How Much of an Upgrade are McCoy/Poe?

ItzKelz

ItzKelz

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Any fan of the Dallas Cowboys that says they know what our scheme and philosophy is going to be defensively is lying. We picked up these tackles and we have no idea how we will use them or even what the defensive coaches expect from them schematically. They may be perfect for what our coaches want them to do but we do not know what the coaches want them to do lol.
 
Bigtommyb

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That's what the draft is for. Off-season is a three partner. Free agency, draft and late pickups after camp cuts.
 
ghst187

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It’s a huge upgrade. Our run defense has been crap because Loserelli refused to prioritize run stuffing DTs and we got lit up by scrub RBs numerous times, once costing us a playoff game. It’s not just that Poe and McCoy are big upgrades but it’s the rotation we now have that should stymie the run without problems and free up LBs. If we can get DL to play and RG can still play, we should be a much better defense up front, which makes the backend better. I’m willing to guess our new coaching staff will do more with what we have. I don’t see our d being dominant or anything but if it can get stops and not be a huge liability, we are 3-4 wins better than we were.
 
starfrombirth

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buybuydandavis said:
Hill should be better, maybe a lot better with a new coaching staff that hasn't written him off like Hot and Cold Marinelli.
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Every coach has a dog house and presumably, Marinelli loved Hill when he drafted him but Hill's work ethic got him put in there. If he has the same work ethic with this staff then chances are that he will be in their doghouse as well.
 

Manster_Mash

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The real question is whether either of these guys will be content playing behind trysten hill.
 
BigD_95

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dwreck27 said:
I see them as respectable STOP GAPS

Veteran presence that will give quality reps

But we most definitely will be targeting replacements for them via the draft and going forward because Of their age
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or in a couple of years we grab a couple more veteran players @ DT in free agency
 

doomsday9084

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Last year the linebackers were terrible. With that said, they frequently had a blocker on them almost immediately. Jaylon in particular is the type of linebacker who you want to get a free run at the play and shouldn't be taking on guards right after the snap.

I suspect that the biggest impact that the tackles will have is making the linebackers play better and have more opportunities to shoot gaps created by the DT's.
 
Hadenough

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817Gill said:
Baffles me that we finally go get proven players with size at DT and people feel that we didn’t upgrade. These are names that get thrown out on this forum all the time for the team to get lol, these aren’t randoms

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/pla...t-investment-for-improving-dallas-run-defense

“Both Gerald McCoy and Dontari Poe received much higher grades than the 2019 Cowboys’ starters, according to PFF. McCoy beat out Maliek Collins with 72.0 versus Collins’ 65.7. Poe’s 71.2 overall grade blew Antwaun Woods’ 56.9 out of the water. The real difference was in run defense where the duo of Collins-Woods averaged a 61.2, while McCoy-Poe averaged 73.6. The Cowboys new coaching staff has committed to fixing the run defense, which is line one in Defensive Football 101. Without question, the Cowboys have improved their defensive tackle situation with the signings of McCoy and Poe.”

PFF isn’t everything, but I challenge any of y’all to get substantive analysis that shows Collins/Woods were better overall players. The film, analytics, and statistics from their careers as well as last years don’t lie.

The argument that last years Panthers Defense performed poorly thus McCoy/Poe can’t play is shallow. Not only did they play a scheme that doesn’t fit their skills (3/4) and have to deal with multiple injuries across the front (Poe’s absence resulted in 50ypg increase rushing). But this was arguably one of the worst years in the recent history of the Carolina Panthers, as they fired their coach mid-season and basically tanked. This has a huuuge impact on the end of year stats. I’m not going to overrule multiple years of good film on both these guys for one bad team statistical season when a generally stable organization undergoes a complete overhaul.

I bet if we had signed McCoy and another of those 4 reported 1T’s there would be no issue. Poe and another well-regraded 3T would’ve been just fine. But don’t let them sign together now we have an issue lol

Get hype, we finally have 2 legit DT’s. A common theme for all Super Bowl teams.
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You make some very good points on posting how the players grade out. I think a lot of people are concerned that these guys are worn out.
 

buybuydandavis

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starfrombirth said:
Every coach has a dog house and presumably, Marinelli loved Hill when he drafted him but Hill's work ethic got him put in there. If he has the same work ethic with this staff then chances are that he will be in their doghouse as well.
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Some coaches do their jobs, which is to get the most out of his players. If you draft a guy with a poor work ethic, don't complain that he has one. This was not news with Hill. Make the most of him.
 
Jake

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817Gill said:
Baffles me that we finally go get proven players with size at DT and people feel that we didn’t upgrade. These are names that get thrown out on this forum all the time for the team to get lol, these aren’t randoms

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/pla...t-investment-for-improving-dallas-run-defense

“Both Gerald McCoy and Dontari Poe received much higher grades than the 2019 Cowboys’ starters, according to PFF. McCoy beat out Maliek Collins with 72.0 versus Collins’ 65.7. Poe’s 71.2 overall grade blew Antwaun Woods’ 56.9 out of the water. The real difference was in run defense where the duo of Collins-Woods averaged a 61.2, while McCoy-Poe averaged 73.6. The Cowboys new coaching staff has committed to fixing the run defense, which is line one in Defensive Football 101. Without question, the Cowboys have improved their defensive tackle situation with the signings of McCoy and Poe.”

PFF isn’t everything, but I challenge any of y’all to get substantive analysis that shows Collins/Woods were better overall players. The film, analytics, and statistics from their careers as well as last years don’t lie.

The argument that last years Panthers Defense performed poorly thus McCoy/Poe can’t play is shallow. Not only did they play a scheme that doesn’t fit their skills (3/4) and have to deal with multiple injuries across the front (Poe’s absence resulted in 50ypg increase rushing). But this was arguably one of the worst years in the recent history of the Carolina Panthers, as they fired their coach mid-season and basically tanked. This has a huuuge impact on the end of year stats. I’m not going to overrule multiple years of good film on both these guys for one bad team statistical season when a generally stable organization undergoes a complete overhaul.

I bet if we had signed McCoy and another of those 4 reported 1T’s there would be no issue. Poe and another well-regraded 3T would’ve been just fine. But don’t let them sign together now we have an issue lol

Get hype, we finally have 2 legit DT’s. A common theme for all Super Bowl teams.
Click to expand...

The only question is how much they have left. As anyone selling an investment will tell you, past performance is not a predictor of future results.

If they can still play at their previous levels it'll be good for the Cowboys. Let's hope.
 
Dak_Attack_09

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817Gill said:
Baffles me that we finally go get proven players with size at DT and people feel that we didn’t upgrade. These are names that get thrown out on this forum all the time for the team to get lol, these aren’t randoms

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/pla...t-investment-for-improving-dallas-run-defense

“Both Gerald McCoy and Dontari Poe received much higher grades than the 2019 Cowboys’ starters, according to PFF. McCoy beat out Maliek Collins with 72.0 versus Collins’ 65.7. Poe’s 71.2 overall grade blew Antwaun Woods’ 56.9 out of the water. The real difference was in run defense where the duo of Collins-Woods averaged a 61.2, while McCoy-Poe averaged 73.6. The Cowboys new coaching staff has committed to fixing the run defense, which is line one in Defensive Football 101. Without question, the Cowboys have improved their defensive tackle situation with the signings of McCoy and Poe.”

PFF isn’t everything, but I challenge any of y’all to get substantive analysis that shows Collins/Woods were better overall players. The film, analytics, and statistics from their careers as well as last years don’t lie.

The argument that last years Panthers Defense performed poorly thus McCoy/Poe can’t play is shallow. Not only did they play a scheme that doesn’t fit their skills (3/4) and have to deal with multiple injuries across the front (Poe’s absence resulted in 50ypg increase rushing). But this was arguably one of the worst years in the recent history of the Carolina Panthers, as they fired their coach mid-season and basically tanked. This has a huuuge impact on the end of year stats. I’m not going to overrule multiple years of good film on both these guys for one bad team statistical season when a generally stable organization undergoes a complete overhaul.

I bet if we had signed McCoy and another of those 4 reported 1T’s there would be no issue. Poe and another well-regraded 3T would’ve been just fine. But don’t let them sign together now we have an issue lol

Get hype, we finally have 2 legit DT’s. A common theme for all Super Bowl teams.
Click to expand...


I would still draft a DT in 4th round.
 
kiheikiwi

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First off, it's a massive upgrade, and not just the players.
Remember how much the Jones' loved Marinelli. How he influenced the drafts, with late round DT's that he would slobber all over, then cut in TC. The Hills of the world, the Ivies, the Golden Cocks.
The simple fact that they have now allowed MM to change that whole philosophy and bring in two mountains is a huge win.
Now, both McCoy and Poe are on relatively short and modestly priced contracts, so, a bridge so to speak.
I would expect a middle round 3 - 4 pick to be added this year and depending how everybody adjusts this year, same or higher next. With all the comp. Picks.
McCarthy said he wants a 10 man front so
Poe, McCoy, Woods and Hill Inside ? Lawrence, Crawford, maybe Greggory, Armstrong, maybe a draft pick and see what comes out of TC (if we have one) of our DE's we have down the depth chart.
With so many other positions to fix/fill this year, the strategy for interior line looks solid !
I'm pretty happy with how they have got to this point.
 
Shuff

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Ask me after the season, anything now is just pure speculation.
 
quickccc

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Even with addition of stop gap band-aids McCoy and Poe, this defense is not even close to being dominant.
But you want to give the LBs a chance to be freed up and flow to the ball much more so. (especially Jay-Swipe)

Both McCoy and Poe have had pro bowl credentials- something we couldn't ever say with either Maliek or Woods, time will tell if there is any semblance of that with the aforementioned two.

They will do while we still address the DT with young heir apparent at both DT spots in the future.
i dunno if that puts Trysten Hill back into the mix, as he wasn't part of the coaching input that Marinelli was apparently a part of .

Its still gonna be very key to get quality depth guys behind Poe/McCoy - both in sub-rotation and nickel packages and guys that can fill in adequately when/if Poe/McCoy
get hurt.
 
armadillooutlaw

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quickccc said:
Even with addition of stop gap band-aids McCoy and Poe, this defense is not even close to being dominant.
But you want to give the LBs a chance to be freed up and flow to the ball much more so. (especially Jay-Swipe)

Both McCoy and Poe have had pro bowl credentials- something we couldn't ever say with either Maliek or Woods, time will tell if there is any semblance of that with the aforementioned two.

They will do while we still address the DT with young heir apparent at both DT spots in the future.
i dunno if that puts Trysten Hill back into the mix, as he wasn't part of the coaching input that Marinelli was apparently a part of .

Its still gonna be very key to get quality depth guys behind Poe/McCoy - both in sub-rotation and nickel packages and guys that can fill in adequately when/if Poe/McCoy
get hurt.
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A DT in the top three rounds would be a nice get, still.
 

Silverz1972

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It was disgustingly frustration the last few years when teams would run right over us.
 
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