How the NFL could prevent a lot of these hold outs

Reality

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Before anyone chimes in thinking I am pro-player or pro-team, let me be clear in saying I really do not favor either one.

I do not blame players for trying to get the most money they can because their career could end at any point due to injury or decline.

I also do not blame owners who do not want to sign a player to a bad contract that haunts them and their team and salary cap for years.

As I have said many times in the past, I treat players who hold out like injured players. I focus on the players who are practicing and playing. That doesn't mean I don't want a hold out player to return, but I am also not going to dwell on their absence any more than I would if they were injured.

So, with that said ..

Back in the 1990s, the upfront money was referred to as "signing bonus" money when in reality it was just a way for teams to manipulate their salary caps in the coming years.

Over the last several years, the term "singing bonus" has been replaced with a more appropriate and accurate name of "guaranteed money" as it is money the player is guaranteed to receive for signing the contract as long as the player does not violate the contract.

When you hear that a player is making a lower amount than they are worth in a later year of their contract, most people are forgetting that the player is actually making more than that because of the guaranteed money up front that was only paid up front because of the salary cap manipulation but still is pro-rated when it comes to actual salaries.

That's why if a player retires or violates their contract, they have to pay back the remaining pro-rated amount of their already paid guaranteed (signing bonus) money to their team.

For example, if you pay a player $25 million signing bonus and $5 million per year for 5 years, that's a $10m/year salary, and not a $30 million year one salary and $5 million for years 2 through 5.

If you agree to cut 5 lawns cutting one per day for $100 each and the HOA pays you $300 up front, that does not mean that you got paid $300 for cutting one lawn on day one and only $50 per lawn per day after that.

What the NFL needs to do is change how they pay out guaranteed money to players.

Instead of paying players all guaranteed money upfront, it should be paid over the length of the contract.

That way, teams and players (along with the media and fans) have a true understanding of what players are earning each year. That also means that players would have more to risk if they hold out, so the only holdouts would likely be the players who would likely get a huge pay increase over their current contract, not just a moderate increase.

The other thing it would do is lead to shorter contracts as players and their agents would be less likely to sign 5+ year contracts that are rarely ever completed except when the team uses their franchise tags on players.

Instead, rookies would likely be 3-4 year contracts depending on their drafted position and most contract extensions would likely be 2-4 years each time.

Players like Bell, Gordon and Elliott are the tip of the ice berg when it comes to hold outs. A lot more players are going to see that holding out leads to a new higher paying contract with their current team or a trade and new contract with a new team.

In that scenario, I think most people would do the same.
 

romonumberone

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I think the best way to get the players to honor the contracts is make the owners honor the contracts as well. In baseball you can prematurely cut the player before the contract has finished.... but you still have to pay the player. Contracts are a 2 way street.

I do not see a lot of MLB baseball players holding out.
 

texbumthelife

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I think the best way to get the players to honor the contracts is make the owners honor the contracts as well. In baseball you can prematurely cut the player before the contract has finished.... but you still have to pay the player. Contracts are a 2 way street.

I do not see a lot of MLB baseball players holding out.

Fully guaranteed contracts could work, but the money would have to come way down.
 

dallasfan4lizife

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I think the best way to get the players to honor the contracts is make the owners honor the contracts as well. In baseball you can prematurely cut the player before the contract has finished.... but you still have to pay the player. Contracts are a 2 way street.

I do not see a lot of MLB baseball players holding out.

This is how it's done in the NBA as well. They don't run into these issues dealing with much bigger egos than those of the players holding out in the NFL.
 

Reality

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I think the best way to get the players to honor the contracts is make the owners honor the contracts as well. In baseball you can prematurely cut the player before the contract has finished.... but you still have to pay the player. Contracts are a 2 way street.

I do not see a lot of MLB baseball players holding out.
This will not happen because serious injuries are way more common in NFL than in baseball, basketball, etc.

Yes, serious injuries can happen in any sport (and do) and even out of sports, but the NFL is a violent contact-based sport which increases the odds of serious injury.
 

NEODOG

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The problem with all this is real simple:

These current players aren't happy with the last bargaining agreement that was MADE & ratified


It's directly on the players...... Whoever agreed to the current structure needs a good kick to the shins
 

xwalker

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Before anyone chimes in thinking I am pro-player or pro-team, let me be clear in saying I really do not favor either one.

I do not blame players for trying to get the most money they can because their career could end at any point due to injury or decline.

I also do not blame owners who do not want to sign a player to a bad contract that haunts them and their team and salary cap for years.

As I have said many times in the past, I treat players who hold out like injured players. I focus on the players who are practicing and playing. That doesn't mean I don't want a hold out player to return, but I am also not going to dwell on their absence any more than I would if they were injured.

So, with that said ..

Back in the 1990s, the upfront money was referred to as "signing bonus" money when in reality it was just a way for teams to manipulate their salary caps in the coming years.

Over the last several years, the term "singing bonus" has been replaced with a more appropriate and accurate name of "guaranteed money" as it is money the player is guaranteed to receive for signing the contract as long as the player does not violate the contract.

When you hear that a player is making a lower amount than they are worth in a later year of their contract, most people are forgetting that the player is actually making more than that because of the guaranteed money up front that was only paid up front because of the salary cap manipulation but still is pro-rated when it comes to actual salaries.

That's why if a player retires or violates their contract, they have to pay back the remaining pro-rated amount of their already paid guaranteed (signing bonus) money to their team.

For example, if you pay a player $25 million signing bonus and $5 million per year for 5 years, that's a $10m/year salary, and not a $30 million year one salary and $5 million for years 2 through 5.

If you agree to cut 5 lawns cutting one per day for $100 each and the HOA pays you $300 up front, that does not mean that you got paid $300 for cutting one lawn on day one and only $50 per lawn per day after that.

What the NFL needs to do is change how they pay out guaranteed money to players.

Instead of paying players all guaranteed money upfront, it should be paid over the length of the contract.

That way, teams and players (along with the media and fans) have a true understanding of what players are earning each year. That also means that players would have more to risk if they hold out, so the only holdouts would likely be the players who would likely get a huge pay increase over their current contract, not just a moderate increase.

The other thing it would do is lead to shorter contracts as players and their agents would be less likely to sign 5+ year contracts that are rarely ever completed except when the team uses their franchise tags on players.

Instead, rookies would likely be 3-4 year contracts depending on their drafted position and most contract extensions would likely be 2-4 years each time.

Players like Bell, Gordon and Elliott are the tip of the ice berg when it comes to hold outs. A lot more players are going to see that holding out leads to a new higher paying contract with their current team or a trade and new contract with a new team.

In that scenario, I think most people would do the same.

I agree that in the new CBA, the owners should be very focused on resolving the holdout issues.

The rookie cap rules instantly resolved almost all rookie holdout issues.

My suggestions:
Ban teams from giving out new contracts during the season.

- There would be no point to hold out during the season if there is zero possibility of getting a new contract.

Require players to complete 4 years before they can sign a new contract.
- The current rules require 3 years to be completed.

If they're going to have the 5th year option for 1st round picks, then just sign all players to 5 year contracts.
- The 5th year option seems to have an emotional connotation for players similar to the Franchise Tag.
 

xwalker

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This is how it's done in the NBA as well. They don't run into these issues dealing with much bigger egos than those of the players holding out in the NFL.
The NBA also limits the max contracts that players can sign...
 

Reverend Conehead

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I would make it very simple. A contract is a contract is a contract. Every player must adhere to his. If he's able bodied and doesn't, he's kicked out of the league for life. If a player knows he'll get tossed for life for holding out, he won't do it. It may take about one example to make it stick, but it will. They're kicked out for life if they hold out while still under contract.
 

xwalker

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I think the best way to get the players to honor the contracts is make the owners honor the contracts as well. In baseball you can prematurely cut the player before the contract has finished.... but you still have to pay the player. Contracts are a 2 way street.

I do not see a lot of MLB baseball players holding out.

Fully guaranteed contracts in the NFL would be terrible for fans.

Teams could get into extremely non-competitive situations just due to a few failed players on fully guaranteed contracts.

Not all MLB contracts are fully guaranteed. Many are split contracts with different terms if the player is sent down to the minors.
 

JD_KaPow

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Before anyone chimes in thinking I am pro-player or pro-team, let me be clear in saying I really do not favor either one.

I do not blame players for trying to get the most money they can because their career could end at any point due to injury or decline.

I also do not blame owners who do not want to sign a player to a bad contract that haunts them and their team and salary cap for years.

As I have said many times in the past, I treat players who hold out like injured players. I focus on the players who are practicing and playing. That doesn't mean I don't want a hold out player to return, but I am also not going to dwell on their absence any more than I would if they were injured.

So, with that said ..

Back in the 1990s, the upfront money was referred to as "signing bonus" money when in reality it was just a way for teams to manipulate their salary caps in the coming years.

Over the last several years, the term "singing bonus" has been replaced with a more appropriate and accurate name of "guaranteed money" as it is money the player is guaranteed to receive for signing the contract as long as the player does not violate the contract.

When you hear that a player is making a lower amount than they are worth in a later year of their contract, most people are forgetting that the player is actually making more than that because of the guaranteed money up front that was only paid up front because of the salary cap manipulation but still is pro-rated when it comes to actual salaries.

That's why if a player retires or violates their contract, they have to pay back the remaining pro-rated amount of their already paid guaranteed (signing bonus) money to their team.

For example, if you pay a player $25 million signing bonus and $5 million per year for 5 years, that's a $10m/year salary, and not a $30 million year one salary and $5 million for years 2 through 5.

If you agree to cut 5 lawns cutting one per day for $100 each and the HOA pays you $300 up front, that does not mean that you got paid $300 for cutting one lawn on day one and only $50 per lawn per day after that.

What the NFL needs to do is change how they pay out guaranteed money to players.

Instead of paying players all guaranteed money upfront, it should be paid over the length of the contract.

That way, teams and players (along with the media and fans) have a true understanding of what players are earning each year. That also means that players would have more to risk if they hold out, so the only holdouts would likely be the players who would likely get a huge pay increase over their current contract, not just a moderate increase.

The other thing it would do is lead to shorter contracts as players and their agents would be less likely to sign 5+ year contracts that are rarely ever completed except when the team uses their franchise tags on players.

Instead, rookies would likely be 3-4 year contracts depending on their drafted position and most contract extensions would likely be 2-4 years each time.

Players like Bell, Gordon and Elliott are the tip of the ice berg when it comes to hold outs. A lot more players are going to see that holding out leads to a new higher paying contract with their current team or a trade and new contract with a new team.

In that scenario, I think most people would do the same.
I don't understand why players would agree to this. I also don't understand why it would lead to shorter contracts.
 

visionary

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I think the best way to get the players to honor the contracts is make the owners honor the contracts as well. In baseball you can prematurely cut the player before the contract has finished.... but you still have to pay the player. Contracts are a 2 way street.

I do not see a lot of MLB baseball players holding out.

:lmao2:
Please actually try to pay attention
Just please at least try
Just this once

Repeat after me: When an NFL team cuts a player, BOTH the player and that team are actually following the contract

If the NFL team were “not honoring the contract” the player would sue the team

Now, before you reply, please read this at least 10 more times until you understand it. Then you won’t have to reply
:thumbup:
 

JD_KaPow

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I would make it very simple. A contract is a contract is a contract. Every player must adhere to his. If he's able bodied and doesn't, he's kicked out of the league for life. If a player knows he'll get tossed for life for holding out, he won't do it. It may take about one example to make it stick, but it will. They're kicked out for life if they hold out while still under contract.
And what would you offer to the players in CBA negotiations for them to agree to such a situation?
 

JD_KaPow

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I agree that in the new CBA, the owners should be very focused on resolving the holdout issues.

The rookie cap rules instantly resolved almost all rookie holdout issues.

My suggestions:
Ban teams from giving out new contracts during the season.

- There would be no point to hold out during the season if there is zero possibility of getting a new contract.

Require players to complete 4 years before they can sign a new contract.
- The current rules require 3 years to be completed.

If they're going to have the 5th year option for 1st round picks, then just sign all players to 5 year contracts.
- The 5th year option seems to have an emotional connotation for players similar to the Franchise Tag.
What would you offer to the players in CBA negotiations to get them to agree to the first two of these?
 

JD_KaPow

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This will not happen because serious injuries are way more common in NFL than in baseball, basketball, etc.

Yes, serious injuries can happen in any sport (and do) and even out of sports, but the NFL is a violent contact-based sport which increases the odds of serious injury.
That risk could be factored into the value of the contracts. Getting it to work (and getting everyone to agree to it) would likely require some modifications to the cap structure and how dead money is calculated.
 

Outlaw Heroes

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You'd never get players and their agents to agree to this. It benefits them to get big upfront payments rather than having those payments spread out over the term of the contract. Money has time value. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar next year (which is worth more than a dollar the year after), because if you have it today you can invest it and earn a return on it.
 

JD_KaPow

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You'd never get players and their agents to agree to this. It benefits them to get big upfront payments rather than having those payments spread out over the term of the contract. Money has time value. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar next year (which is worth more than a dollar the year after), because if you have it today you can invest it and earn a return on it.
Well, you could always work the numbers so the net present value is the same. This would mean larger guarantees in nominal $ but the same in real $. I'm just struggling to understand how this changes anything in terms of team-player relationships and holdouts.
 

Reverend Conehead

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And what would you offer to the players in CBA negotiations for them to agree to such a situation?

Get rid of the bump and run. And if they strike, I'll use replacement players until they either come back or the replacement players are eventually the regular ones.
 
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