Why the NFL has more holdouts than any other pro league

[Rayman70]

we can agree, the next CBA could be very interesting how it unfolds..

 

[Little Jr]

It's true, pitchers never lose entire seasons to injury.

Never said they didn't. Said it's less likely in mlb than nfl. Plus with no cap they can go sign another guy for 38m per.

 

[OmerV]

not really the same thing at all.

Can you explain why?

 

[visionary]

What the NFL does isn’t unlike what other sports leagues do where a portion of the contract is guaranteed and then the team may have an option for additional years. Just because the NFL doesn’t call it an option doesn’t mean that’s not what it is.

Baseball actually has some options that are mutual team/player options where either side can opt out at some point, and some contacts have player options. That’s what NFL players are missing out on.

But let’s also remember the NFL doesn’t have a 162 game schedule like baseball to make money from, not can they run players back and forth between minor leagues and take advantage of a number of players at or near league minimum.

See, when you try even you CAN make a halfway decent post

Dont give up, stay at it

 

[OmerV]

See, when you try even you CAN make a halfway decent post

Dont give up, stay at it

Keep reading - maybe some will rub off on you.

 

[CouchCoach]

The issues with guaranteed contracts is that with the amount of injuries and early exits before the contract is fulfilled, there would be so much dead money on the books, they'd have a hard time paying the healthy players and competing.

The NFL doesn't want guaranteed contracts, just portions of them guaranteed, which used to be in the form of the signing bonus. They also like the idea that the average career is low so they don't have to pay too many escalating salaries with older players and want that older player group to be limited. Young men 18-25 don't relate to an old men like Brady and Brees playing the game, they want the young studs like Mahomes and Goff. And the NFL is all about that demographic or the sport will decline.

One thing they can do to make these holdouts seem more palatable to the fans is stop calling them contracts, they are employment agreements. The other sports have contracts because the owner has committed to paying that player the entire contract value as long as he fulfills the term of it. NFL owners cut players constantly with "contracts", not worth the paper it was written on.

Whatever the amount of Prescott's, Elliott's or Cooper's total contract, you can bet the FO is only taking the guaranteed amount and dividing that by their own projected years of keeping that player. That's the only contract.

 

[OmerV]

The issues with guaranteed contracts is that with the amount of injuries and early exits before the contract is fulfilled, there would be so much dead money on the books, they'd have a hard time paying the healthy players and competing.

The NFL doesn't want guaranteed contracts, just portions of them guaranteed, which used to be in the form of the signing bonus. They also like the idea that the average career is low so they don't have to pay too many escalating salaries with older players and want that older player group to be limited. Young men 18-25 don't relate to an old men like Brady and Brees playing the game, they want the young studs like Mahomes and Goff. And the NFL is all about that demographic or the sport will decline.

One thing they can do to make these holdouts seem more palatable to the fans is stop calling them contracts, they are employment agreements. The other sports have contracts because the owner has committed to paying that player the entire contract value as long as he fulfills the term of it. NFL owners cut players constantly with "contracts", not worth the paper it was written on.

Whatever the amount of Prescott's, Elliott's or Cooper's total contract, you can bet the FO is only taking the guaranteed amount and dividing that by their own projected years of keeping that player. That's the only contract.

An employment agreement IS a contract. What people don’t seem to get is that the terms in a contract can be whatever the parties agree upon. People think of it in simplified terms, let’s say 5 years for $60MM, and assume a player is contractually guaranteed a roster spot for 5 years and to get the full $60MM. But 5 years and $60MM is just what can be potentially earned, not what is guaranteed under the contract, therefore there is no contractual violation if a player gets cut and doesn’t get the full $60MM. The player does, however, get the full guaranteed amount set out in the contract.

The problem is people don’t tend to think beyond what the headline says when a new contract is reported. The headline with Wentz was that he got a new 5 year contract at $32MM/year. Fans tend to lock in on that and ignore the details, which are that the 5 years at $32MM is maximum that can be earned, and the guaranteed portion is the minimum, and whether the length and total payout ends up being the maximum or minimum or something in between depends on the circumstances, and all of it is set out in the contract.

 

[CouchCoach]

An employment agreement IS a contract. What people don’t seem to get is that the terms in a contract can be whatever the parties agree upon. People think of it in simplified terms, let’s say 5 years for $60MM, and assume a player is contractually guaranteed a roster spot for 5 years and to get the full $60MM. But 5 years and $60MM is just what can be potentially earned, not what is guaranteed under the contract, therefore there is no contractual violation if a player gets cut and doesn’t get the full $60MM. The player does, however, get the full guaranteed amount set out in the contract.

The problem is people don’t tend to think beyond what the headline says when a new contract is reported. The headline with Wentz was that he got a new 5 year contract at $32MM/year. Fans tend to lock in on that and ignore the details, which are that the 5 years at $32MM is maximum that can be earned, and the guaranteed portion is the minimum, and whether the length and total payout ends up being the maximum or minimum or something in between depends on the circumstances, and all of it is set out in the contract.

They're not considered the same in legal matters. Contracts are considered more binding.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

Good post. I hate it too. I don't blame Zeke one bit. Dallas would play hardball if he didn't do anything. They could franchise him in 2021/2022. He would be 27/28 when he hit the open market. Get your money while you can. What I don't like in other sports is guys like Russell Westbrook demanding a trade with all these years left on their current deal. Don't want to live/play in Oklahoma City? Fine. But don't sign a long term deal.

Russell did not demand a trade, he only did it after the GM told him they were going young and cleaning house like the marlins after there world series wins. He gave them some teams he would like to play for. That was PG who requested to be traded to the clippers. Russell was going to stay until told by the GM.

 

[OmerV]

They're not considered the same in legal matters. Contracts are considered more binding.

An offer and an acceptance is a contract, and therefore legally binding. An NFL team cannot legally choose to ignore a contract and not pay the player in accordance with its terms. Nor do they.

Again, the misconception some seem to have is that an employment agreement/contract binds an employer to continue employing a person come what may, and it does not. Nor does it bind an employee to continue to work for that employer come what may. The contract merely sets out the terms as long as both sides are willing to continue the employment arrangement over the life of the contract, and the terms if either side chooses to discontinue the arrangement. The employer can cut a player but is still required to pay the guaranteed amount, and the player can leave and forfeit whatever amounts haven’t previously been earned under the terms of contract.

 

[Bobhaze]

Guarantee the contracts and limit the years and bonus money...make it crystal clear for each team. THEN the hold outs will be far less. Give the player the option to walk after a certain time frame..a bit like the NBA...then you will see less problems. Owners may not fully like that idea..but as I said earlier, give and take.

If the owners cared more about the fans, they would handle things more like you described. I honestly believe the NFL owners no longer care much about fans because the majority of their $ comes from TV and ad revenue.

 

[Rayman70]

If the owners cared more about the fans, they would handle things more like you described. I honestly believe the NFL owners no longer care much about fans because the majority of their $ comes from TV and ad revenue.

GOOD POINT AND VALID.

 

[JPostSam]

Do you have a source for that claim?

Financial data released by Major League Baseball to The Associated Press showed the big leaguers' share of net revenue was between 48.5 percent and 51.7 percent each year since 2006.

In other sports, the players' percentage is defined as part of salary caps. NFL players are guaranteed 47 percent of defined revenue, while NBA players receive 49 to 51 percent of basketball related income and NHL players get 50 percent of hockey related revenues.

the number i saw -- 55% -- was national media revenue, which is not all revenue. players' share of local media and jerseys, etc. is lower, bringing the total down to about 48%.

player compensation is supposedly on the decline in baseball (as a percentage of revenue).

in any case, NFL players are getting their due.

the biggest issues are that 1) despite garnering larger total revenues, the NFL has to divvy up the money to more players than the other leagues; 2) more players at more positions means that some positions are valued more and some players in those positions are valued even more; 3) you can get cut at any time and lose the non-guaranteed portion of your contract. all this encourages diva behavior. but it's destructive to careers, and to teams, and to fandom, and therefore, to the league.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Holdouts by players seeking a better contracts have driven fans crazy for years. The first one I remember as a fan was my first favorite Cowboy- Bob Hayes’ holdout in 1970 when the future HOFer was asking to be paid an annual salary of $40k to become one of the highest paid WRs in the league! Lol!

Here’s something to remember about the NFL: It’s the only one of the four major sports leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL) to not have guaranteed player contracts. The owners’ powerful “NFL Management Council” which negotiates the CBA with the NFL Players Association, has long negotiated labor agreements that do not allow players guaranteed contracts. NFL players have the least amount of financial security.

This is why so many more “holdouts” happen in the NFL as opposed to other sports leagues. Here are some other reasons for so many NFL player holdouts:

• NFL contracts do have some “guaranteed money” but it’s usually tied up in the bonus. After that “guarantee”, teams can cut a player at any time as opposed the other leagues where players have fully guaranteed contracts.

• NFL players’ careers are shorter on average, and have a much higher risk for injury. To have a higher risk for injury coupled with no guaranteed contracts make NFL players far less financially secure.

• NFL owners make exponentially more money than other leagues’ owners. The NFL’s net profits that go straight to the owners has approached $20 billion in recent years while NFL players share much less of the financial pie than other leagues’ players, yet have the most risk to their health.

• NFL players have had the least attractive health insurance and retirement packages than the other leagues.

• Zeke is of course under contract, but he’s also nearing a crossroads for his financial future. Going into this season, he probably has more leverage than he’s ever had. (The Cowboys don’t exactly have a solid backup behind Zeke currently)

Look, I’m not a big fan of player holdouts, especially when they have the time left on their contracts like Zeke does. But until the owners start being less cut throat about how contracts are done, we are going to continue seeing these type of situations with players like Zeke.

Holdouts suck. But IMO, the owners have the greatest responsibility in causing them and have the greatest opportunity in the next CBA to rectify this problem.

The truth is these are sub-contractor. They sign a contract to play for a team. They have some latitude in switching teams if things fall correctly. But the owners have the hammer and set this up so it will not be major league baseball where a guy gets a 200 million dollar guaranteed contract.

The fact is, what is happening with Zeke is business. Jerry said it. Jason said it. Stephen as acknowledged it before. And Dak said it. This is the loophole for those special players that have exceeded their conjtract expectations.

People harp on team loyalty. Yet the rookie contracts are slotted, which caps the amount a rookie can make. Then if they are premiumk players and are first rounders, there is an option for the owner to exercize for the fifth year. For a running back that might have a six year window, that limits his big payday.

The owners have an option to fine the player like crazy. Yet for those rare players who possess the rare skills and are so important to the team, that fine is titular only.

This is the business we've chosen was said once by that dirty scountels Hyman Roth.

This is not disloyalty by Zeke. This is nothing more than business. THis is the precise year he should make this move.

If you are offended and believe he is not showing dedication or devotion to this team, you are so because your allegiance is to laundry.

I am a die hard Cowboy fan, but the money aspect is meaningless to me because I don't sweat the shate I cannot control.

I agree with you, Bob.

 

[OmerV]

Guarantee the contracts and limit the years and bonus money...make it crystal clear for each team. THEN the hold outs will be far less. Give the player the option to walk after a certain time frame..a bit like the NBA...then you will see less problems. Owners may not fully like that idea..but as I said earlier, give and take.

To do that would require removing the salary cap because they will end up paying players who have injuries that shorten their careers or make them less effective, or who simply become ineffective due to age or whatever mysterious reasons players lose effectiveness, and they will need to be able to pull in extra money to pay for new ones while they are paying the old ineffective ones.

 

[OmerV]

You're free to go negotiate a better deal (if you can) with one of your employer's competitors in the same field. NFL players aren't.

And he likely didnt sign a contract that pays him a multi-million dollar upfront bonus before he starts his first day of work under that contract or that guarantees him getting paid additional multi-millions even if his employer decides he isn’t as effective as they need in his job and chooses to replace him with a better or more qualified person.

So, not exactly apples to apples...

 

[dckid]

The average NFL career is something like under 4 seasons, so I don't blame a player for trying to get all they can. They're the ones with the talent. We're just fans.

So true. NFL historically has had the worst union of the three major sports. I’m not saying one sport has benefited one way or another. Just a simple fact. NFL players get 48% of revenue.

 

[pancakeman]

When I was young I used to ask "Why in the world should players get that much money?"

Now I ask "Why in the world should the owners keep it instead?"

 

[dckid]

owners OWN..players..ie employees work/play for said owner...and are compensated very well. For me, the wage scale should be fixed...not just for rookies. Healthcare would be another thing the players need badly. What they have now is not good enough. I side with the players on healthcare. Time to fix it.

Always side with players. They are the absolute reason we watch. Love the uniform of course as we love our teams. Players are the commodity.

 

[dckid]

Well sure, but that’s true in any industry/business. Do you think Ford employees have more power or money than the Board of Directors or large shareholders?

Not the same thing. Players are what fans come to see. A car is not the same thing as a football player. Apples to asteroids comparison.