Re watched Dallas VS Broncos SB 12

[Ranched]

This is all nice as we reminisce on those glory days, but it's high time we win another Superbowl.

If the Egals can do it with a backup quarterback, there's no reason in the world this stacked team/new coaches should continue these shortcomings.

 

[BourbonBalz]

The DLinemen of today are carring 20-70 lbs more weight than they did in the 70s and 80s. And the OLinemen are 50-80 lbs bigger. The physicality of today's game is much higher than it was so these guys are taking bigger hits and getting gassed.

Much more focus on strength training than cardio is another factor.

I completely disagree. The game was MUCH more physical and brutal then than it is now. It’s not even close. Today, everything draws a flag and/or fine. The players are bigger, but it’s all relative.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

In between the tackles noone is "taking it easy". The new rules are meant to clean up the dirty play and not the physical aspect of it. As much as I loved to watch Randy White play he wouldn't stand a chance against Larry Allen or Tyron Smith.

Running backs used to last 8-12 years. Now they last 4-6. There's good reason for it.

Perhaps, but that's a small part of the field of play. In todays game, you have LBs bailing to cover, you have nickle packages as a standard defensive alignment, rather then a traditional down hill strong safety and a single high. Single high today means a bracket with the other safety. The spacing alone is different. You don't see as many guys at the line of scrimmage as you did then. You don't have guys cleaning you out when you run into the middle of the field. You didn't see WRs running the middle of the field then. You was a different game. You can say it was to "clean up the game" but that's not true. Those things were not against the rules then so there was nothing to "clean up", as it were.

I can think of nobody who would stand a chance against Larry Allen in the History of the game so that's not really a point of indictment. Randy White would never have matched up against Tyron Smith but if he had, or some other DE would have, Smith would not have the advantage of being able to use his hands the way he does now. He wouldn't be able to lock up and physically dominate the way they do now. He would have to block inline with closed hands. Truth is, in that game, Tyron Smith is probably a DE.

For the record, RBs didn't last 8 to 12 years in those days. Some did, sure. But most did not and IMO, the longevity of a RBs life in today's NFL is more a product of the cap. Easier to replace and much cheaper to go with a young guy on a rookie deal.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

Yesterday's game was more violent than today's game, even though the players may be bigger and faster BUT some of the hits that Dick Butkas use to do he would be suspended for the year now.

 

[Whyjerry]

This came up in my recommendation list and decided to watch it. What I wanted to see is the defense. I paid attention to how many times Landry took out his star players in the game. *Hint* not one time did Landry sub out Randy White, or Harvey Martin. Let that sink in for a minute. They rotated Larry Cole out a few plays and too tall a few plays and played some other players. I still do not understand why Lawrence has to come out of the game? I will NEVER agree with removing so called star players during the game, so don't try and convince me. To me it is just the signs of the times of today. People do not work as hard as they once did including football players yet they all want to be paid more.

These guys played the entire game. And believe me they PLAYED. Meaning they kicked butt all game long.

For all of you young fans, I recommend that you watch this game as it will give you a bit of perspective as to what many of us on this board keep saying because we remember these days. We remember when our defense was DOMINANT. When the QB was constantly under pressure. When announcers would say "No team looks forward to this situation, 3rd down and long against Dallas"

When was the last time you saw a team replace their QB because he couldn't escape Dallas pass rush and put in a more mobile QB just to give them a better chance????

Anyway, it felt good to watch a Cowboy game like this again. 8 freaking take aways by this defense.

That game solidified my fandom. Bet my dad 10 bucks on the Cowboys. It was like he handed me a million dollars. The baseball cards I was going to to buy...

Special memory for me.

 

[EGTuna]

So Landry rarely subbed out DL stars. One of the hallmarks of the 92-95 Cowboys was their tremendous DL depth and Jimmy rolled 8 to keep his guys fresh and relentlessly pounding opposing QBs into submission; especially once they got a lead. Remember guys like Lett, Jimmie Jones, Casillas rotating in for the starting 4 of Haley, Hennings, Maryland and Tolbert? Dominance. Both ways work if you have depth. Marinelli, to his detriment, thought he had depth. He did not.

I would also agree that while the sport was certainly more brutal in 1977, from a cardiovascular and muscle fatigue perspective, it is far more difficult now. Teams go tempo/no huddle more often, run tons of horizontal wide zone runs, jet sweep actions, etc. Making DL go horizontal while being legally cut blocked is treacherous.

 

[xwalker]

This came up in my recommendation list and decided to watch it. What I wanted to see is the defense. I paid attention to how many times Landry took out his star players in the game. *Hint* not one time did Landry sub out Randy White, or Harvey Martin. Let that sink in for a minute. They rotated Larry Cole out a few plays and too tall a few plays and played some other players. I still do not understand why Lawrence has to come out of the game? I will NEVER agree with removing so called star players during the game, so don't try and convince me. To me it is just the signs of the times of today. People do not work as hard as they once did including football players yet they all want to be paid more.

These guys played the entire game. And believe me they PLAYED. Meaning they kicked butt all game long.

For all of you young fans, I recommend that you watch this game as it will give you a bit of perspective as to what many of us on this board keep saying because we remember these days. We remember when our defense was DOMINANT. When the QB was constantly under pressure. When announcers would say "No team looks forward to this situation, 3rd down and long against Dallas"

When was the last time you saw a team replace their QB because he couldn't escape Dallas pass rush and put in a more mobile QB just to give them a better chance????

Anyway, it felt good to watch a Cowboy game like this again. 8 freaking take aways by this defense.

Sorry, but your entire concept is wrong.

Jimmy started the trend of subbing out DLinemen.

He went from worst roster in the league to 2 Super Bowl wins within 5 years and his players/concepts resulted in another SB win for 3 in 7 years.

Bill Belichick subs out DLinemen with different front 7 players on each down.

Randy White played DT at 6-3, 260.

White's teammate Rayfield Wright played OT at 6-6, 270.

Cowboys starting DTs in 2019:
A.Woods: 6', 320
M.Collins 6'2, 310

DLaw 6-3, 270 faces OTs that average 320 pounds. He takes a beating, especially as the Strong Side DE.

Robert Quinn (6-4, 260) played Weak Side DE. He generally played more snaps even in games late in the season than DLaw. As a WDE he takes less of a beating in the run game and as a leaner player has is a better fit to play more snaps.

Marinelli just was not as good at knowing when to sub out starters as Jimmy/Belichick.

 

[mrmojo]

Uh oh. "Yore of yesteryear" alert when everything was better, of course.

It was for a fan, we were winning SBs with a great coach and players....where are we now?

 

[mrmojo]

Butchies TD catch incomplete today.

Most of the great hits would have been penalties today.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

Most of the great hits would have been penalties today.

This!

 

[Keithfansince5]

In between the tackles noone is "taking it easy". The new rules are meant to clean up the dirty play and not the physical aspect of it. As much as I loved to watch Randy White play he wouldn't stand a chance against Larry Allen or Tyron Smith.

Running backs used to last 8-12 years. Now they last 4-6. There's good reason for it.

You clearly have no clue. Randy White benched over 500 lbs. He could easily play today or any other era of football. In fact I would take Randy White over any defensive linemen of today. Does Aaron Donald stand a chance against those guys? Oh you mean he does. Donald benched 495 lbs. Donald only weighs 20lbs more than Randy White. Randy could have put on 40 more pounds if needed as he was 6'4". Randy would dominate today just as he did back then.

Something else you forgot, allot of players back then took steroids. (Not saying Randy did) Players back then were not weaker than players today as a general rule. So, they may not have weighed as much but they were equal to or stronger than many players today.

The game was far more physical back then. The game today is considered far more gentlemanly than it was back then.

 

[Keithfansince5]

I don't agree with this at all. Yes, the players are bigger but the game is not more physical today then it was then. I think it's the other way around.

JMO

I agree with you 100%

 

[Keithfansince5]

Sorry, but your entire concept is wrong.

Jimmy started the trend of subbing out DLinemen.

He went from worst roster in the league to 2 Super Bowl wins within 5 years and his players/concepts resulted in another SB win for 3 in 7 years.

Bill Belichick subs out DLinemen with different front 7 players on each down.

Randy White played DT at 6-3, 260.

White's teammate Rayfield Wright played OT at 6-6, 270.

Cowboys starting DTs in 2019:
A.Woods: 6', 320
M.Collins 6'2, 310

DLaw 6-3, 270 faces OTs that average 320 pounds. He takes a beating, especially as the Strong Side DE.

Robert Quinn (6-4, 260) played Weak Side DE. He generally played more snaps even in games late in the season than DLaw. As a WDE he takes less of a beating in the run game and as a leaner player has is a better fit to play more snaps.

Marinelli just was not as good at knowing when to sub out starters as Jimmy/Belichick.

Uh no. You may think my ENTIRE concept is wrong but nothing you said proves it. Everything you said is hypothetical and opinionated. Of course my hypothesis is also opinionated. Woods and Collins suck compared to Randy White. lol Fatter doesn't equate to better.

As I mentioned to another response, guys then were not weaker. They were lighter as most people where back then. Do not assume this meant they would get pushed around. Randy benched over 500lbs. He was fully capable of handling himself against bigger opponents. His speed and quickness and strength made him a dominant player that would easily transfer to today's game.

Give me Harvey Martin, Randy White and Ed Jones on my defensive front today and any other DT you want and I would have a dominant DL in today's game.

 

[ondaedg]

You clearly have no clue. Randy White benched over 500 lbs. He could easily play today or any other era of football. In fact I would take Randy White over any defensive linemen of today. Does Aaron Donald stand a chance against those guys? Oh you mean he does. Donald benched 495 lbs. Donald only weighs 20lbs more than Randy White. Randy could have put on 40 more pounds if needed as he was 6'4". Randy would dominate today just as he did back then.

Something else you forgot, allot of players back then took steroids. (Not saying Randy did) Players back then were not weaker than players today as a general rule. So, they may not have weighed as much but they were equal to or stronger than many players today.

The game was far more physical back then. The game today is considered far more gentlemanly than it was back then.

Great start to the conversation with "you clearly have no clue"... Larry Allen bench pressed 700 lbs so by the logic you chose to use, Randy (who I am a fan of) would have lost his battle with Larry since Larry could bench-press 40% more than Randy.

So many on here want to believe that the sport has regressed or the "good ol days" were so much better . You can believe whatever you want to believe if it makes you feel better to be a part of that era.

 

[Keithfansince5]

Great start to the conversation with "you clearly have no clue"... Larry Allen bench pressed 700 lbs so by the logic you chose to use, Randy (who I am a fan of) would have lost his battle with Larry since Larry could bench-press 40% more than Randy.

So many on here want to believe that the sport has regressed or the "good ol days" were so much better . You can believe whatever you want to believe if it makes you feel better to be a part of that era.

Larry Allen was a freak of nature and likely will never be duplicated by anyone. Using Larry Allen as an example is extremely lame. Sort of like judging QB's by Tom Brady stats. We will never see another Tom Brady. But once in a while even Larry Allen was beat by smaller, faster, quicker players. So, yes, Randy White would at times beat Larry Allen. The point I mentioned about Randy benching 500lbs was just to show that the man was strong like an animal and would still be a dominant force today against heavier OL.

 

[ondaedg]

Larry Allen was a freak of nature and likely will never be duplicated by anyone. Using Larry Allen as an example is extremely lame. Sort of like judging QB's by Tom Brady stats. We will never see another Tom Brady. But once in a while even Larry Allen was beat by smaller, faster, quicker players. So, yes, Randy White would at times beat Larry Allen. The point I mentioned about Randy benching 500lbs was just to show that the man was strong like an animal and would still be a dominant force today against heavier OL.

Ok that's a valid point. Randy White like Larry Allen was a freak of nature and could hold his own against bigger guys. But look at what happened to Jay Ratliff as a NT in our 3-4. He was built like a tank on steroids at 285 lbs but he would get turned into a pretzel when the center and guard double teamed him. You can't beat the laws of the universe especially in the small confines of the trenches when it comes to size, strength and speed.

 

[remdak]

One factor is also that teams pass so much more now. Takes alot more energy to constantly rush the passer than to play run defense.

 

[Vtwin]

Somebody tell Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott or any of the guys they laid out that the game wasn't more physical back then.

 

[Number1]

Now I do believe players back then were in better shape than players today

I don't think it's physical conditioning ... it's mental and generational

not to bring outside issues in but the payers back then were raised by WW2, Korea, and Nam vets ... and several of the coaches fought those wars and or grew up in hard times

it was an era of "never let the other guy out work you"

Landry grew up in a dirt town in rural Texas during the depression, fought in WW2, and played in the NFL when there were no face masks and then in the NFL with no face mask flags - that's rough.

until you've lived through a mess you don't understand
"winning isn't everything - it's the only thing"
remember NFL Films "a violent game played by violent men"
the current commission would never allow such statements in an official broadcast - as not nice enough

these kid's just aren't as tough by nature - it's the times we live in

if these youngsters grew up and the electricity was off sometimes or they didn't get an iPhone pre-puberty they think they had it hard ...

 

[gjkoeppen]

I don't think it's physical conditioning ... it's mental and generational

not to bring outside issues in but the payers back then were raised by WW2, Korea, and Nam vets ... and several of the coaches fought those wars and or grew up in hard times

it was an era of "never let the other guy out work you"

Landry grew up in a dirt town in rural Texas during the depression, fought in WW2, and played in the NFL when there were no face masks and then in the NFL with no face mask flags - that's rough.

until you've lived through a mess you don't understand
"winning isn't everything - it's the only thing"
remember NFL Films "a violent game played by violent men"
the current commission would never allow such statements in an official broadcast - as not nice enough

these kid's just aren't as tough by nature - it's the times we live in

if these youngsters grew up and the electricity was off sometimes or they didn't get an iPhone pre-puberty they think they had it hard ...

There is some truth in what you said. This generation have been babied by their parents and society and because of that the NFL has the CBA they have now. I don't think today's players are as physically and mentally tough as the players prior to the 80's. Again this goes back to the CBA that dictates who many practices in training camp and during the season, how long they can be and when they can wear pads and have contact. Back in the day, the head coach decided when and how many practices in training camp and had 2 a days on most days. They wore pads for every practice and there was contact in most. During the season the same thing. If a practice wasn't going as the coach wanted he could and would keep them out there until they did wearing pads during all practices expect the Friday walk through..Those are the things that made the players of old much tougher than today's players.
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