Why the NFL has more holdouts than any other pro league

[Melonfeud]

actually, NFL players get a higher percentage of revenue than players in the other leagues.

guaranteed salaries are an albatross around the necks of teams in those leagues, just as guaranteed money in the NFL is.

(and, ironically, high guaranteed money amounts make it more likely that a player will be deemed "not worth it" by their team. in other words, it is probably in the long-term interest of a player to accept a bit less in the contract, but to see every dollar of that contract, than to get a higher contract and be cut for it being excessive.)

one way to balance the scales would be to require that a team cutting a player before his contract is over, have to pay that player a portion of the unfulfilled contract. the portion could be determined by how many years of the contract had already been fulfilled, or some other agreed-upon metric.

You,Friend! Posted up a most admirable & insightfully enlightened viewpoint,,,*+1 point meritoriously awarded*

 

[Melonfeud]

Excellent post Hazey. The players have to find a way to unify a hardline stance on the pending CBA. A prolonged strike is probably the only response that will yield the results the players deserve.

*the flip side of this impending players strike, AC, will simply allow (the by&at large) Sunday afternoon Joe's&Jane's of the general fan base ,to continue to "root" for their favorite teams laundry that's being fielded by whatever nonunion scab strike breakers the corresponding franchises can lay ahold of,&,employ,,,

 

[OmerV]

I

When I was young I used to ask "Why in the world should players get that much money?"

Now I ask "Why in the world should the owners keep it instead?"

if both sides are making a lot of money, who is harmed? As for the owners keeping more than the players, part is because there are only 32 owners to split their share, and about 2,000 players splitting their share, and part if it is simply because they own the business. The guy that owns a McDonalds franchise or a local sporting goods store or any other business gets more than the employees too. That’s how it works, and that’s the incentive to start and own businesses.

 

[Melonfeud]

Pure greed without a concern for ensuring the on the field game is improving is what the owners are about. Jerry has been the ring leader for maximizing owners profits at the expense of the well being of the game and its players. Greed and maximuzing owners profits is the only reason Jerry has a gold jacket.

He's lovingly referenced as to being the :FOOTBALL DaD

* for those exact very same cast accusations
That Jerry Jones don't play no second fiddle to anybody ,in the arena of his refined field of masterful expertise

 

[rags747]

The NBA says Governors have more power, Owners is so yesteryear.

 

[Melonfeud]

Goodell is the enforcer. He doesn't make policy. He's nothing more than an ax man.

Addendum #1-A: to Witt;
*an disingenuous& utmost of partisan axe men currently employed, in the bargain bin range of shelf offered inferior quality*


**Goodell prolly laid a big ol' bug in the #21's ear ,about a month back in their meeting, saying his NFL career life could easily remain "under his radar" were he to request being traded ,,,er,,,elsewhere,,,This speculation is as viable in it's speculative validity as any

 

[bandfan]

I agree. ALL sides can make a good case. THAT said, they can absolutely hash out a better CBA. There will be inevitably someone that's not happy. But as you know, that's life. Can't please everyone...there is no Utopia type deal. IN my opinion...they can close the gap if they introduced a better healthcare plan for the players for during their career and afterwards. It makes sense. Plus we got to have a wage scale for vets. The NBA and MLB doesn't really have that, so what you have is players dictating to the owners wage scale...its the tail wagging the dog. Just cant sustain a business model like that for very long.

If I was negotiating the new CBA I would also call for a MAJOR investment in equipment research. I find it hard to believe they can't significantly improve helmet designs and knee braces if they would get serious about it....

 

[Proof]

Can you explain why?

All the leagues have option years, yes. The nfl though is the only league that can release a player in the midst of their standard contract without having to pay them further.

 

[OmerV]

All the leagues have option years, yes. The nfl though is the only league that can release a player in the midst of their standard contract without having to pay them further.

The contract allows them to do that, which essentially makes the end year or two at the team’s option.

This notion that the teams are violating the terms of the contract is ridiculous. Have you not noticed they announce the length and dollar amount and then the guaranteed amount? Think about what that means. It means the full year and dollar total is the maximum, and the guaranteed is the minimum, which means the maximum is not assured because the team has the option at some point to either release the player, who still gets the guaranteed amount, or to keep the player at the agreed rate.

 

[pancakeman]

I

if both sides are making a lot of money, who is harmed? As for the owners keeping more than the players, part is because there are only 32 owners to split their share, and about 2,000 players splitting their share, and part if it is simply because they own the business. The guy that owns a McDonalds franchise or a local sporting goods store or any other business gets more than the employees too. That’s how it works, and that’s the incentive to start and own businesses.

As I understand it, the players are splitting ~48% of revenues and the rest stays with the owners. So owners aren't only doing well because they're only sharing it with 31 others--there could be 2000 owners and they'd still get more each. (Of course this is revenue not take-home pay so it's apples to oranges.)

My point was simply that in the public eye, people are often critical of professional athletes making unbelievable amounts of money, but less public light is cast on owners who do even better and often add less value.

(And maybe more of the public seeing it from that point of view could assist the NFLPA in their negotiating position.)

 

[OmerV]

As I understand it, the players are splitting ~48% of revenues and the rest stays with the owners. So owners aren't only doing well because they're only sharing it with 31 others--there could be 2000 owners and they'd still get more each. (Of course this is revenue not take-home pay so it's apples to oranges.)

My point was simply that in the public eye, people are often critical of professional athletes making unbelievable amounts of money, but less public light is cast on owners who do even better and often add less value.

(And maybe more of the public seeing it from that point of view could assist the NFLPA in their negotiating position.)

Is it really surprising or upsetting to anyone in the United States that business owners take home more money than the employees that work for them? I would think people would be shocked if that weren’t the case. Isn’t that the point of starting and owning a business rather than working for someone?

 

[Proof]

The contract allows them to do that, which essentially makes the end year or two at the team’s option.

This notion that the teams are violating the terms of the contract is ridiculous. Have you not noticed they announce the length and dollar amount and then the guaranteed amount? Think about what that means. It means the full year and dollar total is the maximum, and the guaranteed is the minimum, which means the maximum is not assured because the team has the option at some point to either release the player, who still gets the guaranteed amount, or to keep the player at the agreed rate.

im not sure why you’re explaining this. It’s not lost on anyone and is essentially the point. Other sports contracts are guaranteed and the nfls are not (aside from a portion). It’s just a crummy situation for the players.

 

[Proof]

Is it really surprising or upsetting to anyone in the United States that business owners take home more money than the employees that work for them? I would think people would be shocked if that weren’t the case. Isn’t that the entire point of starting and owning a business rather thampn working for someone?

it’s less the owners making more, and more making an astronomical amount more than the players who are the sole product. It’s not like a normal industry with workers doing various jobs, the players are the entirety of the industry top to bottom and make a fraction of a fraction of what the owners make and at great costs to themselves. And the real kick in the nuts is how hard owners fight to suppress the earning potential. There’s room for all parties to be happy. Instead you have billionaire investors quibbling over amounts that are a drop in the bucket of their portfolios but are generational wealth for players

 

[OmerV]

im not sure why you’re explaining this. It’s not lost on anyone and is essentially the point. Other sports contracts are guaranteed and the nfls are not (aside from a portion). It’s just a crummy situation for the players.

It apparently was lost on you .... seems it still is.

Let me ask you this, if a baseball player has a 3 year contract, and the team has an option on a 4th year, is that a fully guaranteed 4 year contract? The answer is that it isn’t any more a fully guaranteed 4 year contract than a 4 year NFL contract that the team can cut short after 3 years. The result is exactly the same - the team has the player committed to 4 years, but can cut it off at 3 years if they choose.

 

[Bobhaze]

Is it really surprising or upsetting to anyone in the United States that business owners take home more money than the employees that work for them? I would think people would be shocked if that weren’t the case. Isn’t that the point of starting and owning a business rather than working for someone?

Yes, businesses who take the risk as owners have earned the right to take home a bigger bite of the apple. Almost all business owners in this country deserve that. But we’re talking apples and oranges here between “regular” businesses and an NFL franchise. Two points on that regarding NFL owners:

• Owning an NFL franchise is far from being a “risk”. It’s an almost guaranteed gold mine. Sure an owner had to have a ton of cash to buy a team, but once they own it in today’s NFL structure, the risk of an NFL owner is minuscule compared to a real American business where there are real daily risks.

• NFL owners share profits. I don’t know many regular businesses that do that. NFL owners are also exempt from paying certain franchise taxes that other American businesses pay.

• Players have giant risks. Every time they step on the field, their main source of value and income (their body) is at risk of losing all its value.

• The biggest problem I have with the owners is one word and it’s the biggest danger to the future health of the game itself: GREED. No profit margin or amount of money is ever enough. Greed is one of the most destructive aspects of our economy and the unquenchable thirst for more money is the potential poison pill for this game and it’s accessibility to regular fans.

 

[OmerV]

it’s less the owners making more, and more making an astronomical amount more than the players who are the sole product. It’s not like a normal industry with workers doing various jobs, the players are the entirety of the industry top to bottom and make a fraction of a fraction of what the owners make and at great costs to themselves. And the real kick in the nuts is how hard owners fight to suppress the earning potential. There’s room for all parties to be happy. Instead you have billionaire investors quibbling over amounts that are a drop in the bucket of their portfolios but are generational wealth for players

Doctors make way more money than their nurses or receptionist. The McDonalds franchise owner makes a lot more than the $9.00/hour he pays the cook. That’s how capitalism works, and that’s the perk of being an owner. Are there really Americans that don’t know this? And it’s not as if even the bottom players don’t make a living wage.

And no, the players are not the entire industry. Far from it. The players didn’t commit hundreds of millions to buying a team, nor did they commit hundreds of millions to lavish stadiums and other facilities, nor do they provide the business, and marketing, and legal expertise necessary for it to work, nor do they keep the books, or negotiate the concessions deals or cut the payroll checks, or clean the facilities or serve the meals or wash the towels, or coach the teams or scout the prospects or deliver the beer kegs or sell the merchandise or do any of the untold number of jobs that make it all work. The players are the product, but they are a long way from the entire business.

 

[Proof]

It apparently was lost on you .... seems it still is.

Let me ask you this, if a baseball player has a 3 year contract, and the team has an option on a 4th year, is that a fully guaranteed 4 year contract? The answer is that it isn’t any more a fully guaranteed 4 year contract than a 4 year NFL contract that the team can cut short after 3 years. The result is exactly the same - the team has the player committed to 4 years, but can cut it off at 3 years if they choose.

no need to be condescending. To answer your question though, no it’s isn’t a four year guaranteed contract and no one would describe it as such. It’s a 3 year contract. FULLY guaranteed. You can’t even make a time delineated length on football contracts because guaranteed money is arbitrary. It may on the books to be paid out over x amount of years but the reality is it’s trivial. If you have ten million dollars of guaranteed money or twenty or thirty it doesn’t mean anything as far as the length of the contract is concerned just that that’s the amount of money you will get for sure. Also in baseball if you’re option year isn’t picked up the team has to pay you additional money for the right to do so.

in short literal option years in football are similar, pretend years potentially available AS PART OF A REPORTED SALARY are not the same as fully guaranteed baseball contracts.

if you insist on semantics though, we can shift to the fact that nfl contracts are dwarfed by baseball contracts despite being a much much more profitable league. Anyway you slice it football players are comparatively hosed

 

[Proof]

Doctors make way more money than their nurses or receptionist. The McDonalds franchise owner makes a lot more than the $9.00/hour he pays the cook. That’s how capitalism works, and that’s the perk of being an owner. Are there really Americans that don’t know this? And it’s not as if even the bottom players don’t make a living wage.

And no, the players are not the entire industry. Far from it. The players didn’t commit hundreds of millions to buying a team, nor did they commit hundreds of millions to lavish stadiums and other facilities, nor do they provide the business, and marketing, and legal expertise necessary for it to work, nor do they keep the books, or negotiate the concessions deals or cut the payroll checks, or clean the facilities or serve the meals or wash the towels, or coach the teams or scout the prospects or deliver the beer kegs or sell the merchandise or do any of the untold number of jobs that make it all work. The players are the product, but they are a long way from the entire business.

You are bad at arguing. Enjoy your evening

 

[OmerV]

You are bad at arguing. Enjoy your evening

That comment is the equivalent of a small child saying “Nuh U!”

 

[OmerV]

no need to be condescending. To answer your question though, no it’s isn’t a four year guaranteed contract and no one would describe it as such. It’s a 3 year contract. FULLY guaranteed. You can’t even make a time delineated length on football contracts because guaranteed money is arbitrary. It may on the books to be paid out over x amount of years but the reality is it’s trivial. If you have ten million dollars of guaranteed money or twenty or thirty it doesn’t mean anything as far as the length of the contract is concerned just that that’s the amount of money you will get for sure. Also in baseball if you’re option year isn’t picked up the team has to pay you additional money for the right to do so.

in short literal option years in football are similar, pretend years potentially available AS PART OF A REPORTED SALARY are not the same as fully guaranteed baseball contracts.

if you insist on semantics though, we can shift to the fact that nfl contracts are dwarfed by baseball contracts despite being a much much more profitable league. Anyway you slice it football players are comparatively hosed

Yes, and The football player also had 3 years fully guaranteed, and in both cases the 4th year was at the option of the team.

You’re all caught up in what you call it and not what the result is. Your like that Twix commercial where they say two people aren’t alike because they have as much in common as a jainitor and custodian or as an undertaker and mortician. Same thing but different names for it.

Hurnd had a 2 year deal but the Cowboys could get out of the second year as long as they released him by a certain date. On the baseball side, 1 year contracts with a team option for a second year are common. In both cases, the player is committed for 2 years, but the team doesn’t have to commit to the second year. Same result under different names.