............ McCoy is absolutely in that class of DTs.

I can't believe that we have to argue this. It's like a no brainer Mccoy is way better than what we have at DT currently.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

He's pretty close to two times the player Crawford is. He's absolutely worth $11MM if Crawford is essentially worth $6MM. You are simply proving my point about having the homer goggles on.

For example, in QB pressures alone, he has double the number Crawford has in the last three years.

But if he's getting long, multi year contract offers, I can see why we wouldn't be involved. Then again, people predicted Suh would sign a long term deal too and he just got a pretty reasonable $10MM one year deal.

1. He's not close to two times the player Crawford is
2. You're simply not proving any point
3. Where's your source on pressures and what are the numbers?

 

[Sydla]

So you sit and pray that a deal comes around the trade deadline? The point is to put the most talent on the team. McCoy immediately gives you a great inside rusher with D law and Quinn coming off the edges. Ty craw can't win 1 on 1 consistently.

And this is why I am so bullish on McCoy. He's a much better interior pass rusher than Crawford........ bigger, stronger, etc.

Again, last year, this team was middle of the pack as a pass rushing team. Quinn should help but they still lack a real dominant interior defender. McCoy would be that guy. You line up McCoy at the 3T on passing downs with Quinn and Lawrence on the edges? That's an OL's nightmare.

Now some will counter that Hill is going to be that guy. Well, I hope he is, but it's risky expecting a rookie DL to come in and just hit the ground running and dominate like McCoy could. Further, if Hill is all that and a bag of chips, line them both up inside on obvious passing downs and watch havoc get wreaked.

 

[Stash]

What young talent at DT? Antwaun Woods, Daniel Ross? It's a JAG fest inside at DT.

Hill most of all, but Collins and Covington are young guys with upside as well. As good as McCoy may still be, he's on the way down, not up.

 

[Sydla]

1. He's not close to two times the player Crawford is
2. You're simply not proving any point
3. Where's your source on pressures and what are the numbers?

For example, let's start with QB hits.

Pro Football Reference:

McCoy - 59
Crawford - 32

That's nearly double the number of QB hits over the last 3 years.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

I think you have a warped up view of what overpaying for McCoy actually is.

If he signs say a 3 year deal at like $11MM a year (depending on the guaranteed money), that's not an overpay when you look at the landscape of NFL DTs. $11MM would rank him with the likes of Sheldon Richardson, Malik Jackson, Brandon Williams, Linval Joseph............ McCoy is absolutely in that class of DTs.

He's not in the same realm as Jackson or Joseph anymore, and I dont know enough about Williams. Although Jospeh plays a different position, but he's the best at his position. Are we claiming that McCoy is the best at his? And McCoy is older than everyone of those players also.

So it makes it obvious it's an overpay when you compare them to the other younger players who are better getting paid that same amount.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Hill most of all, but Collins and Covington are young guys with upside as well. As good as McCoy may still be, he's on the way down, not up.

I didn't say give him a 5 year extension at 34 years old like Romo. I said give him a 2-3 year deal that you can get out of easily after year 1. maybe 1 year and half guaranteed money

 

[Hennessy_King]

For example, let's start with QB hits.

Pro Football Reference:

McCoy - 59
Crawford - 32

That's nearly double the number of QB hits over the last 3 years.

Preach!!!

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

For example, let's start with QB hits.

Pro Football Reference:

McCoy - 59
Crawford - 32

That's nearly double the number of QB hits over the last 3 years.

Ahh you said QB pressures not hits, I knew that wasn't correct.

It's why Crawford had a better pass rush score than McCoy in 2017.

 

[Sydla]

He's not in the same realm as Jackson or Joseph anymore, and I dont know enough about Williams. Although Jospeh plays a different position, but he's the best at his position. Are we claiming that McCoy is the best at his? And McCoy is older than everyone of those players also.

So it makes it obvious it's an overpay when you compare them to the other younger players who are better getting paid that same amount.

McCoy is absolutely in that class of players.

And again, I am not looking to sign McCoy for 5 years. If I could get him for 2? It's a no brainer. I will be curious to see what he actually signs for.

 

[Hennessy_King]

1. He's not close to two times the player Crawford is
2. You're simply not proving any point
3. Where's your source on pressures and what are the numbers?

Last year PFF graded McCoy 30th best interior lineman while crawford ranked 50th. Almost double

 

[Sydla]

Ahh you said QB pressures not hits, I knew that wasn't correct.

It's why Crawford had a better pass rush score than McCoy in 2017.

QB hits is part of "pressure" rate.

And where was it stated that Crawford had a better pass rush score in 2017? How about 2018?

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

QB hits is part of "pressure" rate.

And where was it stated that Crawford had a better pass rush score in 2017? How about 2018?

Pressure rate was never brought up though.
QB hits and QB pressures are not the same.

Crawford had 37 hurries in 2017 compared to 26 hurries in 2017 for McCoy according to PFF

 

[Stash]

I didn't say give him a 5 year extension at 34 years old like Romo. I said give him a 2-3 year deal that you can get out of easily after year 1. maybe 1 year and half guaranteed money

He's not worth $10 million a year or more to this team. Not with the players they currently have, and not with the proven young talent they have to pay. This opportunity simply didn't line up.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

It's weird now that PFF is pimping McCoy out

In an article released in February this is what they had to say about McCoy

"30 years(he's 31 now) old coming off his lowest-geaded season as a pass rusher of his career, with a $13M cap hit is a bad combination"
That highlights he wasn't worth the $13M cap hot, which was reinforced by being cut and noone trading for him, and now there's posters claiming "he's definitely worth $12M a year" LOL

I wonder who is right and who is wrong

 

[Sydla]

Pressure rate was never brought up though.
QB hits and QB pressures are not the same.

Crawford had 37 hurries in 2017 compared to 26 hurries in 2017 for McCoy according to PFF

Got a link to those stats? Because I found information that seemingly refutes your claims here.

I just pulled a Dallas Newsday story and it said this:

Crawford recorded four sacks in 2017 and 27 tackles. But much of Crawford's impact doesn't show up on a typical box score: Advanced analytics site Pro Football Focus pegs his quarterback hurry count at 26 (seven hits) and his stops at 20.

So in 2017, they are saying his QB hurries were 26, not 37.

And then there is this link to PFF's Top 101 players from 2017. McCoy ranked 42nd, Crawford was nowhere on the list. And in that writeup for the 2017 season it said this:

As is always the case, Gerald McCoy was the most dominant force in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers‘ defensive front. McCoy has freakish quickness for a defensive tackle and can consistently penetrate into the backfield. That lends itself obviously to pass-rushing, and McCoy notched 47 total pressures across the season, but it also makes him a nuisance in the run game, where his PFF grade of 85.0 was still good enough to rank 21st among all interior defenders.

Here's the link to the actual article.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-top-101-players-from-the-2017-nfl-season

 

[Hennessy_King]

He's not worth $10 million a year or more to this team. Not with the players they currently have, and not with the proven young talent they have to pay. This opportunity simply didn't line up.

This makes no sense considering I showed you can make room to sign the proven young talent.

 

[Hennessy_King]

It's weird now that PFF is pimping McCoy out

In an article released in February this is what they had to say about McCoy

"30 years(he's 31 now) old coming off his lowest-geaded season as a pass rusher of his career, with a $13M cap hit is a bad combination"
That highlights he wasn't worth the $13M cap hot, which was reinforced by being cut and noone trading for him, and now there's posters claiming "he's definitely worth $12M a year" LOL

I wonder who is right and who is wrong

considering TB is in a rebuild he's not worth it. Are we in a rebuild? I would pay him 12 without blinking an eye. Our talent at DE will open up opportunities for him and vice versa