Unpopular opinion: I don't think Zeke is having a bad year

[CalPolyTechnique]

To think that salary is not part of the context of judging a player’s contribution or production is silly.

If Zeke was a 4th round player getting paid $630K instead of being the 4th overall player getting paid $6.3M a year it would put his production in a different light.

Compensation sets expectation.

 

[superonyx]

It's really not thinking beyond the surface. It's simply trying to muddy the waters to offer up a defense of a player who, frankly, has not had a great year. As I said, it often comes from those who bristle at any real fair criticism of one of the team's "star" players.

Further, as much as you want to try to separate what he's paid from what he does on the field, it doesn't work that way. He got the largest contract in NFL history for a TB because the team believes, expects and needs him to put out great seasons as often as he can.

That's why they paid him. If they just wanted decent to good seasons, they could have found that for far less money and used the saved money elsewhere. That's the type of thinking most NFL teams use when constructing a roster. What's the value placed on a position and production from a position? In this case, the Cowboys paid their TB elite money and they expect, more often than not, great results. They haven't gotten that consistently this year. You can excuse some of his play on OL issues. But as has been noted through a lot of analysis, Zeke himself isn't have a great year that has little to do with his OL. He shows little burst like he did as a rookie and seems lacking in ability to hit a big play now. That's not all the OLs fault.

And if people want to argue that it's too much to expect a TB to consistently deliver because that's the nature of the position, then guess what? You just proved why it was foolish to pay a TB a crap ton of money.

It has not been proven that its on Zeke. In fact its been shown by several video analysis that the difference on production is greatly attributed to his offensive line.

We pay 3 offensive linemen combined $41M just this year alone. Compare that to Zeke's 6.3M and tell me why you are obsessed with Zeke's salary again?
Oh yea I remember. We didnt draft Ramsey and you can't get over it.

Pinning the drop in production on the RB would be like blaming a CB for a team who couldnt get a pass rush on the QB. Any CB would eventually get beat.

Try to pretend its not surface thinking when it actually is.

 

[superonyx]

To think that salary is not part of the context of judging a player’s contribution or production is silly.

If Zeke was a 4th round player getting paid $630K instead of being the 4th overall player getting paid $6.3M a year it would put his production in a different light.

Compensation sets expectation.

Tyron Smith $15.5M
Martin $14M
Frederick $11m
Zeke $6.3m

Where is the threads on one of these guys?

The difference in our running game this season is mostly on the regression of this group.
But that doesnt play into the anti Zeke crowds agendas. This or some people really don't get it.

 

[gimmesix]

So you would focus on Brandon Weeden. Got it.

Defenses were concerned with our running game, whether it was Randle or DMC that year. Randle just sucked.

I don't think you understand the difference in game-planning for a player who is the focus of the offense, who there is lots of lots of film on concerning his tendencies, habits, etc., and how the team uses him and planning to stop a seldom-used player who hasn't been that primary back.

Defenses funnel their defenders to the middle of the field because they know that's most likely based on Dallas' tendencies where the Cowboys are going to run Elliott. They keep extra players in the box on first down because they know based on tendencies that we are more likely to try to run than pass.

You've got a back in there you haven't seen much, he's a wild card, so you play the run more regular defensively and then you adjust if needed. No team needed to really adjust against Randle. He rushed for 87 yards (6.2 per carry) against Atlanta, but 37 of that came on one run.

 

[gimmesix]

Tyron Smith $15.5M
Martin $14M
Frederick $11m
Zeke $6.3m

Where is the threads on one of these guys?

The difference in our running game this season is mostly on the regression of this group.
But that doesnt play into the anti Zeke crowds agendas. This or some people really don't get it.

It's really a combination of a lot of factors. Some of it is on Elliott. Some of it is on the offensive line. Some of it is on play-calling. And some is on scheme.

Despite those things, he's still averaging 4.1 YPC, has rushed for over 1,000 yards and has 7 TDs. Numbers that could be better but aren't bad.

 

[starfan1]

People are over-reacting on everything since the team record is bad (if the cowboys where 9-4 right now literally nobody would be complaining about zeke).

Hell people are so mad about the record that there even crying about the freaking offensive line. The offensive line that's #1 in passing, #7 in running, and pressure/sack count is DOWN from last year........... (lol)

Fans can be stubborn sometimes

And stats can be misleading

 

[Sydla]

It's really a combination of a lot of factors. Some of it is on Elliott. Some of it is on the offensive line. Some of it is on play-calling. And some is on scheme.

Despite those things, he's still averaging 4.1 YPC, has rushed for over 1,000 yards and has 7 TDs. Numbers that could be better but aren't bad.

Of course it’s a combo of things..........

But super wants to make this about everyone else but Zeke.

 

[Sydla]

It has not been proven that its on Zeke. In fact its been shown by several video analysis that the difference on production is greatly attributed to his offensive line.

We pay 3 offensive linemen combined $41M just this year alone. Compare that to Zeke's 6.3M and tell me why you are obsessed with Zeke's salary again?
Oh yea I remember. We didnt draft Ramsey and you can't get over it.

Pinning the drop in production on the RB would be like blaming a CB for a team who couldnt get a pass rush on the QB. Any CB would eventually get beat.

Try to pretend its not surface thinking when it actually is.

The drop in production is on the TB as well, at least partially. It’s downright idiotic to argue otherwise. Sure the OL shares blame but you are basically absolving Zeke from any criticism here.

And I harp on Elliott’s pay because of my feelings on TBs in general. It’s dumb to pay them a lot of money because of wear and tear, injury, etc.

 

[aria]

He's definitely not having a "bad year" by any means.

Now, throw in two other variables..

Had he not held out and then slapped with a huge contract..would their be any noise about his game, personally?

Expectations ruin ones reality, they blind you and complicate perception.

He set the expectation by sitting out and demanding to be paid the highest at his position, not the fans. We’re not the blind ones, Jerry was.

 

[landryscorner]

I haven't watched many games this year (thank god) but I'm guessing opposing team game plans go like this.

1. Stop zeke
2. force dak to throw

beat cowboys.

 

[Aviano90]

I don't think you understand the difference in game-planning for a player who is the focus of the offense, who there is lots of lots of film on concerning his tendencies, habits, etc., and how the team uses him and planning to stop a seldom-used player who hasn't been that primary back.

Defenses funnel their defenders to the middle of the field because they know that's most likely based on Dallas' tendencies where the Cowboys are going to run Elliott. They keep extra players in the box on first down because they know based on tendencies that we are more likely to try to run than pass.

You've got a back in there you haven't seen much, he's a wild card, so you play the run more regular defensively and then you adjust if needed. No team needed to really adjust against Randle. He rushed for 87 yards (6.2 per carry) against Atlanta, but 37 of that came on one run.

We use the same game plan regardless of who is back there. There’s been years of complaints we are too predictable. Game plan against the Cowboys since 2014 — stop the run.

 

[blueblood70]

everyione keeps focusing on his YPG averages and its ridiculous..

this is the mighty Emiitt smiths career avg 4.2 hers his yearly averages a bit out of order but you get the point ONE, over 5 ,thats it , admit Zeke and ES are very much the same types of backs, they are better with volume and can handle the load, stay healthy..

ES was Not barry and Zeke will not be the elusive big chunk yard back as a few of his counterparts are..just like Emmitts not barry and guess what ES was the highest paid back for most of his career..look at these numbers people.. maybe it will enlighten you a bit..looks lie he had 3 seasons over 4.5 that it!!

Zeke had such a great first 3 years its hard to live up to that but his demise is not age and mileage , ite the offense, line, and play calling thats changed as well as getting behind so much..


2.8
3.5
3.7
3.8
3.9
3.9
4.0
4.1
4.1
4.2
4.2
4.3
4.6
4.7
5.3

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitEm00.htm
see for yourself...

sure EE is having a down year for him but its not bad even in the slightest..

 

[Sydla]

everyione keeps focusing on his YPG averages and its ridiculous..

this is the mighty Emiitt smiths career avg 4.2 hers his yearly averages a bit out of order but you get the point ONE, over 5 ,thats it , admit Zeke and ES are very much the same types of backs, they are better with volume and can handle the load, stay healthy..

ES was Not barry and Zeke will not be the elusive big chunk yard back as a few of his counterparts are..just like Emmitts not barry and guess what ES was the highest paid back for most of his career..look at these numbers people.. maybe it will enlighten you a bit..looks lie he had 3 seasons over 4.5 that it!!

Zeke had such a great first 3 years its hard to live up to that but his demise is not age and mileage , ite the offense, line, and play calling thats changed as well as getting behind so much..


2.8
3.5
3.7
3.8
3.9
3.9
4.0
4.1
4.1
4.2
4.2
4.3
4.6
4.7
5.3

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitEm00.htm
see for yourself...

sure EE is having a down year for him but its not bad even in the slightest..

It's laughable to just say that age or wear and tear aren't at play here, to any extent. Anyone who is honest with themselves would admit that Elliott doesn't look the same as he did his rookie year. He was quicker, more explosive then.

 

[Tussinman]

And stats can be misleading

Yes and No. Everyone's crying about the offensive lines demise do to the record stat (6-8) but reality is there at worst a fringe top 5 unit. Pressures and sacks are down from last year and offensively the cowboys as a unit aren't noticeable worst than the previous 2 seasons.

If the cowboys where 9-4 right now (easily attainable with better coaching/schemes on the same roster) literally nobody would be complaining about offense

 

[gjkoeppen]

I honestly think

1. Dak is improving as a pocket passer, and he's throwing more passes

2. This is Moore's first year as the OC

3. Dak's contract

In fact, part of this team's problem is that it abandons the run even when it IS working(Bills, Patriots game)

The patriots game Elliott got 21 carries and a long of 12 yards. Unfortunately when the Cowboys on 1st down in the 2nd half of games and have given Elliott the ball he just get 1 or 2 yards and being down then they have to try to move the ball by passing. The Bills game the lack of rushes for Elliott was for two reasons. First the defense couldn't make any stops which comes to the other reason which is the Cowboys were a couple TD's behind with a defense that was stopping the bills so the Cowboys could use the ground and pound time consuming series because they need to move the ball fast and score to try to catch the Bills.

Elliott has had FIVE subpar games of 60 yards or less and that's not what anyone would call having a good season.
.

 

[gimmesix]

Of course it’s a combo of things..........

But super wants to make this about everyone else but Zeke.

Elliott bears some blame as well. Even though most of the time he's fighting for what yardage he gets instead of losing yards, he's made some poor decisions on his cuts at times. That's one of the reasons seasons fluctuate some for backs, though. The decision to attack a different hole or make a different cut could have resulted in better runs. Zeke doesn't absolve himself and neither should we. His season could be better than what it is.

 

[gimmesix]

We use the same game plan regardless of who is back there. There’s been years of complaints we are too predictable. Game plan against the Cowboys since 2014 — stop the run.

The scheme is the same, but the plays you run differ based on personnel. With Elliott, teams prioritize studying what we run with him in the game. With Randle (an unknown as a starter), teams run their defense to counter the scheme, not the player. There's the difference.

They don't know until it is established whether the player is going to be used to pound the ball up the middle or if Dallas is going to try to get him on the outside edge more. They don't know until it is established if he's going to be more of a passing threat than a running threat. Since we just adopted a run-first mentality the previous year and then let our primary back go, they don't even know if we're going to continue with the run-first mentality.

Established players in an established scheme are much easier to game plan for. Teams settle into habits, knowing what a certain player likes to run and is successful running. They are not surprised by his cuts, his speed, etc., because they've seen it all before over and over.

 

[Aviano90]

The scheme is the same, but the plays you run differ based on personnel. With Elliott, teams prioritize studying what we run with him in the game. With Randle (an unknown as a starter), teams run their defense to counter the scheme, not the player. There's the difference.

They don't know until it is established whether the player is going to be used to pound the ball up the middle or if Dallas is going to try to get him on the outside edge more. They don't know until it is established if he's going to be more of a passing threat than a running threat. Since we just adopted a run-first mentality the previous year and then let our primary back go, they don't even know if we're going to continue with the run-first mentality.

Established players in an established scheme are much easier to game plan for. Teams settle into habits, knowing what a certain player likes to run and is successful running. They are not surprised by his cuts, his speed, etc., because they've seen it all before over and over.

You are going through a lot to come up with excuses for Elliott’s worst year. If all you say is true, why has he improved in 2018 and 2019 despite worse offensive line play when defenses have had even more tape to be even less surprised by his cuts and speed?

It’s really simple, he didn’t play particularly well in 2017. It was noticeable very early on he was slower than in 2016 and had put on weight. He wasn’t as explosive. It got better in 2018 but still not at that elite 2016 level.


And while you and I will continue to disagree, the majority of other people are realizing he isn’t the same back he was in 2016 and it’s not just everyone else’s fault but Zeke’s.

 

[superonyx]

everyione keeps focusing on his YPG averages and its ridiculous..

this is the mighty Emiitt smiths career avg 4.2 hers his yearly averages a bit out of order but you get the point ONE, over 5 ,thats it , admit Zeke and ES are very much the same types of backs, they are better with volume and can handle the load, stay healthy..

ES was Not barry and Zeke will not be the elusive big chunk yard back as a few of his counterparts are..just like Emmitts not barry and guess what ES was the highest paid back for most of his career..look at these numbers people.. maybe it will enlighten you a bit..looks lie he had 3 seasons over 4.5 that it!!

Zeke had such a great first 3 years its hard to live up to that but his demise is not age and mileage , ite the offense, line, and play calling thats changed as well as getting behind so much..


2.8
3.5
3.7
3.8
3.9
3.9
4.0
4.1
4.1
4.2
4.2
4.3
4.6
4.7
5.3

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitEm00.htm
see for yourself...

sure EE is having a down year for him but its not bad even in the slightest..

You are assuming some of these guys on this board are open to being enlightened. They are not. They have been presented all the facts many times.
Nothing you could do, say, show them would change a thing for them.

Instead of wanting to be enlightened they want to be right.
So they keep posting the same anti zeke nonsense day after day. Its the same group. Its not hard to identify them.

They have been trying to discredit Zeke since we selected him over Ramsey. They convinced themselves Zeke would never see another contract for the Cowboys.
When he became the highest paid RB it made their blood boil. How could they have been so wrong for so long? So they do what they are doing on this thread and many more like it.

 

[superonyx]

The patriots game Elliott got 21 carries and a long of 12 yards. Unfortunately when the Cowboys on 1st down in the 2nd half of games and have given Elliott the ball he just get 1 or 2 yards and being down then they have to try to move the ball by passing. The Bills game the lack of rushes for Elliott was for two reasons. First the defense couldn't make any stops which comes to the other reason which is the Cowboys were a couple TD's behind with a defense that was stopping the bills so the Cowboys could use the ground and pound time consuming series because they need to move the ball fast and score to try to catch the Bills.

Elliott has had FIVE subpar games of 60 yards or less and that's not what anyone would call having a good season.
.

The five subpar games of 60 or less are on the OL. The reality most of you don't want to accept is any game where a RB gains 2 or 3 ypc is a failing on the OL.

Look up Dalvin Cooks or McCaffery stats this year. Look at the games where they went 20 carries for 40 yards. Thats on the offense line, play calling and scheme not on the RB.

Any RB at the college level on up who ends up with less than 3 ypc is a back who's OL had their arses handed to them.
This is like blaming a QB for his QB rating in a game where he was sacked 8 times. It all starts with the OL. If they are sucking then the skill players dont have a chance.