News: Some details on the procedure LVE will have

[khiladi]

it is a technical term
No spin
The only people spinning or being spun are those who don’t know

Typically full recovery takes four months. This is not expected to be career threatening, and know several former Cowboys players underwent this procedure and continued their careers: Daryl Johnston, Rocket Ismail, Chad Hennings and Izell Reese to name a few.”

The whole issue is being presented like it’s minimal. None of these guys lasted after the surgery. Being on a roster and being able to play are completely different issues. None of them lasted..

 

[Rayman70]

“Vander Esch will have his surgery in a few weeks. The Cowboys had been hoping medically treating his cervical herniation of the disk between the fifth and sixth vertebrae would reduce the swelling. The most recent examination reveals no herniation reduction.

Vander Esch will now undergo an anterior cervical discectomy with fusion procedure. This entails removing the herniated disk and using bone from the hip to fuse into the space between the two vertebrae.

Typically full recovery takes four months. This is not expected to be career threatening, and know several former Cowboys players underwent this procedure and continued their careers: Daryl Johnston, Rocket Ismail, Chad Hennings and Izell Reese to name a few.”

Read the rest here: https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/merry-shots-of-lve-worst-fears-and-gifts

I have had the exact procedure done..the very same. Same c-spine level too. Its no guarantee ANYONE is the same afterwards. I have been disabled for years because my surgery was a very short term fix. It lasted about 2 years..then all hell broke loose. Numb areas all over my hands,shoulders, feet...muscle atrophy, weakness. The rehab will be key. Its no cake walk, I assure you. Bottom line, we better address that position in the offseason.

 

[Kaiser]

He's a middle linebacker repeatedly going head-to-head with NFL linemen, fullbacks, and running backs at full speed.

No, he isn't. He is a Will that spends at least half his snaps in coverage. This would be different if he was a DL, but he isn't.

 

[visionary]

The whole issue is being presented like it’s minimal. None of these guys lasted after the surgery. Being on a roster and being able to play are completely different issues. None of them lasted..

that is true but that was 20 years ago

medicine has advanced a lot

 

[Rayman70]

Wow. That’s a big surgery. I didn’t know he was having fusion done. He will be ok. But worse than I thought.

yup..its certainly more than just "a procedure." Anytime you have a spine issue/surgery...its a dicey thing. The rehab will be very key. I have a titanium plate in my neck at c5-6. I been in a world of hurt ever since honestly. Again, everyone responds differently and I wasn't an elite athlete...so maybe he will indeed be ok. But I certainly wouldn't assume he's gonna be the player he was, not by a long shot. He has a dicey road ahead of him to be honest.

 

[texbumthelife]

He's a middle linebacker repeatedly going head-to-head with NFL linemen, fullbacks, and running backs at full speed.

With a fused spine to protect a herniated disc that isn't healing.

Backs almost never fully heal.

Are you serious? He's probably an aggravation away from calling it a career.

In fact, it wouldn't shock me if he never plays again.

Maybe, at the very least, we could try and stay positive until next season. I know that's almost as foreign around here as a winning attitude, but it's worth a shot.

 

[links18]

"Minimally invasive" the ticker on NFLN has been saying? How can the team even claim this? A discectomy and fusion are about as far from minimally invasive as you can get.

Media spin to prevent the fan base from becoming even more pessimistic and disengaged?

 

[Kaiser]

The whole issue is being presented like it’s minimal. None of these guys lasted after the surgery. Being on a roster and being able to play are completely different issues. None of them lasted..

It's called minimal because the incision site is very small, probably a cm or so but I haven't seen it done or had it done. What Rocket did 20 years ago is irrelevant, medicine is a different world today than it was then. Basic knee surgery ended careers back then and today you see guys miss a game or two.

 

[Rayman70]

It's called minimal because the incision site is very small, probably a cm or so but I haven't seen it done or had it done. What Rocket did 20 years ago is irrelevant, medicine is a different world today than it was then. Basic knee surgery ended careers back then and today you see guys miss a game or two.

another good point. Mine was done about 20 years ago as well. Lets hope medical tech has vastly improved. I wish the kid well. Nothing is a given.

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

yup..its certainly more than just "a procedure." Anytime you have a spine issue/surgery...its a dicey thing. The rehab will be very key. I have a titanium plate in my neck at c5-6. I been in a world of hurt ever since honestly. Again, everyone responds differently and I wasn't an elite athlete...so maybe he will indeed be ok. But I certainly wouldn't assume he's gonna be the player he was, not by a long shot. He has a dicey road ahead of him to be honest.

I too have a titanium plate at that level in my spine, with multiple procedures and fusion. It's astounding that anyone could believe that neurosurgery could be "minor". I sure as hell don't believe what LVE is going to have done is minor. Continuing issues for him seems the most likely scenario, but I hope I'm wrong!

 

[khiladi]

that is true but that was 20 years ago

medicine has advanced a lot

Biomechanics hasn’t. There is plenty of literature today about the lack of effectiveness of the procedure and SHORT term outcomes are generally favorable, but that depends on how one defines outcomes. For LBs and football players it isn’t really favorable. The minimally invasive has no applicability to the biomechanics as related to the fushion itself. That has more to do with HEALING TIME.

No matter what, flexibility and range of motion becomes limited. Manning is probably the most relevant example, he got the same procedure if the disk being replaced by bone, the extent of replacement, not known and he lasted some time, but it all deteriorated rapidly and he wasn’t a LB. So if LVE is getting this one,

The new procedure, where they use an artificial disk, may be better. But that is new and there isn’t much information on it.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sp...es-cervical-spine-surgery-outcomes/100984612/

 

[Rayman70]

I too have a titanium plate at that level in my spine, with multiple procedures and fusion. It's astounding that anyone could believe that neurosurgery could be "minor". I sure as hell don't believe what LVE is going to have done is minor. Continuing issues for him seems the most likely scenario, but I hope I'm wrong!

exactly, well said. Do you also get the numbness and tingling, weakness..spasms? I sure do. Its one of my biggest regrets..looking back at the surgery. I wish I hadn't have done it. It changed my entire life. At the time, I really felt I didn't have much choice.

 

[visionary]

Biomechanics hasn’t. There is plenty of literature today about the lack of effectiveness of the procedure and SHORT term outcomes are generally favorable, but that depends on how one defines outcomes. For LBs and football players it isn’t really favorable. The minimally invasive has no applicability to the biomechanics as related to the fushion itself. That has more to do with HEALING TIME.

No matter what, flexibility and range of motion becomes limited. Manning is probably the most relevant example, he got the same procedure if the disk being replaced by bone, the extent of replacement, not known and he lasted some time, but it all deteriorated rapidly and he wasn’t a LB. So if LVE is getting this one,

The new procedure, where they use an artificial disk, may be better. But that is new and there isn’t much information on it.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sp...es-cervical-spine-surgery-outcomes/100984612/

gotta wait and hope for the best

 

[khiladi]

It's called minimal because the incision site is very small, probably a cm or so but I haven't seen it done or had it done. What Rocket did 20 years ago is irrelevant, medicine is a different world today than it was then. Basic knee surgery ended careers back then and today you see guys miss a game or two.

No, it absolutely is relevant, because minimally invasive relates more to healing time, not the actual replacement of the disk with bone. Physics doesn’t change and the biomechanics around the vertebrae are altered, losing flexibility and range of motion.

And the guys in the article didn’t last or even step in the field. They may have been on a roster, but they were done and had to retire.

 

[Fletch]

Oh, so his career isn't over and *shocker* the people playing doctor here should stick to picking scabs.

But I heard we wasted a 1st round pick on an injured player? Weeeird!

 

[khiladi]

exactly, well said. Do you also get the numbness and tingling, weakness..spasms? I sure do. Its one of my biggest regrets..looking back at the surgery. I wish I hadn't have done it. It changed my entire life. At the time, I really felt I didn't have much choice.

Sorry to hear. There is plenty of literature that question its effectiveness and you are probably a case study from this POV.

 

[Rayman70]

Biomechanics hasn’t. There is plenty of literature today about the lack of effectiveness of the procedure and SHORT term outcomes are generally favorable, but that depends on how one defines outcomes. For LBs and football players it isn’t really favorable. The minimally invasive has no applicability to the biomechanics as related to the fushion itself. That has more to do with HEALING TIME.

No matter what, flexibility and range of motion becomes limited. Manning is probably the most relevant example, he got the same procedure if the disk being replaced by bone, the extent of replacement, not known and he lasted some time, but it all deteriorated rapidly and he wasn’t a LB. So if LVE is getting this one,

The new procedure, where they use an artificial disk, may be better. But that is new and there isn’t much information on it.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sp...es-cervical-spine-surgery-outcomes/100984612/

well said. My range of motion was totally different in my neck afterwards. Driving is more challenging at times, for obvious reasons. I imagine as a linebacker, its pretty darn significant if your ability to turn your head the way you need to,is affected.

 

[Rayman70]

Sorry to hear. There is plenty of literature that question its effectiveness and you are probably a case study from this POV.

I bet your correct. I am basically relegated to being a house husband for the last 20 years lol...obviously it meant my spouse,kids had to vastly adjust our lives due to this. I only pray LVE isn't going to end up like me... a statistic. He's a darn good kid and player.

 

[khiladi]

well said. My range of motion was totally different in my neck afterwards. Driving is more challenging at times, for obvious reasons. I imagine as a linebacker, its pretty darn significant if your ability to turn your head the way you need to,is affected.

The new procedure in the link I provided speaks about not using bone, but an artificial disk to simulate the original disk and allow for better range of motion. Whether or not it is successful long term is yet to be seen, but it demonstrates that the issues are the very nature of the procedure of fusion. It’s basic biomechanics and physics. These aren’t altered with a ‘minimally invasive” procedure. That is normally about healing time, the smaller the incision the quicker the healing.

It’s better to retire and use proper biomechanics to prevent movements where your cervical vertebrae would pressure the disks more, leading to further deterioration.

 

[Kaiser]

No, it absolutely is relevant, because minimally invasive relates more to healing time, not the actual replacement of the disk with bone. Physics doesn’t change and the biomechanics around the vertebrae are altered, losing flexibility and range of motion.

And the guys in the article didn’t last or even step in the field. They may have been on a roster, but they were done and had to retire.

Reference post 29 of this thread.