Why draft a back 4th overall if you’re not willing to pay him?

[ABQCOWBOY]

I didn’t say all or nothing this year. I meant are we All in on this core of talent or not. We have a window of limited time before the Cap starts breaking it up. That time shouldn’t begin now.

Why is paying Zeke money relative to his talent level going to ruin our Cap space more than over paying Dak?

I’ve yet to see anyone spell out specifically the Salary Cap implications.

Is all in based on sacrificing any chance to win in the future? That's the real question to me because if that's the case, and I think it would have to be if you start setting the precedence of allowing players to break contracts and demand higher salaries early.

Why does the Cap have to break up this team? I mean, if you manage it, that should not have to happen. It's when you allow things like signing for record deals two years early that create that type of situation. As for Dak, there is really no need to sign him this year. I don't follow you on this.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

There have been holdouts forever. The NFL has thrived and continues to thrive despite that. There's not the slightest bit of evidence that players holding out will "kill the NFL." What makes you think otherwise in the face of all evidence?
I have no idea what you're talking about. We can see exactly how the NFL works. It includes contract holdouts. It includes contract renegotiations. You keep saying things like, "that's the only way the league works," and "that's how it is, like it or not," when it's simply not true. The "terms of the league" include provisions for what happens when you hold out.

Yes, there have been holdouts forever in the NFL and teams make decisions on those holdouts accordingly. Doesn't mean you have to give in. What is your point? Players do hold out but NFL owners do not give in. They hold the line, for the most part, in situations like this. How many players have held out on their rookie contracts two years early and came out on the better end of that hold out? If you can't figure out that you can't manage a team, and by definition, a league if you allow players on their rookie contracts to force renegotiation at record setting numbers, then we can't have this discussion because you are clearly ignoring the facts that are staring you in the face.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But we can’t blame our lack of not winning championships on Elliott’s current contract or his production and contribution.

Or are you suggesting the leagues leading rusher has been holding us back?

I guess you don't believe he’s been contributing to the success we’ve had?

Why not? If you are demanding the top salary in the League, at your position, then why can't you base it on results? I mean, are you for real? Since when are Salaries, in any vocation, not based on results?

 

[kskboys]

I didn’t say all or nothing this year. I meant are we All in on this core of talent or not. We have a window of limited time before the Cap starts breaking it up. That time shouldn’t begin now.

Why is paying Zeke money relative to his talent level going to ruin our Cap space more than over paying Dak?

I’ve yet to see anyone spell out specifically the Salary Cap implications.

Greg, c'mon now. Everyone knows the positional value of a QB is much much higher in general, and that if you don't have at least a decent QB you're going nowhere. You must take chances that your QB is enough.

RB's? Not so much.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You saw what using a group of backs did. Nobody feared that group unlike the way they feared Zeke. We saw what the team looked like without him.

What did it look like? I mean, in 2015, I saw a hundred year old Darren McFadden rush for 1089 yards on 239 yards for 4.8 YPC. behind this line. I mean, lets not act like the running game was none existent before Zeke came along. I mean, that McFadden who was able to do that and he wasn't even close to what he was when he first came into the league. No, I don't buy that whole idea of, "There was nothing before Zeke".

 

[dallasdave]

All this handwringing over paying a 24 year old running back is ludicrous considering they spent a top 5 pick on him just a few seasons ago. All he’s done in 3 seasons is justify his draft position, and now we’re not willing to pay a back because of our philosophy? How does that make any sense?

They look like morons for taking him 4th overall if they’re not willing to pay him.

Great point Indeed

 

[OmerV]

Great point Indeed

No, it's really not. Being willing to pay doesn't mean a team pays whatever price a player quotes, nor does it mean a team has to pay big bucks with 2 years left on a player's contract. To do that routinely would be committing salary cap suicide. In any case, we are only 5 days into training camp, so it's not as if there is a certainty a deal won't get done. Odds are very high that it will.

 

[dallasdave]

No, it's really not. Being willing to pay doesn't mean a team pays whatever price a player quotes, nor does it mean a team has to pay big bucks with 2 years left on a player's contract. To do that routinely would be committing salary cap suicide. In any case, we are only 5 days into training camp, so it's not as if there is a certainty a deal won't get done. Odds are very high that it will.

 

[Diehardblues]

Greg, c'mon now. Everyone knows the positional value of a QB is much much higher in general, and that if you don't have at least a decent QB you're going nowhere. You must take chances that your QB is enough.

RB's? Not so much.

And that’s basically my argument. I’m not sure our QB is enough and not willing to take that chance with less than Elite RB. It doesn’t have to be Elliott.

I get your argument . And on most teams with more prolific passers and closer to Elite QB would agree.

But we’re so dependent on our dominating running game offensively and defensively. I believe that our RB is a more valuable asset than most teams.

 

[kskboys]

Great point Indeed

It's not at all. He's under contract for 2 more years. It's an invalid point w/ gaping flaws.

 

[kskboys]

And that’s basically my argument. I’m not sure our QB is enough and not willing to take that chance with less than Elite RB. It doesn’t have to be Elliott.

I get your argument . And on most teams with more prolific passers and closer to Elite QB would agree.

There's only 3-5 elite QB's in the league. The rest of the teams just have to take what they can get and build a super bowl team around them. Like the Giants w/ Eli, Ravens w/ Flacco.

Prolific passers don't win super bowls either.

 

[Diehardblues]

Why not? If you are demanding the top salary in the League, at your position, then why can't you base it on results? I mean, are you for real? Since when are Salaries, in any vocation, not based on results?

I’d argue Elliott’s production and results warrant his contract demands to be one of the top paid RB’s.

It’s doubtful this offense is as productive as it’s been without Elliott. And the results wouldn’t have been favorable.

 

[Batman1980]

It's not at all. He's under contract for 2 more years. It's an invalid point w/ gaping flaws.

Just continues to prove my stance that Zeke was never worth a top 5 pick. With all the red flags I probably would've gone low second at best, for him.

 

[Diehardblues]

There's only 3-5 elite QB's in the league. The rest of the teams just have to take what they can get and build a super bowl team around them. Like the Giants w/ Eli, Ravens w/ Flacco.

Prolific passers don't win super bowls either.

Yea, but a lot of them get there.

There’s many more QB’s who are closer to Elite. I’m so excited we have to build a team like those. You really believe this franchise can do that? Lol

 

[Batman1980]

 

[Diehardblues]

Just continues to prove my stance that Zeke was never worth a top 5 pick. With all the red flags I probably would've gone low second at best, for him.

That’s a reasonable argument but that’s not our reality. This is the bed Jerry has made for us. Are we prepared to abort? We shall see if Jerry is.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He was much more of a sure thing though, and when dedicating a large part of the offense to the running game it's tough to gamble on less sure options.

Look at the other RBs drafted that year. In order starting with the next RB taken after Zeke were Derrick Henry, Kenyon Drake, C.J. Prosise (who?), Tyler Ervin (who?), Kenneth Dixon, DeVontae Booker, DeAndre Washington, Paul Perkins, Jordan Howard ….

AHA, Jordan Howard! 10 players and 5 1/2 rounds into the draft and we finally found another RB besides Zeke who proved to be a solid NFL starter. That pretty much tells us the Cowboys were right to take Zeke if they needed to be sure to get a lynchpin for the running game that year.

But look who was drafted the year before: David Johnson (3rd Rd), Melvin Gordon (15th overall), Todd Gurley (10th Overall), Jay AjayI (5th Rd), Duke Johnson (3rd Rd), Tevin Coleman (3rd Rd), Yeldon (2nd Rd).

Look at 2017: Fournette (who was also taken too high, 4th overall), Kareem Hunt (3rd Rd), Alvin Kamara (3rd rd), Christian McCaffery (8th overall), Joe Mixon (2nd rd), Delvin Cook (2nd Rd), James Conner (3rd rd), Chris Carson (7th Rd).

I mean, the proof is overwhelming that you don't need to take a RB at the top of the Draft to get a quality player. The Cowboys could have easily signed an FA and taken a RB later in either of these drafts, to address RB, without spending a 4th overall on Elliott. I don't buy into the value, especially if he continues to be a problem. Nobody is disputing the fact that he is a talented player. The dispute is in the actual value of spending that high a pick on the position.

 

[OmerV]

So, you are saying your opinion is that whatever Zeke quotes as his asking price the team should pay, and it doesn't matter if he is quoting an unreasonable price or not, and it doesn't matter that Zeke has 2 years on left on his contract.

We will have to agree to disagree on that, but what is fact rather than opinion is that a team could not manage the salary cap if it operated like that.

It's also fact rather than opinion that you can't say with certainty the team is unwilling to pay Zeke or won't pay Zeke. 5 days into training camp does not prove an agreement won't be reached. It's rare that holdouts like this actually bleed over into the season.

 

[Diehardblues]

Yea but those fines are usually academic and voided out when an agreement has been reached.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I’d argue Elliott’s production and results warrant his contract demands to be one of the top paid RB’s.

It’s doubtful this offense is as productive as it’s been without Elliott. And the results wouldn’t have been favorable.

You can argue that all day long, half the night. Doesn't mean it holds merit. He's under contract, he signed to play Football at a negotiated rate. A rate that his own players union negotiated as fair. That's it, that's the deal.

As to the productivity of the Offense without Elliott, well, I see no proof of that. Our Offense 22nd in the NFL last season. 14th the year before that. The year before that, we were 5th. It seems to me that our Offense has continually declined since the arrival of Zeke. Now, I don't believe this is indicative of Zeke but I do believe it reflects on the importance of what Zeke brings to the Offense.