Can we Find the Defensive Coaching Equivalent of Kellen Moore?

[Verdict]

We are not getting a lot of pressure on opposing QBs. That’s just not acceptable.

 

[xwalker]

- With Jordan lewis, I think fans are insisting on him because he plays a feisty game and seems to have the best INT hands and ball hawk skills among the DBs.
Jordan seems like a give some- take some DB, he can make some breakup in coverage and make some INTs if positioned, but he can also be took in coverage and at times for big plays
and if schemed right and given a limited role, he can be effective. if he has to take a bigger role as to running with the speedsters on the flank, I think he can be exposed,

- I tend to think Lewis would work best in a cover 2 scheme where he can play off cushion and keep plays in front of him to jump INTs, he may not just be a fit in Richard’s man press
coverage scheme. And I’ll take Richard’s way per his Legion of Boom direction, he has a proven resume and credentials to me.

- What I’d be interested in Richard if he takes over the full DC is his preference for the DL coach – would he continue with Marinelli ,
Would management (who seems to adore Marinelli) insist that Richard keep Marinelli as DL coach?
and Kris has had success as a DC in Seattle, before Carroll and he had indifference in philosophy that led to his dismissal.

- I've read where Kris prefers to blitz, ..he likes man press to wear down WRs, and he has a bigger preference to gamble and get the opposition off field, more than Marinelli’s
bend don’t break tendencies (to which players complaint) The Byron jones conversion to CB maybe remain Richard's biggest stamp of approval thus far,

I still don't think we have all the necessary tools needed, we lack the disruptive horses in the middle, I have my doubts about Awuzie, Jones lack of INTs will ever make us limited,
and Heath has his tackling limitations and we have a lack of ball hawks on this team.

- My issue was more on management than even the coaches, as the failure to sign proven All pro FS stud Earl Thomas, who the team was obviously interested in trading for .
but yet when Earl became a FA, and no picks needed to get him, suddenly acquiring him wasn’t a high prioriety ? Lack of turnovers – Earl here would have immediately addressed that.

- Pair him with Xavier and let it rip. But nope that idea and golden opportunity goes outta the window.(sigh)

Lewis played trail technique in college and still likes to play that way.

Trail technique is the exact opposite of what Kris Richard prefers which is to stay over the WR.

The trail technique requires Safety help which would indeed work best with a 2-deep Safety look.

Lewis was able to play trail when he played as the Dime CB against Kamara. It is also more feasible to play trail as the Nickel (slot) CB; however, outside CBs in the KR scheme generally can't play trail.

Xavier Woods and Earl Thomas are both Free Safeties. Woods is not a good fit at Strong Safety. He could play some snaps there but I don't think they would play him at SS full time.

 

[shabazz]

Of course we can,.....we've found the Cowboys quarterback equivalent of Tom Brady

 

[CF74]

It might take another 20+ years...

 

[xwalker]

My peeves with Rod Marinelli:
- I do not like the revolving door and low regard for the 1 tech role, that seems to be continuing under Marinelli as he was insistence in hanging on to scrubs like nick hayden for years
I still see some here continue want “ fatties” to which I don’t want a fattie, just for the sake of having one, I want a legit, stud run stopper regards of what his size is .

- people like Broaddus can keep saying McClay was in on the pick of Taco, but there’s no question he was influenced by the preference of Marinelli, and desire for “Length “, and David Irving types.
That prompted the pass over of TJ Watt, and lead to selection of Taco – and while the talk of length and size, we were already committed to 237 lbs randy gregory as a 4-3 DE,
but yet we supposedly had issues with TJ Watt as a 4-3 end ? ( 15+ pounds bigger than Gregory)

- another thing I was so surprised about with the Taco pick , was Rod has always seemed to emphasized get off burst with his ends and tackles, and get off was the worst thing going for Taco per his game tapes.He looked slow and cumbersome and I had such a hard time trying to convince myself to like the pick.
Oddly, I had no such issue with Trysten Hill’s game tape but I most certainly did with Taco’s. Hill displayed the get off that Rod has previously been expressing,

- I think McClay may have uncharacteristically “ reached ‘ for Taco because he was concerned that there would not have been the DEs on his board by the time of
our 2nd round pick came around.

- So that’s where I do blame McClay for not sticking to his draft value board and picking the best available defensive player according to that board.
and while we are still scratching and searching for that key edge rusher (hopefully Quinn) TJ Watt is still collecting 13-15 sacks seasons in Steeler land.

A.Woods is 318 pounds. He can stop the run and hold up against double-teams.

Covington is a better backup 1-tech than any 4th DT they had last year.

I hear a lot a references to getting a bigger 1-tech but by picking Hill they are adding size at 3-tech (Hill 308, Crawford 285). They played Hill at 1-tech on several snaps in the Miami game with Woods out. Many of the past 3-techs or 3-tech projects were more DE/DT tweeners like Crawford that would never be an option at 1-tech. The fact that they're developing a "big" 3-tech is a good sign, IMO.


The issue with Watt was how they used him in college. He played a majority of his snaps in a rover LB roles where he looked like a 4-3 LB that blitzed about 80% of the time. He didn't really even play a traditional 3-4 OLB role. It made it hard to project him to the NFL, especially to project him to 4-3 DE.

Randy Gregory played as a 4-3 DE that his college team actually had more focused on stopping the run than rushing the passer. Gregory had an uncanny ability at his size to get under the pads of OLinemen that outweighed him by a large margin and bull-rush them back into the QB. He put OT Flowers (330 pounds) on skates in college. I think Gregory was over 260 when he played last season.

I'm not certain they would have picked Watt if they didn't pick Taco. They actually had Awuzie rated as a 1st round pick and Stephen Jones implied they considered drafting Awuzie with that pick but there were several CBs they like in the 2nd round and thought the would get a good CB if they waited but would not get a good pass rusher if they waited.

Obviously in retrospect with what we've seen from Watt, even if the had to just use him as a pass rush specialist on 3rd downs, that would be better than having to cut Taco; however, Taco didn't fail because of physical reasons. We don't really know how much physical ability he has because his attitude (poor mental-makeup) sabotaged his chances to succeed.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

In fairness, we've played a truly terrible offensive team and two really mediocre to below average offensive teams. So I am not sure there is a ton of value in that stat at this point. We'll know more after the next 2 games, especially the Packers game.

But if the Cowboys defense is bad wouldn’t even bad teams go off on them?

 

[Lutonio]

They'll probably just give it to Richard because HE YELLS A LOT.

 

[Verdict]

A.Woods is 318 pounds. He can stop the run and hold up against double-teams.

Covington is a better backup 1-tech than any 4th DT they had last year.

I hear a lot a references to getting a bigger 1-tech but by picking Hill they are adding size at 3-tech (Hill 308, Crawford 285). They played Hill at 1-tech on several snaps in the Miami game with Woods out. Many of the past 3-techs or 3-tech projects were more DE/DT tweeners like Crawford that would never be an option at 1-tech. The fact that they're developing a "big" 3-tech is a good sign, IMO.


The issue with Watt was how they used him in college. He played a majority of his snaps in a rover LB roles where he looked like a 4-3 LB that blitzed about 80% of the time. He didn't really even play a traditional 3-4 OLB role. It made it hard to project him to the NFL, especially to project him to 4-3 DE.

Randy Gregory played as a 4-3 DE that his college team actually had more focused on stopping the run than rushing the passer. Gregory had an uncanny ability at his size to get under the pads of OLinemen that outweighed him by a large margin and bull-rush them back into the QB. He put OT Flowers (330 pounds) on skates in college. I think Gregory was over 260 when he played last season.

I'm not certain they would have picked Watt if they didn't pick Taco. They actually had Awuzie rated as a 1st round pick and Stephen Jones implied they considered drafting Awuzie with that pick but there were several CBs they like in the 2nd round and thought the would get a good CB if they waited but would not get a good pass rusher if they waited.

Obviously in retrospect with what we've seen from Watt, even if the had to just use him as a pass rush specialist on 3rd downs, that would be better than having to cut Taco; however, Taco didn't fail because of physical reasons. We don't really know how much physical ability he has because his attitude (poor mental-makeup) sabotaged his chances to succeed.

IDK X. Taco wasn’t very explosive or fast. It’s pretty hard to exclude that as a limiting factor.

 

[T-RO]

The Cowboys are currently 4 in points allowed.

The Cowboys were 6th in points allowed last season.


In 2017 Brown and Lewis both played around 800 snaps on defense.
Brown 2 INTs in 2017
Lewis 1 INT in 2017

In 2018 Lewis was the starting Nickel CB in 2 games and played Dime against Kamara in the Saints game.
Brown 1 INT in 2018
Lewis 1 INT in 2018

2018 snaps
Brown 812
Lewis 279

2019 snaps
Brown 178
Lewis 113

PFF scouting grades sure confirm what most of us fans see:

2018
Jourdan Lewis 78.1
Anthony Brown 64.1

2019
Jourdan Lewis 72.2
Anthony Brown 64.2

Richard is hung up on his arm length and height profile.

 

[T-RO]

The issue with Watt was how they used him in college. He played a majority of his snaps in a rover LB roles where he looked like a 4-3 LB that blitzed about 80% of the time. He didn't really even play a traditional 3-4 OLB role. It made it hard to project him to the NFL, especially to project him to 4-3 DE.

Randy Gregory played as a 4-3 DE that his college team actually had more focused on stopping the run than rushing the passer. Gregory had an uncanny ability at his size to get under the pads of OLinemen that outweighed him by a large margin and bull-rush them back into the QB. He put OT Flowers (330 pounds) on skates in college. I think Gregory was over 260 when he played last season.

I was a huge advocate of drafting Watt on this forum leading up to draft. He was very productive despite being new to playing position. He had fabulous motor, insane combine marks. He looked a lot like his brother.

And he's become a lot like his brother. We've had no problem with drafting or trading for somewhat undersized D-ends.

 

[xwalker]

2018 snaps
Brown 812
Lewis 279

2019 snaps
Brown 178
Lewis 113

PFF scouting grades sure confirm what most of us fans see:

2018
Jourdan Lewis 78.1
Anthony Brown 64.1

2019
Jourdan Lewis 72.2
Anthony Brown 64.2

Richard is hung up on his arm length and height profile.

You can't grade a CB based on played 20% of the snaps in a season that his teammate played.

Didn't we go over the nonsense that is PFF player grades already.

PFF can't possibly get accurate grades on 53,000 snaps within 24 hours.

Also PFF hires people with zero experience reviewing football game footage to "grade film". They don't even use the coaches film.

 

[T-RO]

You can't grade CB based on played 20% of the snaps in a season that his teammate played.

Didn't we go over the nonsense that is PFF player grades already.

PFF can't possibly get accurate grades on 53,000 snaps within 24 hours.

Also PFF hires people with zero experience reviewing football game footage to "grade film". They don't even use the coaches film.

We went over it. And you didn't learn from the schooling I gave you. You have zero idea what you are talking about on PFF. Spreading complete nonsense...or deliberate lies. You entrenched yourself in a silly opinion.

When Lewis does play he has often been the *best defender* on the field.

 

[xwalker]

Yes we went over it. But you have a hard time learning anything from the schooling I gave you. You have zero idea what you are talking about on PFF. Spreading complete nonsense...or deliberate lies. You entrenched yourself in a silly opinion.

When Lewis does play he has often been the *best defender* on the field.

You did not school anybody on anything.

There is no way PFF can get accurate grading from a bunch of people they hire with zero experience to "grade film".

They definitely can't grade Lewis at outside CB in the Kris Richard scheme when he has not played there.

People try to use PFF like the wimpy kid threatens the bully by saying his dad will beat up the bully's dad.

In football discussions the wimpy kid can't make his own valid argument to support his opinion and he turns to PFF like it's his daddy or big brother.

Unfortunately for wimpy kids PFF can't beat up anybody with their paint store salesman turned "film grader" staff.

PFF had Doug Free rated higher than Tyron at one point in time. Any Cowboys fan knows that Tyron in his worst ever game was better than Free in his best ever game.

I think you were one of the people posting that Lewis "shutdown" Kamara until I pointed out that Lewis only played 8 snaps in that game.

 

[xwalker]

2018 snaps
Brown 812
Lewis 279

2019 snaps
Brown 178
Lewis 113

PFF scouting grades sure confirm what most of us fans see:

2018
Jourdan Lewis 78.1
Anthony Brown 64.1

2019
Jourdan Lewis 72.2
Anthony Brown 64.2

Richard is hung up on his arm length and height profile.

You are including special teams snaps.

2018 defensive snaps:
Brown 690
Lewis 187

2019 (defense)
Brown 159
Lewis 75

 

[Floatyworm]

I'm not exactly sure we can find the next Kellen Moore, or what we think/ hope Kellen is. But I'm all for promoting Richard and bringing in a defensive line coach that values defensive tackles.

Richard is part of the problem. He teaches our dbs horrible techniques.

 

[quickccc]

A.Woods is 318 pounds. He can stop the run and hold up against double-teams.
- Human Log Woods “should “ be able to stop the run, create penetration vs run for tackles losses and occupy two blockers , that’s what the 1 tech role does, but he’s not always as consistent with it,
and I didn’t like the way he was so up and down in 2018, playing great at home games... but struggling on the road. that's why i suspect that he’s yet another one of these guys that seems
to be decent and serviceable that we’ve had come and go, but never one that is a constant difference maker.That changes the dynamics how teams cannot control and contain him vs run.
(in every game)
And we don’t have to draft 1 tech, 4-3 scheme guys in the 1st round, they generally never get drafted in the first. And we see run stuffers drafted in 1st round as projected 3-4 NT.
I don’t see what’s wrong with projecting these type guys at the least in the 4th mid rounds, but the bigger problem is Rod Marinelli does not value and have high regards for exclusive run stuffers..

Covington is a better backup 1-tech than any 4th DT they had last year.
- And he’s a guy that I’m observing to see if he can succeed and be more consistent than Woods, though I see Covington's listed weight as only 305, his bulky frame seems far wider than that.
But I wonder if he could end be a pleasant surprised than what many expect.

I hear a lot a references to getting a bigger 1-tech but by picking Hill they are adding size at 3-tech (Hill 308, Crawford 285). They played Hill at 1-tech on several snaps in the Miami game with Woods out. Many of the past 3-techs or 3-tech projects were more DE/DT tweeners like Crawford that would never be an option at 1-tech. The fact that they're developing a "big" 3-tech is a good sign, IMO.
- I‘m not sure I understand why you’re using Crawford as a comparison example to Hill’s weight , when Tyrone is even not the primary starter at 3 tech role ,, that guy is Maliek Collins, who is listed as 310 pounds,.when you a rotation backup. And the game day active numbers are already slim pickings, you should have to learn how to contribute at both DT spots., even though it’s clear they will be better at one role better than the other,. We need the bodies.
Just as Maliek once had to fill in at the 1 tech because of a rash of injuries and the lack of depth (Stephen Paea sudden retiring, etc.)

The issue with Watt was how they used him in college. He played a majority of his snaps in a rover LB roles where he looked like a 4-3 LB that blitzed about 80% of the time. He didn't really even play a traditional 3-4 OLB role. It made it hard to project him to the NFL, especially to project him to 4-3 DE.

Randy Gregory played as a 4-3 DE that his college team actually had more focused on stopping the run than rushing the passer. Gregory had an uncanny ability at his size to get under the pads of OLinemen that outweighed him by a large margin and bull-rush them back into the QB. He put OT Flowers (330 pounds) on skates in college. I think Gregory was over 260 when he played last season
- Lets be honest, if you're seeing 237 lb DE prospect, that normally projects to 3-4 OLB, but apparently Gregory's edge skills was so adept and unique that they couldn't pass him over and was determined to have him, even if that meant transitioning him as a 4-3 DE.
The NFL guys have game film tape on these players, they work him out with the position coaches in pre-draft workouts and 30 day-visits, they get chances to see them up close personally,
they should know the differences between how their college coaches choose to use them and how they will be used/projected at the NFL level., and per their own scheme.
And i hope no one can throws me the better get off excuse either,.. because Taco’s tape and get off was as slow off the edge as frozen cold syrup.

Frankly as I’ve said before, If Rod can project a 237 lb Gregory to be a 4-3 DE the instant he was drafted by the Cowboys, then Rod should have been able to project a 15 pound heavier, 252 pound TJ Watt to be 4-3 DE

I'm not certain they would have picked Watt if they didn't pick Taco. They actually had Awuzie rated as a 1st round pick and Stephen Jones implied they considered drafting Awuzie with that pick but there were several CBs they like in the 2nd round and thought the would get a good CB if they waited but would not get a good pass rusher if they waited.
the CB in the 1st round discussion wasn’t Awuzie in accordance reports of the Cowboys value board, that CB reportedly was actually Kevin King of Washiington (as reported by sources at draft time) who went eventually picked by GB Packers very early in the 2nd round.


Obviously in retrospect with what we've seen from Watt, even if the had to just use him as a pass rush specialist on 3rd downs, that would be better than having to cut Taco; however, Taco didn't fail because of physical reasons. We don't really know how much physical ability he has because his attitude (poor mental-makeup) sabotaged his chances to succeed.

 

[T-RO]

There is no way PFF can get accurate grading from a bunch of people they hire with zero experience to "grade film".

They hire former coaches, players and scouts. You clearly don't have the first clue about their hiring process.

 

[quickccc]

Lewis played trail technique in college and still likes to play that way.

Trail technique is the exact opposite of what Kris Richard prefers which is to stay over the WR.

The trail technique requires Safety help which would indeed work best with a 2-deep Safety look.

Lewis was able to play trail when he played as the Dime CB against Kamara. It is also more feasible to play trail as the Nickel (slot) CB; however, outside CBs in the KR scheme generally can't play trail.

Xavier Woods and Earl Thomas are both Free Safeties. Woods is not a good fit at Strong Safety. He could play some snaps there but I don't think they would play him at SS full time.

the point that the Cowboys were just a hairline away from trading for Earl Thomas, may have been an indication that the Cowboys were going to try to see if they could make that
duo of Thomas/Xavier work, and since the Cowboys given the impression that they see the safeties as interchangeable rather than FS vs SS prototype, requiring both safeties to be able to play in the box, or single high.

I could see what you mean in that Xavier has to be the smallest "listed ' 200 pounds I have ever seen in an NFL safety and physically I dunno about the physical pounding he could take with that frame in constant support, but the bigger picture is getting two of their best safeties on the field starting at the same time. ( if they had acquired Earl Thomas)

 

[buybuydandavis]

Rod Marinelli has enjoyed an illustrious career. Reality? He's old and due for retirement. Coach Richard has done some nice work with the DBs, though I am beyond frustrated with his stubborn insistence on Brown over Jourdan Lewis...and the lack of secondary turnovers.

Now look...this coaching duo could prove me wrong in the balance of the season. This post has nothing to do with changes within the next 13 weeks. We may be Super Bowl bound. We might win it all. If that happens...make Richard DC gawd.

If not...Could be time for changes. A new defensive DC...An innovator. Some real changes. What would a defensive equivalent of Kellen Moore look like? I don't think such a guy is inside the organization.

Jerry might ought to give $10 mil for the Bears, Bills, or Ravens DC. That money aint' capped.

We may already have the defensive version of Moore: Sean Lee.

Lee has only taken 22% of defensive snaps. AFAIK he's healthy. Like Moore last year, they may be easing him into coaching.

 

[buybuydandavis]

The DL play is holding this team back right now. Tank is under performing, but between Tank and Quinn we should be above average at DE. Our DT play is the elephant in the room. Marinelli needs to be put out to pasture.

Covington is leading the dline in tackles right now with 5.

Maliek only has 2, while getting 72% of the snaps. I really expected better of him this year, particularly after all the hype in preseason.