Why draft a back 4th overall if you’re not willing to pay him?

[Diehardblues]

Overpaying it doesn't help, either.

Is it really over paying if that’s the market value for a top RB?

Some of the same fans don’t appear to have an issue with Prescott. And his contract proposals I’ve seen are well above what his talent level market value should be.

Our dysfunctional organization needs talent to contend. Without it we have no shot. We don’t have the leadership to overcome.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I respect your opinion. But my argument revolves more around our franchise decision. And the motivating factors. It’s a given they’re idiots on the most part . And why we have been a talent driven franchise. Taking away talent doesn’t help us given the other idiocies.

The thing that most people miss, refuse to see, flat wont acknowledge, is that this is not really about Zeke. We should have traded down or taken Ramsey. It's not personal towards Zeke. He is not my favorite guy, he will never be because I don't respect him as a person but, just talking talent, he's one of the top RBs in the NFL. I don't begrudge him his money, I just don't think he should be paid what he wants and I don't think it's wise to capitulate on this issue. This generation sees it as opportunity and weakness. If you do it with Zeke, you only hurt the rest of the league and create problems for everybody. This is to say nothing of what you do to the team. We will see a continuous stream of this type of behavior from every rookie we bring in. It's a mistake to do this, is all I'm saying.

 

[Diehardblues]

We can’t look or evaluate our franchise like you would others. We play by a different set of rules with our dysfunctional organization.

We can’t rely on sound personnel decisions or great coaching to overcome. We are a talent dependent franchise. The more Elite talent we have the great opportunity we have . And it still might not be enough to overcome.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Is it really over paying if that’s the market value for a top RB?

Some of the same fans don’t appear to have an issue with Prescott. And his contract proposals I’ve seen are well above what his talent level market value should be.

Our dysfunctional organization needs talent to contend. Without it we have no shot. We don’t have the leadership to overcome.

He's not the top RB and to this point, it's really not the discussion that he should be having with the team or that the team should be entertaining. Why should the team consider these demands, after the way he has behaved, while in the NFL?

 

[Diehardblues]

The thing that most people miss, refuse to see, flat wont acknowledge, is that this is not really about Zeke. We should have traded down or taken Ramsey. It's not personal towards Zeke. He is not my favorite guy, he will never be because I don't respect him as a person but, just talking talent, he's one of the top RBs in the NFL. I don't begrudge him his money, I just don't think he should be paid what he wants and I don't think it's wise to capitulate on this issue. This generation sees it as opportunity and weakness. If you do it with Zeke, you only hurt the rest of the league and create problems for everybody. This is to say nothing of what you do to the team. We will see a continuous stream of this type of behavior from every rookie we bring in. It's a mistake to do this, is all I'm saying.

You raise some valid concerns. And with most teams I’d probably agree. Completely different situation here. We have no team discipline or structure.

But in the end if Elliott helps us raise a banner is all that will matter. IMO the window won’t be open long with this core of talent .

We’ve already blown a couple chances to go further this era. I hate to see us cut loose of one of our best talent over a few million we can probably afford.

 

[Diehardblues]

He's not the top RB and to this point, it's really not the discussion that he should be having with the team or that the team should be entertaining. Why should the team consider these demands, after the way he has behaved, while in the NFL?

Behavior isn’t a factor to me or I would have cut him in 2017.

The NFL is full of women beaters, rapist, druggies, even a dog killer but if they can carry, catch or chunk that rock they can help us win football games.

I’d be all for a higher morality in football but until that happens I want a thug too if he can help us win.

 

[OmerV]

It was stupid to take him. He had history at Ohio State, he played a position with a short shelf life and there was a trade market for the player. There were also players available with similar or better value at other positions of need. One of them was bound to fall to us and one did, we just elected not to take the player. I believe it was a bad pick but hey, I don't expect to get anybody who was in favor of it to acknowledge that it was a bad move.

2015 was created by the team because of their unwillingness to spend in FA or use the draft picks necessary to take a good back. If the team couldn't find one, that says more about the way the team drafted then it does about the availability of talent. I'm sorry but it was clearly possible for any decent back to be productive behind our OL. McFadden did it, we just needed to spend the resources necessary to bring one or two in. When Zeke came along, we suddenly forgot all about those things and went hog wild, so to speak. Was not a wise decision IMO. Great player but he has been nothing but trouble since he got here.

Yeah he had a history at Ohio State - of averaging 132 yards and 1.5 TD's per game his last 2 seasons. lol - sorry, I couldn't help that.

But sure other positions of need could have been filled, and it wouldn't have been unreasonable to consider some of those, but I don't know that the entire scheme of either the offense or defense was as centered on any of those positions as the offense was around the running back. That makes RB a strong consideration.

As for the idea "any RB can do it behind our O-Line", Jerry briefly bought that, but I don't think many others did, and I don't think Jerry does any more.

As for Zeke being trouble since coming to Dallas, I'm not going to dispute that. But that's hindsight, and not really a comment about the need to fill the position. We unfortunately don't always know how a college kid will react once he gets a little fame and money.

In any case we will agree to disagree on this one.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You raise some valid concerns. And with most teams I’d probably agree. Completely different situation here. We have no team discipline or structure.

But in the end if Elliott helps us raise a banner is all that will matter. IMO the window won’t be open long with this core of talent .

We’ve already blown a couple chances to go further this era. I hate to see us cut loose of one of our best talent over a few million we can probably afford.

I understand. I guess I just think it's more important to establish a system for how we are going to operate as a franchise and to send a signal to these players, for future business dealings. Zeke is not the key. The OL, the Defense and Dak are the keys. Zeke is a great player but we can get another RB to fill his spot without nearly as much trouble or cost.

Ask yourself, what happens if you given in to Elliott two years early on his deal with the top money at his position. How do you then turn around and tell Dak that the team can't pay him 32 or even 35 a year and expect him to be good with that. Same for Coop. Thomas just signed a 100 mil WR deal. What do you do with Cooper then?

I think we've got a chance to have more then just a few years of window and a Championship, maybe. That's how small organizations think. We have a chance to build something that lasts if we can get the talent base down and the way we handle our finances. Jerry does right by these players, they don't need to try and take advantage of him. Zeke can be a part of that or he can go chase money with the bottom feeders of the NFL. It's his choice really.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah he had a history at Ohio State - of averaging 113 yards and 1.2 TD's per game, and that was with 20% of those games being as a part time player in his sophomore season. lol - sorry, I couldn't help that.

But sure other positions of need could have been filled, and it wouldn't have been unreasonable to consider some of those, but I don't know that the entire scheme of either the offense or defense was as centered on any of those positions as the offense was around the running back. That makes RB a strong consideration.

As for the "any RB can do it behind our O-Line theory, yeah, Jerry briefly bought into that, but I don't think many other people did, and I don't think Jerry does any more.

As for Zeke being trouble since coming to Dallas, I'm not going to dispute that. But that's hindsight, and not really a comment about the need to fill the position. We unfortunately don't always know how a college kid will react once he gets a little fame and money.

In any case we will agree to disagree on this one.

People see what they want to see. You want to see 113 yards a contest and 1.2 TDs. You, like so many others, apparently want to look pass the other things. That's fine, that's your right. I don't, too many red flags for me but everybody is different.

For the record, I didn't say "any" RB. I said, "any NFL RB with skills".

 

[OmerV]

I understand but moral character isn’t part of evaluating elite talent.

If we took the Thugs out of the NFL we’d lose a good portion of talent . Often talent that helps you win a championship.

I agree with you except for one thing. It was much easier to get away with things when Irvin played. If he were playing now he would either clean up or he would end up suspended for life.

 

[OmerV]

People see what they want to see. You want to see 113 yards a contest and 1.2 TDs. You, like so many others, apparently want to look pass the other things. That's fine, that's your right. I don't, too many red flags for me but everybody is different.

Like what other things? He wasn't an angel in college, but was there anything so terrible that major red flags were flying in the air? Some unique problem that doesn't normally occur with college kids? In any case, that's commentary on him personally, not on the need to fill the position or his ability to do so.

 

[OmerV]

For the record, I didn't say "any" RB. I said, "any NFL RB with skills".

How do you define "with skill"? Does that mean the ability to be a standout and carry the load on his shoulders, like Zeke? Does it mean the ability to be a solid RB, or earn a starting role at least for some portion of his career? Does it mean an average RB?

There really aren't that many that can have a major influence on games. They aren't a dime a dozen.

 

[Diehardblues]

I understand. I guess I just think it's more important to establish a system for how we are going to operate as a franchise and to send a signal to these players, for future business dealings. Zeke is not the key. The OL, the Defense and Dak are the keys. Zeke is a great player but we can get another RB to fill his spot without nearly as much trouble or cost.

Ask yourself, what happens if you given in to Elliott two years early on his deal with the top money at his position. How do you then turn around and tell Dak that the team can't pay him 32 or even 35 a year and expect him to be good with that. Same for Coop. Thomas just signed a 100 mil WR deal. What do you do with Cooper then?

I think we've got a chance to have more then just a few years of window and a Championship, maybe. That's how small organizations think. We have a chance to build something that lasts if we can get the talent base down and the way we handle our finances. Jerry does right by these players, they don't need to try and take advantage of him. Zeke can be a part of that or he can go chase money with the bottom feeders of the NFL. It's his choice really.

It’s easy . Zeke is near the top of his profession. Prescott isn’t. If Zeke was 15th ranked RB in the league he wouldn’t be holding out.

This is sports at the highest level. The Elite talent get the perks and everything else associated. I didn’t make the rules up. These guys know the deal. No other player on this team would get away with what Zeke has.

Jerry has no discipline or structure here. Your fooling yourself if you believe that. We had it with Tom and Jimmy but not since. Bill tried to but Jerry overruled him.

This crap wouldn’t work in NE. Bill would say Adios **.

Most teams in Cap era window is small . Even with Elite QB’s with rare exception. If you don’t believe our best shot is now then we'll just have to disagree. But that’s the driving force behind my argument. The Future Is Now.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Like what other things? He wasn't an angel in college, but was there anything so terrible that major red flags were flying in the air? Some unique problem that doesn't normally occur with college kids? In any case, that's commentary on him personally, not on the need to fill the position or his ability to do so.

There were definitely drug related, sever alcohol and Abuse or Violence issues that were covered up but I mean, all of that was out there. We took him anyway. You can look at these and say they are normal college kid things. I don't, I want the kid who is not average or who is above that kind of thing. Those kids exist and those are the kinds of players I want at #4.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It’s easy . Zeke is near the top of his profession. Prescott isn’t. If Zeke was 15th ranked RB in the league he wouldn’t be holding out.

This is sports at the highest level. The Elite talent get the perks and everything else associated. I didn’t make the dukes up. These guys know the deal.

Jerry has no discipline or structure here. Your fooling yourself if you believe that. We had it with Tom and Jimmy but not since. Bill tried to but Jerry overruled him.

This crap wouldn’t work in NE. Bill would say Adios **.

Most teams in Cap era window is small . Even with Elite QB’s with rare exception. If you don’t believe our best shot is now then we'll just have to disagree. But that’s the driving force behind my argument. The Future Is Now.

It won't be that easy. End of day, QB is the most important position and you are never going to get away with paying Zeke and not doing the same for Dak. Hell, we can't even get Dak to settle for 30 mil, much less. You do that with Zeke and you screw yourself with Dak. I'm on record with that one.

 

[Diehardblues]

It won't be that easy. End of day, QB is the most important position and you are never going to get away with paying Zeke and not doing the same for Dak. Hell, we can't even get Dak to settle for 30 mil, much less. You do that with Zeke and you screw yourself with Dak. I'm on record with that one.

I’d let Dak walk if he won’t take 30 million. He’s not that elite of QB. And we’ll see if Elliott and or Cooper aren’t on the field the effects. We already have. If he proves otherwise carrying the team with lesser surrounding talent , then pay him.

If not let them both go and get a closer to Elite QB that you don’t need an Elite RB.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I’d let Dak walk if he won’t take 30 million. He’s not that elite of QB. And we’ll see if Elliott and or Cooper aren’t on the field the effects. We already have. If he proves otherwise carrying the team with lesser surrounding talent , then pay him.

If not let them both go and get a closer to Elite QB that you don’t need an Elite RB.

Honestly, I'd trade either one of those guys if I could be assured of a chance to take a QB next year. I can find another RB and it don't have to be Zeke. Just saying.

 

[Silver Surfer]

Anyone who has this thought process is nothing but jealous and a whiner.

Thanks for the laugh, tough guy.

Here's a free like.... looks like you could use one.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

How do you define "with skill"? Does that mean the ability to be a standout and carry the load on his shoulders, like Zeke? Does it mean the ability to be a solid RB, or earn a starting role at least for some portion of his career? Does it mean an average RB?

There really aren't that many that can have a major influence on games. They aren't a dime a dozen.

Yes, the ability to be a 20 carry back for you. He doesn't have to have the athletic ability that Zeke does, he just has to be smart, he has to be able to get through the hole, he has to be able to block and catch the ball and run routes. He doesn't have to be a 4.4/4.3 guy at 230 lbs. He can be a shade below and still be able to be very effective for us. They are cheap and there are a lot of them. You just need to have a quality position coach and a guy who can find that talent. We are not great at drafting RBs, that's just the truth. Zeke was a can't miss guy, which is why they did what they did, in terms of physical RB skills but there are other guys out there. I mean, there are way too many lower round dudes making an impact at RB in the NFL. They are out there.

 

[OmerV]

There were definitely drug related, sever alcohol and Abuse or Violence issues that were covered up but I mean, all of that was out there. We took him anyway. You can look at these and say they are normal college kid things. I don't, I want the kid who is not average or who is above that kind of thing. Those kids exist and those are the kinds of players I want at #4.

Were there? I remember something about him getting caught with some others smoking pot in a dorm room. I want to say that was his sophomore year and not even his junior year/last year in college. But I don't remember anything concrete beyond that, and I'm not going along with the internet rumor mill on things that were supposedly covered up. May be true, but history has repeatedly shown that those kinds of things are often BS too. All a team can do is check into things and get to know the kid an make a decision.

Are you sure Jaylon Ramsey never got drunk or smoked a joint in college?

In any case, if a team were to restrict its drafts to players it can confirm has never smoked pot or had too much to drink, they would have lousy drafts and not be able to compete. Besides, I did those things a time or two myself in college, and I think I turned out okay. lol