Ranking an incredibly talented roster

erod

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Is Zach the best? These last two seasons haven't been all world. Certainly still very good but I need to see him rag doll'ing folks again to say he's the best player on the team.

Can you really put anyone but Zeke and maybe DLaw in the running for best as of today? With another good year Cooper, Byron & the LB'ers could be in the mix.

Tyron is not #3 at this stage of his career.

Nice effort to put the list together & try to come up with an interesting topic. Agree with the premise that there is a lot of talent but can't really get on board with the rankings.

Martin is still Martin though. Yes, he had some struggles, but Zeke also slowed down and didn't have those breakaway runs we saw before. Lawrence just had shoulder surgery and seems to be breaking down a bit.

And Tyron did not give up a single sack, and that's with a QB that holds the ball forever. Even playing hurt, he's incredible.
 

Diehardblues

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Martin is still Martin though. Yes, he had some struggles, but Zeke also slowed down and didn't have those breakaway runs we saw before. Lawrence just had shoulder surgery and seems to be breaking down a bit.

And Tyron did not give up a single sack, and that's with a QB that holds the ball forever. Even playing hurt, he's incredible.
If you could add one position upgrading to Elite what would it be?

And could that position elevate the supporting cast to instant serious SB contenders?
 

Diehardblues

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I’m trying to think of another Cowboy team or any team in NFL history we’d describe as talented without a top 5 defense, top 10 offense or Elite QB?

I’m not disputing we don’t have some talent but I am arguing if we might be a little over the top with our evaluation.
 

erod

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If you could add one position upgrading to Elite what would it be?

And could that position elevate the supporting cast to instant serious SB contenders?

Well, of course that would be QB because that's the most critical position in football. Hardest thing to find.

But aside from that, it's easy to me. Free safety. That's why I've been clamoring for a ball-hawking safety for 20 years. I wanted Earl Thomas so bad.

If we could have young Ed Reed reincarnated on this defense, this defense would be stifling.
 

CouchCoach

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Are there any other teams in NFL that are near as talented with playoff potential and biggest question mark their coaching?
Yes, there are and have been plenty of them.

The mistake we make in our Garrett roasting frenzy is thinking the other teams all have Belichick's. If he doesn't get extended he's going to have a lot of company on that beach, another 6-8 HC's.
 

Diehardblues

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Yes, there are and have been plenty of them.

The mistake we make in our Garrett roasting frenzy is thinking the other teams all have Belichick's. If he doesn't get extended he's going to have a lot of company on that beach, another 6-8 HC's.
Any current ones?
 

erod

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I’m trying to think of another Cowboy team or any team in NFL history we’d describe as talented without a top 5 defense, top 10 offense or Elite QB?

I’m not disputing we don’t have some talent but I am arguing if we might be a little over the top with our evaluation.

Well, "average" looked pretty good last year after the years of garbage we had been forced to tolerate. :laugh:

What I like is all the young talent that will definitely improve. They need to just keep drafting well there. Watch Chido, Armstrong, Hill, and Xavier this year. I think all four will make a big difference in years to come. Not sure about Xavier, but he shows signs.
 

uvaballa

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I’m trying to think of another Cowboy team or any team in NFL history we’d describe as talented without a top 5 defense, top 10 offense or Elite QB?

I’m not disputing we don’t have some talent but I am arguing if we might be a little over the top with our evaluation.
Is this roster more talented than the 2007 roster?
 

Stash

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Well, "average" looked pretty good last year after the years of garbage we had been forced to tolerate. :laugh:

What I like is all the young talent that will definitely improve. They need to just keep drafting well there. Watch Chido, Armstrong, Hill, and Xavier this year. I think all four will make a big difference in years to come. Not sure about Xavier, but he shows signs.

I have much more faith in Xavier than Chido. He's getting a surprising amount of love here.
 

erod

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I have much more faith in Xavier than Chido. He's getting a surprising amount of love here.

The last few games of the season, Chido may have been the best defensive player we had. It clicked. He was playing much more confident and in control.
 

CouchCoach

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Any current ones?
I would put Quinn, Zimmer and Rivera in that group, they have better talent than what they're achieving. I think the NYG and WAS HC's are on the line but the talent is questionable for them. That's just the NFC but I see 5 plus Garrett on the hot seat this season and you never know with other teams because we assume HC's have a longer window to get it done and it has actually shrunk.
 

Stash

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The last few games of the season, Chido may have been the best defensive player we had. It clicked. He was playing much more confident and in control.

I thought that same thing in 2017, and then he was terrible to start the 2018 season. I'll reserve judgement and let him show it consistently.
 

Diehardblues

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Is this roster more talented than the 2007 roster?
That would be the one I’d consider too with what 13 Pro Bowlers .

They at least had a top 10 ranked offense. I’d argue in this era that was the year we totally blew advancing to championship game against a team we were at least on paper better than beating them twice during the regular season and how much different this era might of been had we accomplished such. We never really recovered as our team under Wade continued to dwindle without the good drafts we’d had under Bill. It wasn’t until 2014 that I thought we had another team capable of advancing.
 
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CouchCoach

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I thought that same thing in 2017, and then he was terrible to start the 2018 season. I'll reserve judgement and let him show it consistently.
Do you think adding Richard with a different philosophy might have had that effect? I think it was a good hire but there are some adjustments that players have to make and in today's NFL, the secondary can be a real challenge with changes as they're constantly under fire.
 

CouchCoach

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That would be the one I’d consider too with what 13 Pro Bowlers .

They at least had a top 10 ranked offense. I’d argue in this era that was the year we totally blew advancing to championship game against a team we were at least on paper better than beating them twice during the regular season and how much different this era might of been had we accomplished such. we never really recovered as our team under Wade continued to dwindle without the good drafts we’d had under Bill.
That offense was better but I will take this D, sight unseen in 2019, over that one.

I really do believe that this defense could be the most talented one we've had since the glory days of the 90's. That 90's team had it's stars too but I like the potential of this overall team with this D. And the 90's team could still have depth before FA showed up.
 

Stash

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Do you think adding Richard with a different philosophy might have had that effect? I think it was a good hire but there are some adjustments that players have to make and in today's NFL, the secondary can be a real challenge with changes as they're constantly under fire.

Most definitely, in both good and bad. It's certainly possible that Awuzie struggled a bit learning the new techniques that Richard brought with him, and the improved results late in the season were the result of his growing more comfortable. But, given his career track record thus far, I'll be cautiously optimistic regarding his future results. So at this point, I certainly wouldn't rank as high on my own list as he does on this one. I need to see more and see it consistently.
 

xwalker

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This is one helluva talented roster right now. Even a lot of the backups are damn good players. Many of the best players are 25 or younger. Probably only 3-4 spots on the roster even available. Great job by the personnel department.

So, let's play a game.

I'm going to rank the starters from best to least best (plus a few more guys that will see a lot of time). I'm going to assume everybody is fully healthy (Lee and Cobb), and some guys will be low just because they are young or just got here. No kickers, punters, specialty guys, or Randy Gregory.

And we're off......

1. Zack Martin - 2nd best Cowboys guard all time behind Larry Allen
2. Zeke Elliott - the heart and hammer of the offense
3. Tyron Smith - still as good as it gets even at 90%
4. Travis Frederick - hoping he's fully recovered to his former incredible self soon
5. Demarcus Lawrence - will handle the contract well
6. Amari Cooper - silky smooth routes are a pleasure to behold
7. Leighton Vander Esch - crazy athleticism and shadowed Lee all offseason
8. Chidobe Awuzie - finished strong last year and about to break out as our best corner
9. Jaylon Smith - if his lateral quickness would return, he could rocket to top five
10. Sean Lee - still the smartest dude on the team
11. Byron Jones - I need to see more, not totally buying it, but last year was good
12. Robert Quinn - bigger acquisition than we realize, will love being here
13. Jason Witten -will look the same steady guy as he did 3 years ago
14. Tyrone Crawford -way underappreciated, good football player
15. Anthony Brown - one of the steadiest players on the team
16. Maliek Collins - dominant at times when his foot is healthy
17. Dak Prescott - biggest year of his career, gotta make the WR corp fast and dynamic with Moore
18. Joe Looney - this is a tremendous backup and a good locker room guy
19. Randall Cobb - like Miles Austin, can he keep his legs together?
20. Jourdan Lewis - talented, but freelances too much
21. La'el Collins - fairly solid, but not as advertised out of college
22. Dorance Armstrong -will become more impactful this year with an offseason
23. Michael Gallup -could go way up the chart, but need to see it
24. Antuan Woods - love this guy, but he tailed off at the end
25. Jeff Heath - better than given credit for, but Iloka looms
26. Xavier Woods - could break out if he prepared to fend off Iloka
27. Connor Williams - will rise when he gets to RT eventually
28. Trysten Hill -who knows, but they're counting on him to get his head on right and play
29. Blake Jarwin - intriguing player late, the coaches love him
30. Taco Charlton - Dude.....

And there are still solid and intriguing guys like Frazier, Pollard, Covington, Thomas, Sua-Filo, Schultz and these track star rookie receivers on the team.

Some really good, promising players are about to get cut. That's a good sign.

Terrific, to the point post!

CBs
Interesting thoughts on Awuzie.
I think he just needs to fine tune the details of his game, especially contested balls.

They asked too much of Byron Jones late in the season. More experience at other positions will make Jones better because he won't try to do too much.

You spot on about Brown and Lewis. I think Brown is only slightly below Jones/Awuzie.

Lewis has a chance to get more playing time if he embraces the Kris Richard style. They could use more Dime like they did against the Saints.


Jaylon Smith / LVE
I think he is OK physically. I doubt he'll even be physically what he was in college but very few LBs are at that level of elite physical ability. Jaylon does need to continue to develop mentally. He got caught out of position more than I expect from him this season.

LVE adapted the NFL very quickly with the help of Lee; however, the Rams had all of the LBs confused in that playoff game. They played Lee more to get his experience in there but it was a day late, dollar short.


Jason Witten
This is about the only one of your comments on which I disagree. Hopefully he'll look better than in 2017 but he dropped significantly even just from 2016 to 2017, IMO. He looked very sluggish in 2017 and they quit using him on some blocks like the pull across the backfield and block the backside DE because he couldn't get there quick enough.


Tyrone Crawford / M.Collins / Hill
He is a better player than most fans give him credit for being; however, he has been a long time starter moved back and forth between DE and DT but does not project to start this year. M.Collins and Trysten Hill are the projected top two 3-tech DTs and Robert Quinn is the projected starter at RDE. If other players stay healthy up to game 1, then SJones might want to move on from Crawford's 7M salary. The status of Hyder and DT Covington could play into that decision also.


Antuan Woods / Covington
They didn't really have another legit option to play 1-tech snaps, especially in the Rams game. DT Covington projects as an ideal 4th DT because he appears to have both 1-tech and 3-tech ability; although, with the report that he dropped 30 pounds that might have changed. Covington played as a 3-4 DE in Houston but also played snaps at NT.


Xavier Woods / Iloka / Heath
I expect them to have Iloka focused on SS. If Iloka becomes the clear cut starter at SS, then Heath has the ability and experience to backup both FS and SS.

It's possible that Iloka and Heath both play snaps at SS based on match-ups. Heath has excellent speed and was OK in coverage but struggled vs the run. Iloka on paper looks ideal as a SS because he is very big and has limited speed; however, he played more as a FS or in 2-deep alignments with the Bengals. I've reviewed him from a few Bengals games but I still not certain about his run defense ability. He was OK but the way they used him meant he wasn't the 1st defender to contact the RB all that often. He was much better in coverage than most fans would think if they focus on his forty time.

Taco (Goal should be to emulate DLaw)
Taco has the physical ability. He looked as good or better physically in college as DLaw; however, DLaw has worked hard to transform himself into a big time NFL player. That includes work in the weight room, mental preparation and scheme knowledge and especially refined technique that's somewhat unique to him.

If Taco gets his head right he should be able to do much of what DLaw does physically. Getting benched for a few games last season will either light a fire under his backside OR it will make his attitude issues worse. The coaches should know which within the 1st week of training camp.

There is a bit a a problem for Taco in that he would be best at LDE in Marinelli's scheme but DLaw obviously plays most of the LDE snaps. They need a big DE to rotate with Robert Quinn at RDE like they did last year with Randy Gregory in the role Quinn will now play. Taco was that big DE when Crawford was starting at DT due to Collins being limited early coming back from injury. This year Taco, Hyder, Crawford and possibly Armstong will be in the mix to get the bulk of those snaps as the #2 RDE.

LG / RT
Connor Williams is one of the players that I'm most interested to follow in training camp. I think they want him to start at LG in 2019 and then move to RT in 2020; however, how much he practices at OT in 2019 is a big unknown.

With Connor Williams, La'el Collins, Cam Fleming, Connor McGovern and Joe Looney in the mix, I see the following possibilities.

XX = Connor McGovern or Joe Looney

LG / RT / Swing Tackle
CW / LC / CF
XX / LC / CW
LC / CW / CF
 

xwalker

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I keep telling you guys not to sleep on Tony Pollard.

Could be our own version of Tarik Cohen.

Agree.

I've said multiple times that I think Pollard will play a key role.

He is a versatile offensive weapon as a RB/WR/Gadget player that also blocked often in college.

Pollard has the size 6-1, 210 to do many things that Gadget players like Austin can't (blocker, inside runner, outside WR against big DBs, etc.).
 
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