Audio: Mickey and Shan got into it on the radio today

[yimyammer]

There’s a argument for that.

oh trust The least of my concern with Garrett is him using analytics. I think it’s overrated to use. It can be good in some instances but look at Doug Peterson if you want to see bad use of analytics. He does it week in and out.

There was a game recently where Peterson went for 2 after scoring a TD but it failed so the score was like 17-9 after the miss and it made no sense to me

I guess this explains why unless someone else can chime in with an answer

 

[HungryLion]

Yeah, that is asinine. Glad I didn't do that. I brought up the coin flip in response to you saying it was, "nonsense," to say they're not predictive.

I don't get why you seemingly understand that the past doesn't predict the future in that sense, but then think it does when it comes to football.



If you can't tell, I root for the 40 in the 60/40. It's more rewarding when you beat the odds.

And then I subsequently showed you why the coin flip example you just used, is not equal to using probabilities to make decisions on a football field. Since coaches can actually alter the probability of winning with their decisions. Meanwhile, people can’t alter the probability of landing on heads or tails.

but I noticed you ignored that part of my post because it points to your opinion being foolish.

 

[Haimerej]

Actually I have. Coaches like Belichek and Harbaugh and Pederson believe the numbers have merit. You know, all coaches who win superbowls. Unlike our current coach.

That is far more evidence of their usefulness than anything you’ve stated so far.

Lol. Belichick was asked how much he relies on analytics back in September-

"Less than zero," Belichick said Friday morning."

He goes on-

"I don't really care what happened in 1973 and what those teams did or didn't do. I don't really think that matters in this game -- or '83 or '90, pick out whatever you want."

Belichick then smiled and said, "It's not really my thing. And I like math, too, by the way."

Also, Harbaugh's analytics didn't do much good from 2015-2017. Interesting that they're suddenly great now that he has an MVP caliber QB. How are analytics serving Pedersen this year?

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Lol. Belichick was asked how much he relies on analytics back in September-

"Less than zero," Belichick said Friday morning."

He goes on-

"I don't really care what happened in 1973 and what those teams did or didn't do. I don't really think that matters in this game -- or '83 or '90, pick out whatever you want."

Belichick then smiled and said, "It's not really my thing. And I like math, too, by the way."

Also, Harbaugh's analytics didn't do much good from 2015-2017. Interesting that they're suddenly great now that he has an MVP caliber QB. How are analytics serving Pedersen this year?

How’d they serve him (Pedersen) when he won the Super Bowl?

 

[Haimerej]

They don’t “foretell” the future.

So you do get it.

They do in fact, help You predict the future, based on the past.

Wait... I guess you don't.

That is valuable.

If you believe it.

What do you think meteorologists do? Do they just pull out a crystal ball and “foretell” the weather.

No, they generate models based on historical and present atmospheric data to predict the most likely outcome with the weather.

Weather is more predictable than people, though.

 

[HungryLion]

Yeah, that is asinine. Glad I didn't do that. I brought up the coin flip in response to you saying it was, "nonsense," to say they're not predictive.

I don't get why you seemingly understand that the past doesn't predict the future in that sense, but then think it does when it comes to football.



If you can't tell, I root for the 40 in the 60/40. It's more rewarding when you beat the odds.

Probability- The chance that something will happen. How likely it is that some event will occur.

Sometimes we can measure a probability with a number like "10% chance", or we can use words such as impossible, unlikely, possible, even chance, likely and certain.

Example: "It is unlikely to rain tomorrow".

As a number, probability is from 0 (impossible) to 1 (certain).


Also: the extent to which an event is likely to occur, measured by the ratio of the favorable cases to the whole number of cases possible.



So, being predictive is literally in the definition of probability.

Which means, your argument that probabilities aren’t predictive, is absolute bullcrap.

 

[Haimerej]

How’d they serve him (Pedersen) when he won the Super Bowl?

Not as well as Nick Foles.

 

[HungryLion]

Lol. Belichick was asked how much he relies on analytics back in September-

"Less than zero," Belichick said Friday morning."

He goes on-

"I don't really care what happened in 1973 and what those teams did or didn't do. I don't really think that matters in this game -- or '83 or '90, pick out whatever you want."

Belichick then smiled and said, "It's not really my thing. And I like math, too, by the way."

Also, Harbaugh's analytics didn't do much good from 2015-2017. Interesting that they're suddenly great now that he has an MVP caliber QB. How are analytics serving Pedersen this year?

Belichek is known to lie to the media. There are former patriot players and members of the organization that have said the patriots have an advanced analytics department and use them regularly.

Belichek not wanting to tip his hand to the media doesn’t mean he doesn’t use them.

Likewise, Harbaugh having some losing seasons, doesn’t mean the analytics and probabilities don’t help. I have never argued that using the analytic is the end all be all and guarantees wins or losses.

I have only argued that they are a useful tool that coaches should take advantage of.

you’re now trying to make
It that they have to be a guaranteed thing. Which is just you twisting the argument because nobody is arguing they are guaranteed to always work.

 

[Haimerej]

Probability- The chance that something will happen. How likely it is that some event will occur.

Sometimes we can measure a probability with a number like "10% chance", or we can use words such as impossible, unlikely, possible, even chance, likely and certain.

Example: "It is unlikely to rain tomorrow".

As a number, probability is from 0 (impossible) to 1 (certain).


Also: the extent to which an event is likely to occur, measured by the ratio of the favorable cases to the whole number of cases possible.



So, being predictive is literally in the definition of probability.

Which means, your argument that probabilities aren’t predictive, is absolute bullcrap.

When did I say probabilities aren't predictive? Go ahead and quote me.

 

[HungryLion]

So you do get it.



Wait... I guess you don't.



If you believe it.



Weather is more predictable than people, though.

Belief has nothing to do with it.

And you don’t get it. You are far too close minded and clearly have no interest in taking in information to form your opinion on this.

Hey, just like Garret is too close minded to take analytics into his opinion forming.

imagine that.

 

[Haimerej]

Belichek is known to lie to the media. There are former patriot players and members of the organization that have said the patriots have an advanced analytics department and use them regularly.

Belichek not wanting to tip his hand to the media doesn’t mean he doesn’t use them.

Lol "He's lying!!!!"

Likewise, Harbaugh having some losing seasons, doesn’t mean the analytics and probabilities don’t help. I have never argued that using the analytic is the end all be all and guarantees wins or losses.

I have only argued that they are a useful tool that coaches should take advantage of.

you’re now trying to make
It that they have to be a guaranteed thing. Which is just you twisting the argument because nobody is arguing they are guaranteed to always work.

I didn't say they have to be guaranteed. I'm saying the fact they aren't makes them trivial.

 

[HungryLion]

408Cowboy said: ↑
If you can't see how using data that gives you proven probabilities in different situations can be a benefit I can't help you. This is borderline willful ignorance on your part.


Then you said

They're just stats. They're not predictive.

So you either forgot saying that probabilities aren’t predictive, or you’re lying.

Either way this argument is over. Its going nowhere.

goodbye

 

[Haimerej]

Belief has nothing to do with it.

And you don’t get it. You are far too close minded and clearly have no interest in taking in information to form your opinion on this.

Hey, just like Garret is too close minded to take analytics into his opinion forming.

imagine that.

Lol. The last resort of the poor argument- namecalling.

 

[HungryLion]

Lol "He's lying!!!!"



I didn't say they have to be guaranteed. I'm saying the fact they aren't makes them trivial.

And I am saying that your opinion that they are trivial is asinine and close minded.

Best wishes to you in all your future endeavors.

 

[HungryLion]

Lol. The last resort of the poor argument- namecalling.

Calling you close minded isn’t name calling. The fact that you would play victim like that shows some weakness on your part.

 

[Haimerej]

408Cowboy said: ↑
If you can't see how using data that gives you proven probabilities in different situations can be a benefit I can't help you. This is borderline willful ignorance on your part.


Then you said





So you either forgot saying that probabilities aren’t predictive, or you’re lying.

Either way this argument is over. Its going nowhere.

goodbye

Nice try. I was asking about the value of football analytics. He said they're probabilities, I said they're stats and used the fact they aren't predictive to contrast the idea that they're actually probabilities.

 

[HungryLion]

Nice try. I was asking about the value of football analytics. He said they're probabilities, I said they're stats and used the fact they aren't predictive to contrast the idea that they're actually probabilities.

You’re just twisting words. You’ve been arguing all through this thread that they’re just stats that offer no predictive value. When the reality is they are stats that are analyzed to generate probabilities which provide predictive value. So they are not just stats.

The combination of your word twisting, lying and playing the victim over being called “closed minded” makes having a discussion with you pointless.

 

[Haimerej]

And I am saying that your opinion that they are trivial is asinine and close minded.

Best wishes to you in all your future endeavors.

Funny. Hear I am discussing this with you over several pages and days, considering your arguments and giving honest replies, yet I'm close minded. You seem indoctrinated.

 

[HungryLion]

Nice try. I was asking about the value of football analytics. He said they're probabilities, I said they're stats and used the fact they aren't predictive to contrast the idea that they're actually probabilities.

And for the last time. The entire argument in the first
Place is that a Coach should want as much information as possible to make informed decisions. It’s laughable anyone would disagree with that.

 

[HungryLion]

Funny. Hear I am discussing this with you over several pages and days, considering your arguments and giving honest replies, yet I'm close minded. You seem indoctrinated.

And I am giving you honest replies. You come across
As close minded and have zero interest in actually trying to derive any value from the information that is
Being presented. Therefore, I feel like you’re close
Minded to the topic and don’t think it’s worthwhile debating it with you anymore.

But me saying you’re close minded to the ideas I’m
Presenting makes me seem “indoctrinated”? Indoctrinated to what or whom?


If the argument is I’m indoctrinated to wanting to take all information into account for decision making. Then yes. Guilty as charged. I am
Indoctrinated to wanting to make informed decisions.