Why draft a back 4th overall if you’re not willing to pay him?

[Diehardblues]

You can argue that all day long, half the night. Doesn't mean it holds merit. He's under contract, he signed to play Football at a negotiated rate. A rate that his own players union negotiated as fair. That's it, that's the deal.

As to the productivity of the Offense without Elliott, well, I see no proof of that. Our Offense 22nd in the NFL last season. 14th the year before that. The year before that, we were 5th. It seems to me that our Offense has continually declined since the arrival of Zeke. Now, I don't believe this is indicative of Zeke but I do believe it reflects on the importance of what Zeke brings to the Offense.

Deals can be renegotiated.

If you believe our offense is less with Elliott then I can understand you not wanting to retain his services.

 

[OmerV]

But look who was drafted the year before: David Johnson (3rd Rd), Melvin Gordon (15th overall), Todd Gurley (10th Overall), Jay AjayI (5th Rd), Duke Johnson (3rd Rd), Tevin Coleman (3rd Rd), Yeldon (2nd Rd).

Look at 2017: Fournette (who was also taken too high, 4th overall), Kareem Hunt (3rd Rd), Alvin Kamara (3rd rd), Christian McCaffery (8th overall), Joe Mixon (2nd rd), Delvin Cook (2nd Rd), James Conner (3rd rd), Chris Carson (7th Rd).

I mean, the proof is overwhelming that you don't need to take a RB at the top of the Draft to get a quality player. The Cowboys could have easily signed an FA and taken a RB later in either of these drafts, to address RB, without spending a 4th overall on Elliott. I don't buy into the value, especially if he continues to be a problem. Nobody is disputing the fact that he is a talented player. The dispute is in the actual value of spending that high a pick on the position.

I don't think in 2016 they could have jumped into a time machine and travelled back to 2015 or ahead to 2017 to take a running back ….

Plus Gurley and Gordon were off the board by the time the Cowboys picked in 2015, and Fournette and McCaffrey were off the board by the time they picked in 2017. And the deeper you go beyond that into a draft, the less certainty there is. And, do you really think they were going to count on finding a 7th rounder like Carson?

2017 was a great year for RB's, but it's not like that is the norm and could have simply been assumed. Most years are lucky to produce one or two outstanding RBs, with maybe a few capable rotational guys or solid backups.

And, I'll bet if you look at the 2015 college seasons of those guys that worked out well as draft picks in 2017 (after the 2016 college season), you would find at least some weren't yet even on the radar as possible quality NFL backs, and they needed the 2016 college season to establish that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Deals can be renegotiated.

If you believe our offense is less with Elliott then I can understand you not wanting to retain his services.

And players can be traded or just plain sit a season if they do not want to honor their contract. If we are fortunate enough to win a Championship this year, the reason will not be because Zeke has come back with a record breaking deal. It will be because Dak has taken significant strides at QB and because the Coaching Staff has actually improved IMO.

To me, it's interesting that you use the term, "retain his services". There is zero threat of losing Zeke's "services". We have Zeke for 4 years, if we want him. He can sit, but he will only cost himself money and lose years of service. Meanwhile, we would likely move on to another option at RB and they will be successful because our OL is that good. Why do any of this? If Zeke doesn't want to play in Dallas for the money he signed to play for, move him. Go get another guy or guys, who will be cheaper and will be productive.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't think in 2016 they could have jumped into a time machine and travelled back to 2015 or ahead to 2017 to take a running back … They can't go back and do what they maybe should have done the year before, and the following year is uncertain as those guys still have another year to prove themselves. All they can do is draft in the year the draft is held.

Plus Gurley and Gordon were off the board by the time the Cowboys picked in 2015, and Fournette and McCaffrey were off the board by the time they picked in 2017.

2017 was a great year for RB's, but it's not like that is the norm and could have simply been assumed. Most years are lucky to produce one or two outstanding RBs, with maybe a few capable rotational guys or solid backups. And, I'll bet if you look at the 2016 college seasons of those guys that worked out well as draft picks in 2017, you would find at least some weren't yet even on the radar as possible quality NFL backs, and they needed the 2017 college season to establish that. In 2016 the Cowboys hadn't yet seen the 2017 college season.

You are acting as if this game is played in a vacuum. The Cowboys didn't have to take Zeke at 4 overall and they weren't in a position where they had no options at RB. The point is that you can find RBs anywhere in the Draft and we are good enough up front to bring in a lessor talent and still get good production, if you bring in viable NFL talent at the position. Clearly, that is the case because teams are finding them outside of the top 10 in the draft.

2017 may have been a better then average year for RB but the reverse is that 2016 was clearly out of the ordinary.

 

[OmerV]

You are acting as if this game is played in a vacuum. The Cowboys didn't have to take Zeke at 4 overall and they weren't in a position where they had no options at RB. The point is that you can find RBs anywhere in the Draft and we are good enough up front to bring in a lessor talent and still get good production, if you bring in viable NFL talent at the position. Clearly, that is the case because teams are finding them outside of the top 10 in the draft.

2017 may have been a better then average year for RB but the reverse is that 2016 was clearly out of the ordinary.

First, it seems you are under the impression I am saying drafting Zeke was the only possible way the Cowboys could have gone. I'm not, I'm only saying it was a reasonable choice. And, again, when the offensive philosophy is so heavily dependsant on a strong running game, I don't see how you can argue that taking the most sure thing at RB is unreasonable.

Your comment is consistently that you "CAN" find RBs anywhere in the draft. It's easy to say that, but because there are examples of RB's taken in later rounds that worked out doesn't mean it happens every year, or that a team is assured of identifying a RB like that if one exists, or even if they do identify what they think is a good candidate that they will have the opportunity to draft him before someone else does. If those guys were sure things they wouldn't have lasted deeper in the draft. It's hit and miss - mostly miss.

And, again, where were all those available quality RBs in 2016? The only other RB in that draft that turned out well was taken in the 5th round after 9 other RB's were taken. It was obviously a crap shoot to find a quality one after Zeke, and the odds were stacked against.

And who were all these other options they had? Remember 2015 when we kicked Randle off the team and McFadden was hurt and we were scrambling to make do with Robert Turbin and Christin Michael? That was a nightmare. McFadden got healthy and had a nice year, but he had a history of injury problems even before that and had never been the most consistent of RBs through his career, so it's not unreasonable to think the team would want to firm up a position they felt was absolutely vital to the kind of offense they wanted to run.

 

[CB61]

All this handwringing over paying a 24 year old running back is ludicrous considering they spent a top 5 pick on him just a few seasons ago. All he’s done in 3 seasons is justify his draft position, and now we’re not willing to pay a back because of our philosophy? How does that make any sense?

They look like morons for taking him 4th overall if they’re not willing to pay him.

Go back and read the Murray story

 

[CB61]

They expected him to play at least another year of his rookie contract and then all this holding out stuff started or Le'Veon Bell started that I should say and that's where we are and I don't blame Jerry if he doesn't want to pay him Todd Gurley money look what happened to Gurley the way we've been using Elliott the touches hes had who knows ?

 

[CB61]

They expected him to play at least another year of his rookie contract and then all this holding out stuff started or Le'Veon Bell started that I should say and that's where we are and I don't blame Jerry if he doesn't want to pay him Todd Gurley money look what happened to Gurley the way we've been using Elliott the touches hes had who knows ?

And yes I know girly had a problem coming into the NFL and Zeke Didnt

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

First, it seems you are under the impression I am saying drafting Zeke was the only possible way the Cowboys could have gone. I'm not, I'm only saying it was a reasonable choice. And, again, when the offensive philosophy is so heavily dependsant on a strong running game, I don't see how you can argue that taking the most sure thing at RB is unreasonable.

Your comment is consistently that you "CAN" find RBs anywhere in the draft. It's easy to say that, but because there are examples of RB's taken in later rounds that worked out doesn't mean it happens every year, or that a team is assured of identifying a RB like that if one exists, or even if they do identify what they think is a good candidate that they will have the opportunity to draft him before someone else does. If those guys were sure things they wouldn't have lasted deeper in the draft. It's hit and miss - mostly miss.

And, again, where were all those available quality RBs in 2016? The only other RB in that draft that turned out well was taken in the 5th round after 9 other RB's were taken. It was obviously a crap shoot to find a quality one after Zeke, and the odds were stacked against.

And who were all these other options they had? Remember 2015 when we kicked Randle off the team and McFadden was hurt and we were scrambling to make do with Robert Turbin and Christin Michael? That was a nightmare. McFadden got healthy and had a nice year, but he had a history of injury problems even before that and had never been the most consistent of RBs through his career, so it's not unreasonable to think the team would want to firm up a position they felt was absolutely vital to the kind of offense they wanted to run.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

First, it seems you are under the impression I am saying drafting Zeke was the only possible way the Cowboys could have gone. I'm not, I'm only saying it was a reasonable choice. And, again, when the offensive philosophy is so heavily dependsant on a strong running game, I don't see how you can argue that taking the most sure thing at RB is unreasonable.

Your comment is consistently that you "CAN" find RBs anywhere in the draft. It's easy to say that, but because there are examples of RB's taken in later rounds that worked out doesn't mean it happens every year, or that a team is assured of identifying a RB like that if one exists, or even if they do identify what they think is a good candidate that they will have the opportunity to draft him before someone else does. If those guys were sure things they wouldn't have lasted deeper in the draft. It's hit and miss - mostly miss.

And, again, where were all those available quality RBs in 2016? The only other RB in that draft that turned out well was taken in the 5th round after 9 other RB's were taken. It was obviously a crap shoot to find a quality one after Zeke, and the odds were stacked against.

And who were all these other options they had? Remember 2015 when we kicked Randle off the team and McFadden was hurt and we were scrambling to make do with Robert Turbin and Christin Michael? That was a nightmare. McFadden got healthy and had a nice year, but he had a history of injury problems even before that and had never been the most consistent of RBs through his career, so it's not unreasonable to think the team would want to firm up a position they felt was absolutely vital to the kind of offense they wanted to run.

It was stupid to take him. He had history at Ohio State, he played a position with a short shelf life and there was a trade market for the player. There were also players available with similar or better value at other positions of need. One of them was bound to fall to us and one did, we just elected not to take the player. I believe it was a bad pick but hey, I don't expect to get anybody who was in favor of it to acknowledge that it was a bad move.

2015 was created by the team because of their unwillingness to spend in FA or use the draft picks necessary to take a good back. If the team couldn't find one, that says more about the way the team drafted then it does about the availability of talent. I'm sorry but it was clearly possible for any decent back to be productive behind our OL. McFadden did it, we just needed to spend the resources necessary to bring one or two in. When Zeke came along, we suddenly forgot all about those things and went hog wild, so to speak. Was not a wise decision IMO. Great player but he has been nothing but trouble since he got here.

 

[Diehardblues]

It was stupid to take him. He had history at Ohio State, he played a position with a short shelf life and there was a trade market for the player. There were also players available with similar or better value at other positions of need. One of them was bound to fall to us and one did, we just elected not to take the player. I believe it was a bad pick but hey, I don't expect to get anybody who was in favor of it to acknowledge that it was a bad move.

2015 was created by the team because of their unwillingness to spend in FA or use the draft picks necessary to take a good back. If the team couldn't find one, that says more about the way the team drafted then it does about the availability of talent. I'm sorry but it was clearly possible for any decent back to be productive behind our OL. McFadden did it, we just needed to spend the resources necessary to bring one or two in. When Zeke came along, we suddenly forgot all about those things and went hog wild, so to speak. Was not a wise decision IMO. Great player but he has been nothing but trouble since he got here.

So, if he wasn’t a problem guy with all of his baggage you’d be ok with him?

How did you like Michael Irvin?

 

[Batman1980]

I think Michael Irvin is scum.

 

[Diehardblues]

I think Michael Irvin is scum.

I did too. But we tolerated him. Why?

 

[Batman1980]

I didn't tolerate him. I thought he should've been run off the team for all the nonsense he pulled and certainly shouldn't be in the HOF.

 

[Diehardblues]

I didn't tolerate him. I thought he should've been run off the team for all the nonsense he pulled and certainly shouldn't be in the HOF.

I understand but moral character isn’t part of evaluating elite talent.

If we took the Thugs out of the NFL we’d lose a good portion of talent . Often talent that helps you win a championship.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So, if he wasn’t a problem guy with all of his baggage you’d be ok with him?

How did you like Michael Irvin?

Tons better, he didn't sit out and demand 60 million.

The answer to your first question is no. I don't know if I'm not speaking English or what, it is a bad idea to draft a RB with the 4th over all pick. It was a worse idea to take Zeke but it could have been any RB, it would still have been a bad move IMO. Offenses are no longer driven by the run game. As a result, it is unwise to draft a player that doesn't play a premium position, that high if you do not have to. The Cowboys did this and it was unwise then and it's still stupid now. Has nothing to do with Zeke, he just makes things worse because of his immaturity.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I understand but moral character isn’t part of evaluating elite talent.

If we took the Thugs out of the NFL we’d lose a good portion of talent . Often talent that helps you win a championship.

But it is part of the process of evaluating draft picks, especially in the top 5. Those guys are supposed to be the cornerstones of your organization.

 

[Diehardblues]

Tons better, he didn't sit out and demand 60 million.

The answer to your first question is no. I don't know if I'm not speaking English or what, it is a bad idea to draft a RB with the 4th over all pick. It was a worse idea to take Zeke but it could have been any RB, it would still have been a bad move IMO. Offenses are no longer driven by the run game. As a result, it is unwise to draft a player that doesn't play a premium position, that high if you do not have to. The Cowboys did this and it was unwise then and it's still stupid now. Has nothing to do with Zeke, he just makes things worse because of his immaturity.

I respect your opinion. But my argument revolves more around our franchise decision. And the motivating factors. It’s a given they’re idiots on the most part . And why we have been a talent driven franchise. Taking away talent doesn’t help us given the other idiocies.

 

[Batman1980]

Overpaying it doesn't help, either.

 

[Diehardblues]

But it is part of the process of evaluating draft picks, especially in the top 5. Those guys are supposed to be the cornerstones of your organization.

We knew of his problem behavior.

But since we’re poor talent evaluators overall we’re willing to take these chances on more sure bets in talent level and try to deal with their other issues. It’s part of what we give up with a dysfunctional organization.