How is Dak worth more than Nick Foles?

[jnday]

So what would the Cowboys record be in 2019 if Dak misses the season? What record would Cooper Rush lead us to?

Pssst... Dak DOES have a W/L record. QB records are kept for a reason. There’s a reason the QBs with the most wins are typically among the very best in NFL history.

LOL “any average QB”, that’s cute... do you mean average starting QB? So 10-20 range? Or are you so dense that you think any NFL QB, even scrubs like Nathan Peterman, could go 32-16 with this “amazing supporting cast”?

Any average starting NFL QB could do as well as Dak if not better than him. Is that statement hard to understand? Dallas has not won because of Dak’s play, but in spite of it. Dak was rated the 18th QB in the league until the very end when he advanced upwards a couple of spots. Everybody freaks out in fear of losing Dak, but finding a replacement QB would not be that hard. The problem in Dallas is that they have not tried to find another QB.There is little doubt in my mind that Foles would have been an upgrade along with other QBs at his level. Have you ever considered how much better this team would be with a QB that doesn’t struggle to pass for 200 yards a game?

 

[Nav22]

Any average starting NFL QB could do as well as Dak if not better than him. Is that statement hard to understand? Dallas has not won because of Dak’s play, but in spite of it. Dak was rated the 18th QB in the league until the very end when he advanced upwards a couple of spots. Everybody freaks out in fear of losing Dak, but finding a replacement QB would not be that hard. The problem in Dallas is that they have not tried to find another QB.There is little doubt in my mind that Foles would have been an upgrade along with other QBs at his level. Have you ever considered how much better this team would be with a QB that doesn’t struggle to pass for 200 yards a game?

Unless you’re willing to bring real stats into the discussion, I’m not wasting my time.

Are you smart enough to know that “struggles to pass for 200 yards” means absolutely nothing unless you include the context of yards PER ATTEMPT? Doesn’t sound like it.

Even if you think Dak is “average”, he’s young and likely hasn’t reached his prime as a QB yet.

Why are you so sure Foles, who completely failed in his non-Eagles stints, would be an upgrade? Are you THAT sure that Foles won’t fall off in Jacksonville? Vegas has the Jags over/under at 8 wins, why don’t you call Caesars today and double your bank account????

What other QBs “at his level” would be an upgrade? Which ones were available to us?

 

[OmerV]

Stats always matter. Wins always matter. Game winning drives always matter. Everything matters, to attempt to remove something to argue something else as you have done removes context.

I never dismissed Sanchez’s stats. 0 GW drives or 4th quarter comebacks is a stat. Nick Foles going 6-2 while Sanchez went 4-4 is a stat. Sanchez taking 23 sacks in 8 games while Foles took only 9 in 8 games is a stat. It’s provable Foles brought his team back from the jaws of defeat multiple times while Sanchez folded.

You say Sanchez went 0-3 against winning teams? Well I say Nick went 2-1, and a fourth team SF, who had made 2 straight NFCCG before this, would have had a winning record had Foles not been one of their 8 losses.

The argument is Nick Foles has had many good years, from long ago to not so long ago. And no, this isn’t erased because Mark sanchez threw 14 tds that one time.

Always twisting - I said he lost to the 3 best teams in the NFC, not merely teams with a winning record. If you aren’t even going to try for a fair discourse, just give it up.

And if all stats matter, and you aren’t dismissing stats, then it is reasonable to say Sanchez played as well as Foles.

Are Noël you going to go back to GW drives is what counts? Lol.

The Sanchez thing is still just a sideline anyway. The question is still about why Foles would be valued less than Dak, and you are talking about stats from 6 years ago, and stats from 5 years ago that weren’t better than Daks stats anyway, and GW dives, which also favors Dak anyway, and wins, which also favors Dak.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Nick Foles signed a 4 year, $88,000,000 contract with the Jacksonville Jaguars, including a $25,000,000 signing bonus, $50,125,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $22,000,000. In 2019, Foles will earn a base salary of $5,000,000, a signing bonus of $25,000,000, a roster bonus of $500,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $12,000,000 and a dead cap value of $45,125,000.

Foles won the Super Bowl and has made the Pro Bowl. Dark isn't worth more than Foles.

Because anyone with an inkling of ability to judge QB's can tell very easily that both Wentz, when healthy, and Dak are better QB's.

 

[OmerV]

Any average starting NFL QB could do as well as Dak if not better than him. Is that statement hard to understand? Dallas has not won because of Dak’s play, but in spite of it. Dak was rated the 18th QB in the league until the very end when he advanced upwards a couple of spots. Everybody freaks out in fear of losing Dak, but finding a replacement QB would not be that hard. The problem in Dallas is that they have not tried to find another QB.There is little doubt in my mind that Foles would have been an upgrade along with other QBs at his level. Have you ever considered how much better this team would be with a QB that doesn’t struggle to pass for 200 yards a game?

Even if he were the 18th best QB, which doesn't make sense to even say because (a) as you admitted, that is not how he actually finished, and (b) because QB impact cannot be judged solely on stats, that still leaves 14 NFL teams (44% of the NFL) that have a lesser QB. With that being the case, how can you justify saying Dak wouldn't be hard to replace? At a minimum 14 teams have not been able to come up with someone as good or better than Dak, so clearly it isn't that easy. And that's especially true considering the Cowboys are likely to have at least a good season, if not an outstanding one, meaning they won't have a high draft choice to use on a QB.

Your narrative is also off base because it assumes there only 2 options are that a QB is either the reason a team wins, or a team has to win in spite of a QB. The reality is a team can win WITH a QB - with the team working together as a cohesive unit, with the QB being a key part of the cohesive unit and is neither carrying the team on his back, nor is he dragging the team down.

The win in spite of him argument is pretty weak by the way. A team doesn't win 67% of its games over 3 years by having to overcome a bad QB who hurts the team more than helps it.

 

[Section446]

Nope, Foles is a better QB.

 

[OmerV]

Nope, Foles is a better QB.

Who could argue against this? It's a well thought out post full of facts and logic.

 

[jnday]

Unless you’re willing to bring real stats into the discussion, I’m not wasting my time.

Are you smart enough to know that “struggles to pass for 200 yards” means absolutely nothing unless you include the context of yards PER ATTEMPT? Doesn’t sound like it.

Even if you think Dak is “average”, he’s young and likely hasn’t reached his prime as a QB yet.

Why are you so sure Foles, who completely failed in his non-Eagles stints, would be an upgrade? Are you THAT sure that Foles won’t fall off in Jacksonville? Vegas has the Jags over/under at 8 wins, why don’t you call Caesars today and double your bank account????

What other QBs “at his level” would be an upgrade? Which ones were available to us?

Foles has only played with one talented team and he won a Super Bowl. Other than that, he has not had the luxury of playing with teams such Dallas that has a high talent level. Foles will fall off with the Jags due to the talent level. Do you really think Dak wouldn’t? There are several QBs available every year that could win in Dallas. Dak has not and is not the reason why Dallas is finally playing at the level they have in the last couple of years. You want stats? Try Dak being the 18th ranked QB in the league for 3/4 of the season last year. When is this big improvement going to come? From all indications he is playing exactly the same in TC this year. He has played exactly the same since high school, same faults. I think it says a lot when the NFL players don’t even vote him into the top 100 players in the league. That shows how little respect they have for him and his skills. Dallas would have been better served and traded for Rosen. At least Rosen has the potential to be an elite QB in the coming years instead of a poor man’s Cam Newton which is exactly what Dak is .

 

[jnday]

Even if he were the 18th best QB, which doesn't make sense to even say because (a) as you admitted, that is not how he actually finished, and (b) because QB impact cannot be judged solely on stats, that still leaves 14 NFL teams (44% of the NFL) that have a lesser QB. With that being the case, how can you justify saying Dak wouldn't be hard to replace? At a minimum 14 teams have not been able to come up with someone as good or better than Dak, so clearly it isn't that easy. And that's especially true considering the Cowboys are likely to have at least a good season, if not an outstanding one, meaning they won't have a high draft choice to use on a QB.

Your narrative is also off base because it assumes there only 2 options are that a QB is either the reason a team wins, or a team has to win in spite of a QB. The reality is a team can win WITH a QB - with the team working together as a cohesive unit, with the QB being a key part of the cohesive unit and is neither carrying the team on his back, nor is he dragging the team down.

The win in spite of him argument is pretty weak by the way. A team doesn't win 67% of its games over 3 years by having to overcome a bad QB who hurts the team more than helps it.

Those other 14 teams have QBs that could play just as well as Dak, if not better, if they had the best RB in the league, a top 5 OL and Cooper as a 1st WR. Dak has to have all of those things including a very good defense. Even with those advantages Dallas was on the winning side of a lot of close games that should have been blowouts if a competent QB was playing .

 

[Nav22]

Foles has only played with one talented team and he won a Super Bowl. Other than that, he has not had the luxury of playing with teams such Dallas that has a high talent level. Foles will fall off with the Jags due to the talent level. Do you really think Dak wouldn’t? There are several QBs available every year that could win in Dallas. Dak has not and is not the reason why Dallas is finally playing at the level they have in the last couple of years. You want stats? Try Dak being the 18th ranked QB in the league for 3/4 of the season last year. When is this big improvement going to come? From all indications he is playing exactly the same in TC this year. He has played exactly the same since high school, same faults. I think it says a lot when the NFL players don’t even vote him into the top 100 players in the league. That shows how little respect they have for him and his skills. Dallas would have been better served and traded for Rosen. At least Rosen has the potential to be an elite QB in the coming years instead of a poor man’s Cam Newton which is exactly what Dak is .

Where was Nick Foles on that awesome Top 100 list?

Oh, he wasn’t on it either? OOPS!!!


LOLLLL where is this “high talent level” Dallas allegedly had? The OL was average last year due to injuries... the WR corps was the worst in football before the Cooper trade... no TE to speak of last year... and a defense that got eaten alive by the Rams in the playoffs.

Don’t get me started on Garrett/Linehan and the level of respect THEY get around here. So Dak is also overcoming “poor coaching.”

LOL adorable how Foles’ utter failures are due to “not enough talent”. Dak has 3 winning seasons in 3 years, regardless of what’s around him. He’s also 4-3 in games without Zeke, with 4 straight wins... you know, the guy who’s “carrying him”?


18th-ranked QB for “3/4 of the year”... GEE, I WONDER why you didn’t include the full year!!!


96.0 career passer rating. 83 total TD, 25 INT, 32-16 record, 2 division titles and a playoff win.

I know it hurts.

 

[Nav22]

Those other 14 teams have QBs that could play just as well as Dak, if not better, if they had the best RB in the league, a top 5 OL and Cooper as a 1st WR. Dak has to have all of those things including a very good defense. Even with those advantages Dallas was on the winning side of a lot of close games that should have been blowouts if a competent QB was playing .

So let me get this straight...

According to you, there are exactly ZERO starting QBs that Dak Prescott is better than?

This is amazing.

 

[jnday]

Where was Nick Foles on that awesome Top 100 list?

Oh, he wasn’t on it either? OOPS!!!


LOLLLL where is this “high talent level” Dallas allegedly had? The OL was average last year due to injuries... the WR corps was the worst in football before the Cooper trade... no TE to speak of last year... and a defense that got eaten alive by the Rams in the playoffs.

Don’t get me started on Garrett/Linehan and the level of respect THEY get around here. So Dak is also overcoming “poor coaching.”

LOL adorable how Foles’ utter failures are due to “not enough talent”. Dak has 3 winning seasons in 3 years, regardless of what’s around him. He’s also 4-3 in games without Zeke, with 4 straight wins... you know, the guy who’s “carrying him”?


18th-ranked QB for “3/4 of the year”... GEE, I WONDER why you didn’t include the full year!!!


96.0 career passer rating. 83 total TD, 25 INT, 32-16 record, 2 division titles and a playoff win.

I know it hurts.

Dak only improved to 15th in the last couple of games. You really get excited defending mediocrity. I never said Foles made the top 100, but I did say that he would do just as well as Dak if not better if he was in Dallas. Another point you thought you made was Dak not playing with good WRs. Dak made Dez useless because he in incapable of throwing the back shoulder passes that brings out the best in Dez. It was reported several times that Hurns and other WRs was getting open, but they was not open enough for Dak because he is not accurate enough to fit the ball in tight spaces. Hearns was quoted as saying that he was consistently getting open, but Dak never saw him. Broadus and other Dallas media types made the same point that Hearns made about Dak not seeing open WRs. Dak checks his first option WR and if he is not open, he dumps it off. By the way, the OL was not that bad, but Dak’s poor pocket presence made them look worse than they was because he was holding on to the ball too long and causing sacks. I can go on and on pointing out the flaws in Dak’s game that makes him a very average QB. I know you and several others fight really hard to defend mediocrity just because he is a Cowboy. In another post, Dak was compared to Andy Dalton. I have read posts from fans for years about Dalton being a joke. Guess what? Dalton and Dak are as close to being identical as any two QBs can be when comparing their numbers.

 

[jnday]

So let me get this straight...

According to you, there are exactly ZERO starting QBs that Dak Prescott is better than?

This is amazing.

Exactly where did I say that? Dak is very average and I am sure that he is better than some starting QBs. There are average QBs on many teams. I will say that some of those average QBs could equal or better Dak’s play if they was in Dak’s position. Another question is how would Dak do if he was on some of these bad teams? He is not the type of QB that can carry a team. He is not the type that is going to take over a game either. The truth is that Dak will never be the type of QB that will make the team better. He is not going to be the reason why Dallas wins two or three more games a year because he elevated his play. He is not talented enough to be that type of QB.

 

[Doomsday101]

Foles has done very well as a backup but when given the opportunity to be a starter heading into a season he has failed. A modern day Steve DeBerg

 

[CyberB0b]

Nick Foles was an average QB until he won SB MVP. It will be interesting to see what he does this year.

Below average. He was a journeyman backup. He's Case Keenum, essentially.

 

[CyberB0b]

Any average starting NFL QB could do as well as Dak if not better than him. Is that statement hard to understand? Dallas has not won because of Dak’s play, but in spite of it. Dak was rated the 18th QB in the league until the very end when he advanced upwards a couple of spots. Everybody freaks out in fear of losing Dak, but finding a replacement QB would not be that hard. The problem in Dallas is that they have not tried to find another QB.There is little doubt in my mind that Foles would have been an upgrade along with other QBs at his level. Have you ever considered how much better this team would be with a QB that doesn’t struggle to pass for 200 yards a game?

It's obvious that you don't care to watch football, or you're so blinded by your Dak hate, that you can't see reality. There's a reason why guys like Case Keenum, Brock Osweiler, Blake Bortles, etc always get huge money. There's just not enough winning QBs in the league. You can win with Dak. He's not Tom Brady, but no one is claiming he is.

 

[Starforever]

Came in here to say the same thing. Got em!!

So far, no answer.

 

[cowboyec]

I dunno but he sure as hell is worth more than wentz.

 

[OmerV]

Foles has done very well as a backup but when given the opportunity to be a starter heading into a season he has failed. A modern day Steve DeBerg

He had one strong season, but that was 6 years ago. Nobody is going to pay $30MM based on that.

 

[Doomsday101]

He had one strong season, but that was 6 years ago. Nobody is going to pay $30MM based on that.

I agree. I also see Jacksonville as a great opportunity for Foles. I think they have some good pieces in place but have lacked the QB. It will be interesting to see how he fairs this season.