All-22 of Flag Being Thrown on 2nd Tripping Call

[Runwildboys]

I don't think he was waiting to see that it was an impact play before throwing it (I believe that's what you are suggesting)... but almost as bad, it kinda looks once he saw the defender go to the ground, THEN he determined that it must have been tripping after all.

That was my take as well. I'm not sure he was even looking directly at them. He seemed to decide that it must have been tripping, or at least that he could get away with calling it that way.

 

[CWR]

There is nothing wrong with that.

If the play goes incomplete, don't throw the flag as it slows the game down. The Pats would have declined the penalty anyway if it was incomplete to get to 4th down.

I expect refs get some direction to do that to keep the game flowing and more watchable.

Fair enough, but why do they so often call penalties that are clearly going to be declined?

They need to simply concentrate at making the correct call, because they are struggling at the most fundamental part of their jobs.

I see your point though old buddy. Im clearly being hypercritical of these officials, but can you blame me?

 

[gimmesix]

I don't think he was waiting to see that it was an impact play before throwing it (I believe that's what you are suggesting)... but almost as bad, it kinda looks once he saw the defender go to the ground, THEN he determined that it must have been tripping after all.

That's what it looks like to me. It looks like his attention is on the line the whole time and after the defender falls down, having seen Frederick raise his leg, he assumes it's a trip. Terrible job by the official, but I don't think it was based on the success of the play.

 

[percyhoward]

I don't mind a ref keeping the game flowing..

To me, this explanation makes very little sense.

432 penalties have been declined so far this year. If Zeke doesn't get the first down, it becomes #433.

 

[DallasEast]

Watch this in real time. The timing is off, like the umpire is a couple of beats slow to react.

Note how he doesn't reach for the flag until he sees #70 Adam Butler give Zeke a free release at the line of scrimmage, leaving Zeke uncovered.

Thanks for posting. Watching the play/replay on television rarely gives you the official's angle. I 'see' each officials viewpoint in my mind knowing where they are positioned on the field.

This is even more sad than before. I already knew the referee did not have anyone obstructing his view but actually seeing what he did not see feels worse.

 

[CWR]

See what I mean @OmerV about CONSPIRACY!?

Rile 'em up and then step back like "Oh heaven's no." LOL.

What is your honest take on those calls? 160+ games and only 2 of them called total, prior to the 2 erroneous ones against us. Why do you think the calls were made?

 

[RodeoJake]

The vast majority of these guys aren't going to sacrifice a great gig to manipulate the outcome of a game.

They know every play will be scrutinized.

I could see a case here where (just speculating) someone like Belichick tells them before game to keep an eye on tripping . Refs think "he watches a hell of a lot more tape than we do, so probably something to it"

Now they're all looking for it. One gets called.

Now this poor schlub in the video is not just looking for it, but has a previous call fresh in his head that was already called in this game.

It's a rare penalty, so it stands out even more. Now he's wondering if the Cowboys do actually have a habit of tripping ... and starts wondering how many he may have missed.

So he catches Frederick's leg go a little high but it didn't seem like a trip. However when the defender hits the ground he thinks maybe it was so he throws the flag .

This was my thought. Belichick noticed a tendency with our OL and put a bug in the ref's head. They were both horrible calls, but caused by a head coach with clout.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well, I'm no fan of Mickey but, I think I kinda agree with him on this one. Analytics are fine and they definitely have their place but I am not a believer in the idea of using Analytics real time. Analytics, IMO, are best served when you look at them and use them to put together a game plan. Use them to prepair for a team. Understand the info and coach the players to be prepaired. "Analytics say that this team does x when faced with this situation, this percentage of the time so be ready to respond with X, when you see this on the field." That, to me, is the best use for them.

During the game, it's about real time changes and adjustments that every team, every coaching staff should be making. Our problem is that we don't do this well enough, if you ask me, but using analytics during the game is not the answer IMO. All that does is create tendencies. I mean, teams use analytics, not only to figure out what other teams are doing. They use them to make self assesments of what they, themselves are doing. Get too dependent on this kind of stuff and you create tendency, which is a killer in our game.

The NFL is and always has been about balance. You strive to find a balance within your own team that allows for peak efficiency, while at the same time, creating imbalance with your opponent. You want them working under that handy cap. Any time you create a tendency, it can be exploited and that's not a good thing. During the game, teams change, based on whatever you are doing on the other side of the ball. Change is dictated by your opponents actions or failures to react. I don't think tendencies or analytics serve you well there because what you are trying to create is a situation that is the exact opposite of what analytics are designed to do. I think Garrett and Mickey are right on that one.

JMO

 

[AbeBeta]

Fair enough, but why do they so often call penalties that are clearly going to be declined?

They need to simply concentrate at making the correct call, because they are struggling at the most fundamental part of their jobs.

I see your point though old buddy. Im clearly being hypercritical of these officials, but can you blame me?

Not likely that they can make that determination in many bang bang situations so the default it to throw it

 

[Soth]

What is your honest take on those calls? 160+ games and only 2 of them called total, prior to the 2 erroneous ones against us. Why do you think the calls were made?

Lol Why do you even bother asking him? I can tell you what he will say every single time: Every call against the cowboys is correct. Every poster that questions any call is a crazy person that believes in conspiracies. Refs are perfect against the cowboys, they have zero bias and call all games fairly.

 

[CWR]

Lol Why do you even bother asking him? I can tell you what he will say every single time: Every call against the cowboys is correct. Every poster that questions any call is a crazy person that believes in conspiracies. Refs are perfect against the cowboys, they have zero bias and call all games fairly.

If hes dug in, Id like him to explain why. I realize there's a good chance Ill be disappointed in his answer, but maybe Ill feel enlightened. You never know. Lol

 

[percyhoward]

Not likely that they can make that determination in many bang bang situations so the default it to throw it

The default has to be to throw it. If he doesn't throw the flag based on the outcome of Dallas coming up short, that makes it 4th & 1, and he'd be robbing Belichick of the right to accept a penalty that would make it 3rd & 11.

 

[CWR]

Not likely that they can make that determination in many bang bang situations so the default it to throw it

Meh, I doubt the majority of the 432 declined penalties this season are dramatically more bang bang than this one.

 

[MarcusRock]

What is your honest take on those calls? 160+ games and only 2 of them called total, prior to the 2 erroneous ones against us. Why do you think the calls were made?

The calls were clearly wrong. No one can dispute that. Officials are under scrutiny more than ever and we're seeing just how impossible it is to call a clean game. What I object to is a bee line straight to CONSPIRACY! which is what's thrown around even when calls are correct. Bungled calls happen to ALL TEAMS and fans looking for an excuse to whine (or have a defense against a rival fan making fun) go straight for the reality-bending failsafe. It's just dumb and kindergarten logic. If the league really wanted to enact game-fixing, no message board sleuth would detect it, I can tell you that.

 

[CWR]

The calls were clearly wrong. No one can dispute that. Officials are under scrutiny more than ever and we're seeing just how impossible it is to call a clean game. What I object to is a bee line straight to CONSPIRACY! which is what's thrown around even when calls are correct. Bungled calls happen to ALL TEAMS and fans looking for an excuse to whine (or have a defense against a rival fan making fun) go straight for the reality-bending failsafe. It's just dumb and kindergarten logic. If the league really wanted to enact game-fixing, no message board sleuth would detect it, I can tell you that.

The odds are its not fixed, but I dont think its so improbable I can justify a strong stance against it. Maybe not even so much fixed so to speak, but influenced by direction. Which has happened before in professional sports. It would be naive to dismiss it considering history and completely unexplainable calls.

 

[Clove]

The vast majority of these guys aren't going to sacrifice a great gig to manipulate the outcome of a game.

They know every play will be scrutinized.

I could see a case here where (just speculating) someone like Belichick tells them before game to keep an eye on tripping . Refs think "he watches a hell of a lot more tape than we do, so probably something to it"

Now they're all looking for it. One gets called.

Now this poor schlub in the video is not just looking for it, but has a previous call fresh in his head that was already called in this game.

It's a rare penalty, so it stands out even more. Now he's wondering if the Cowboys do actually have a habit of tripping ... and starts wondering how many he may have missed.

So he catches Frederick's leg go a little high but it didn't seem like a trip. However when the defender hits the ground he thinks maybe it was so he throws the flag .

He couldn’t call both illegal penalties in the first quarter? He had to call em when we were driving to beat NE? I call BS

 

[Creeper]

First, that ref was in no position to see that Frederick's leg never made contact with the rushing Patriots player. He reacted to the guy going to the ground which happens too often in the NFL. So many times they call holding or PI because a guy falls. Remember the Packers game and the call on Heath? The TE tripped over the hash mark and Heath got a penalty.

But take a closer look at the Patriots alignment on that play. They had a LB over Collins, another LB over Martin and a 3rd LB off the LOS over center. Then they have a DT over Williams and a DE over Smith. Why throw the ball when they could have run to the left for at least 5 or 6 yards, maybe a lot more? They had 3 timeouts at that point. Was that Dak's call or did that come from the bench. Dak should have kept the ball and run it between Collins and Martin or handed it off to Zeke to do the same thing. I get it they got the first down if not for the bogus call by the ref but still. There were more yards to be had running to the right than throwing a 2 yard pass.

 

[MarcusRock]

The odds are its not fixed, but I dont think its so improbable I can justify a strong stance against it. Maybe not even so much fixed so to speak, but influenced by direction. Which has happened before in professional sports. It would be naive to dismiss it considering history and completely unexplainable calls.

Influenced by direction for what purpose? People can't even get that straight. The popular CONSPIRACY! is that calls are made to keep games close. Wouldn't calls favor us in this case? Why New Orleans last year? Why Detroit several times? All people do is grasp at the wind but at the same time a CONSPIRACY! serves to give an excuse for a loss to help defend against an unacceptable result. Seeing as things like that are actually supported by psychological research, that is far more likely the "strong stance."

Before big games you even get the pre-whine ref threads. Only happens befybig games though. Why? It's to lessen disappointment for a feared loss and in a case where there is a controversial call, they can claim they were right (never happnens around here) plus have a "get off the hook" excuse for rival fans getting on them about the loss. I mean it's like clockwork. All it is is fear and emotion clouding judgement.

 

[Playmaker3128]

Its actually pretty simple.

Belliecheck and co prob warned the refs of "tripping" they saw before the game.

The refs know bellicheck has alot of pull, and are scared of him. So they basically indirectly do what he says.

 

[OmerV]

I don't think he was waiting to see that it was an impact play before throwing it (I believe that's what you are suggesting)... but almost as bad, it kinda looks once he saw the defender go to the ground, THEN he determined that it must have been tripping after all.

I agree. I believe he went on what he assumed must have happened rather than what he actually saw.