Counting on Aldon/Gregory is like playing Russian Roulette

Sydla · May 7, 2020

QuincyCarterEra said:
It's weird because I never mentioned all 55 players being high priced. Yes you flat out stated Armstrong would have a good year, doesn't make it true.

My use of hyperbole?
Wait okay. So let's make a bet. Of the players mentioned Armstrong, Gregory, Jelks, Anae, Smith, Armstrong, RonDell Carter, and Jackson I said half of them wouldn't make the team. And you're claiming that's hyperbole? Alright let's bet then. If four or more of them get cut I get what? If three or less get cut you get what?

I suspect some will get sent to practice squad again.............

QuincyCarterEra · May 7, 2020

Sydla said:
I suspect some will get sent to practice squad again.............

How would you rank our guys? This is one position I struggle with because I have so many pet cats.

Knotamus · May 7, 2020

Sydla said:
Even with Quinn's sack numbers, we were a middling pass rush team and that was with Jones at CB to cover up some things on the back end.

Now we don't have Quinn rushing the passer, are hoping the DTs can pick up his lost production which would land us again......... a blah pass rushing team now with a greener and less accomplished secondary.

I suppose we’ll just gloss over what Aldon Smith can do till he gets reinstated..

I’m not debating Quinn’s sack production, but if we’re being honest.. the DLs ability to stop the run is what really hurt the defense last year. Quinn is a pass specialist and was a detriment against the run. On the other hand..Crawford is great against the run, yet can still snag 5-6 sacks. Pick your poison.

Not enough has been said ab our $20mil DE Demarcus Lawrence. He should return as our sack leader now that he has McCoy and Poe creating push up the middle and relieving the constant double teams.

That said, hell Im not against getting veteran insurance like Everson Griffin.The more the marrier. Based on our salary cap, I just find it unlikely that will happen. (Clowney is a real prayer and won’t happen) We should “Hope and Pray” the FO can work a deal like we did for Quinn last year. Wow, the FO shored up DE last year w/ a 6th rd pick.. amazing, right?!

My point was, we have a lot of questions in general about our team, let’s see what the young guys can do. AND AGAIN.. give Armstrong more that 24% of defensive snaps. He had two sacks in mostly spot duty during two down situations. Quinn took over in obvious passing downs. Keep in mind our DTs are improved. There’s talent on this DL..The Sky isn’t falling.

Jstopper · May 7, 2020

Where are people getting this idea that Gregory is a risk? Did nobody else read where the CBA isn’t suspending for weed anymore?

Knotamus · May 7, 2020

Sydla said:
What leads you to believe Crawford "can do the job" as the starting RDE opposite Lawrence?

Obvious answer: Crawford has done before.

Last year: Quinn 11.5 sacks/ Lawrence 5!

As I’ve already stated, yet you chose to ignore..Lawrence should return as our sack leader, so 11.5 sacks isn’t out of his realm. Crawford has always been good for 5 sacks. That said, I’m not advocating Crawford to be Quinn’s replacement, more a decent back up to whom ever steps up. Will that be Aldon Smith? Armstrong? Anae? Gregory?

The one thing for sure is.. our DT and overall DL depth is stronger. Again, if you don’t share my same opinion on that.. good for you. You can continue to “Hope and Pray” for a veteran FA that no other team has signed yet either

Knotamus · May 7, 2020

rocyaice said:
It is but this is the position we face. It can either be really good or it can be decent. I think the floor is decent. I don't expect bad defensive end play this year from anyone. I think with the new DT's its going to free up our DE's to wreck more havoc. Especially Lawrence.

This team doesn't need stellar play from those guys if they are getting it from McCoy, Lawrence and Poe. I think people get too caught up in Quinn's sack numbers. His sack numbers will be replaced. But will we be improved against the run? I believe so.

Agreed.

QuincyCarterEra · May 7, 2020

Knotamus said:
Agreed.

I'm assuming you're rethinking your hyperbole claim now and that's why you didn't reply, right?

All good dude.

Sydla · May 7, 2020

QuincyCarterEra said:
How would you rank our guys? This is one position I struggle with because I have so many pet cats.

Gut feeling................ these 6 would make the 53:

- Lawrence
- Crawford
- Armstrong
- Anae

I suspect one of Gregory or Smith will make it. Then Jelks and Jackson seem interchangeable and likely practice squad guys if both Smith and Gregory are reinstated and play well enough for the 53.

But when you look at it.......... there is clearly a massive drop off after Lawrence at DE. It just makes so much sense to go out and bring in Griffen but this front office is putting all their eggs into getting something out of Gregory and/or Smith. Hope they are right.

Sydla · May 7, 2020

Knotamus said:
I suppose we’ll just gloss over what Aldon Smith can do till he gets reinstated..

I’m not debating Quinn’s sack production, but if we’re being honest.. the DLs ability to stop the run is what really hurt the defense last year. Quinn is a pass specialist and was a detriment against the run. On the other hand..Crawford is great against the run, yet can still snag 5-6 sacks. Pick your poison.

Not enough has been said ab our $20mil DE Demarcus Lawrence. He should return as our sack leader now that he has McCoy and Poe creating push up the middle and relieving the constant double teams.

That said, hell Im not against getting veteran insurance like Everson Griffin.The more the marrier. Based on our salary cap, I just find it unlikely that will happen. (Clowney is a real prayer and won’t happen) We should “Hope and Pray” the FO can work a deal like we did for Quinn last year. Wow, the FO shored up DE last year w/ a 6th rd pick.. amazing, right?!

My point was, we have a lot of questions in general about our team, let’s see what the young guys can do. AND AGAIN.. give Armstrong more that 24% of defensive snaps. He had two sacks in mostly spot duty during two down situations. Quinn took over in obvious passing downs. Keep in mind our DTs are improved. There’s talent on this DL..The Sky isn’t falling.

Gloss over what with Smith? We don't know what Smith can do, that's the point. He hasn't played in a NFL game since Nov 2015. That's over 4 seasons ago. The Cowboys are taking a very large risk assuming he's the same player from 5-6 years ago. I don't see how that's hyperbole or too pessimistic to point out the risk in banking your pass rush on a guy who is over 30 and hasn't played a NFL game in over 4 seasons.

People are overvaluing what we have at DE. As I said earlier, it's very similar to the logic we heard in 2018 from fans defending the Cowboys approach to WR................... Beasley would get better, Hurns would return to form, Wilson and Gallup would take major steps forward, Austin would find his first round potential........................ and it was a disaster to the point that we traded a #1 to bring Cooper in. Gallup was the only one from that original pie in the sky WR list that actually did anything. I feel like we are taking a similar approach to DE.

Sydla · May 7, 2020

Knotamus said:
Obvious answer: Crawford has done before.

Last year: Quinn 11.5 sacks/ Lawrence 5!

As I’ve already stated, yet you chose to ignore..Lawrence should return as our sack leader, so 11.5 sacks isn’t out of his realm. Crawford has always been good for 5 sacks. That said, I’m not advocating Crawford to be Quinn’s replacement, more a decent back up to whom ever steps up. Will that be Aldon Smith? Armstrong? Anae? Gregory?

The one thing for sure is.. our DT and overall DL depth is stronger. Again, if you don’t share my same opinion on that.. good for you. You can continue to “Hope and Pray” for a veteran FA that no other team has signed yet either

I have no issues with DT at this point. I have issues with DE. It's a band aid approach that I could live with if there weren't options out there to get better, which there are.

The bolded part gets to the heart of the matter. You seem to be making an assumption one of those four will definitely step up. That's the problem, there's a good chance none of the four will and will also be nothing better than backups. Two of the guys haven't played football in some time (one in over a year, one in over 4 years). The other is a 5th round rookie and history shows the odds are very low a late round rookie has a major impact at DE. And the last is Armstrong, a veteran who despite this claim has flashed a lot, he's been nothing more than solid as a backup.

It's simply about placing odds and taking risk. Banking on those four to deliver one really good RDE is high risk. It just is. Will it work out? Maybe, but the odds are not in our favor.

Which is why I think it's much smarter to go out and get a proven commodity like Griffen and cut Crawford if you have to make it work.

Cowboyny · May 7, 2020

Hawkeye0202 said:
Good post! I agree 1000%.....Gregory CAN'T stop smoking and although Aldon should be proud of being sober 8-9 months, the fact is his issue is still fragile, one drink and he relapses. This is why signing Markus Golden is no brainer IMO. Quality player who immediately STABILIZE the position for about $6M.

I agree. Let's also remember Crawford is coming off of major surgery. There are a few veterans out there who would be good value signings at the position.

Cowboyny · May 7, 2020

CowboyRoy said:
I don't agree. Aldon alone would be roulette, but we have Gregory, Crawford, Aldon.

All have major question marks, two with off the field issues, where Crawford is coming off of major surgery on both his hips.

TheHerd · May 7, 2020

rocyaice said:
It is but this is the position we face. It can either be really good or it can be decent. I think the floor is decent. I don't expect bad defensive end play this year from anyone. I think with the new DT's its going to free up our DE's to wreck more havoc. Especially Lawrence.

This team doesn't need stellar play from those guys if they are getting it from McCoy, Lawrence and Poe. I think people get too caught up in Quinn's sack numbers. His sack numbers will be replaced. But will we be improved against the run? I believe so.

Not only the run, but the screens and dumps offs over his head. Watching lowlights shows an inordinate amount of big plays targeted his aggressive nature to get the sack total up.

Cowboyny · May 7, 2020

speedkilz88 said:
On Gregory, they raised the amount of thc allowed on a test and they no longer suspend for failing. Instead they impose counseling and they only suspend if they don't comply. Gregory is already in counseling, it isn't an issue.

There is a lot of unknown how this will be played out. If Gregory continues to fail drug tests even with counseling what is the next step the NFL will take?

xwalker · May 7, 2020

Cowboyny said:
Many believe that the team is covered at the DE spot due to the pending returns of Aldon Smith & Randy Gregory. Broaddus stated over draft weekend, he heard Aldon Smith has a better chance of reinstatement. Nobody knows what will the commissioner decide to do. He could impose in season game suspensions for prior infractions or even have stipulations to their reinstatement.

I am not aware how the new CBA will treat a player like Randy Gregory. If he continues to fail drug tests, will their be any punishment, will he be forced to get treatment? Does Goodell have the power to suspend him indefinitely? As for Aldon Smith, it's more clear, if he falls off the wagon, he will be suspended again.

Taking away the drugs/alcohol, neither has played any meaningful football in a long time, Aldon Smith hasn't played a single snap in 4 years. When he went to the Raiders, many thought his skills have greatly diminished to the player he once was with the 49ers. How will he be now with such a long layoff? As for Gregory, he has played in almost 30 games in his career, with just only 7 sacks. A realistic expectation for both, is that they are brought along slowly and hopefully are playing meaningful snaps down the stretch.

I would like nothing more to see both these players succeed as Dallas Cowboys, but with their track records, one mistake could end their comebacks. I don't believe the team has protected themselves enough at this position. The team has decided to play Russian Roulette and we all have to hold our breaths every time we read daily NFL news.

Not really.

It's more like being surrounded by wolves and having box of bullets that you know has good bullets mixed with duds but no way to know which ones are which. The more bullets available the higher the probability that some of them are good.

Randy Gregory and Aldon Smith represent probabilities.

Consider group A and B below: Group B has a higher probability of success.

A: All current options at DE NOT including Gregory and Aldon Smith.

B: All current options at DE including Gregory and Aldon Smith.

Russian Roulette would be if the Cowboys DE unit was guaranteed to fail if 1 of Gregory or Smith failed.

Cowboyny · May 7, 2020

Bobhaze said:
The old sports management adage applies here....”Hope is not a strategy.” I believe the Cowboys will add another player or two at this position before the season starts (if it starts)

We all hope injuries and suspensions do not affect any position. But it’s good practice for winning NFL front offices to hope for the best while planning for the worst. Jerry has always had a weakness as a FO leader for having overly optimistic plans without planning for the worst. It’s gotten better in the last 5 years, so let’s hope we are not just relying on “hope”.

Excellent post, couldn't agree more and that's the point, have to prepare for the worst.

Cowboyny · May 7, 2020

xwalker said:
Not really.

It's more like being surrounded by wolves and having box of bullets that you know has good bullets mixed with duds but no way to know which ones are which. The more bullets available the higher the probability that some of them are good.

Randy Gregory and Aldon Smith represent probabilities.

Consider group A and B below: Group B has a higher probability of success.

A: All current options at DE NOT including Gregory and Aldon Smith.

B: All current options at DE including Gregory and Aldon Smith.

Russian Roulette would be if the Cowboys DE unit was guaranteed to fail if 1 of Gregory or Smith failed.

Good analogy. My point is, if they are going to prepare for the worse, like they try to do at QB/Swing Tackle this week, they have to do the same at DE.

Cowboyny · May 7, 2020

Sydla said:
Griffen had 8 sacks last year and a high pressure rate. He would replace Quinn, essentially, and then you hope the DTs you add help with interior pressure and overall your team would be better at getting after the QB. The added bonus is then one of Gregory or Smith hits themselves.

Griffen is also a very good run defender, where Quinn was a liability in that area

JoeKing · May 7, 2020

I disagree, I think their chances of being reinstated are very good and their contribution to the team will be very good as well. No need to argue about it though. The commish's decision on their reinstatement is coming in just a couple of weeks. I can hold tight until then.

Kaiser · May 7, 2020

Knotamus said:
I’m not Counting on Aldon and Gregory. If they are able to come back it would icing on the cake. I’m not worried ab how they’ll play either.. they are freaks of nature, both could literally roll out of bed and sack a QB.

That said.. no matter how you feel ab the guy, Crawford has already proved he can play DE. Rookie Bradlee Anae looks Primed and ready to prove he should have been drafted higher. And we have two 2nd year guys in Joe Jackson & Jalen Jelks, Can we see what they have? Not to mention Ron’Dell Carter whom 24 other teams we’re interested in.

Last but not least.. My personal favorite, Dorance Armstrong will surprise folks going into his third season. According to Bill Parcells, the 3rd year is the prove it season. Armstrong only played 24% of defensive snaps last year, yet flashed potential when giving a chance. Looking forward to a big year from Armstrong.

Great post, I started a thread about the offseason 8 years ago where fans went nuts because the team didn't sign a big FA to fill the hole at OG. Fans laughed at the team for saying they were hopeful about Ron Leary but all that seemed to work out OK.

I don't think they are set or any of these guys will necessarily be Ron Leary - but you have four shots at someone who can fill the role, plus Crawford, plus a late addition if somehow all five options drop out.

Counting on Aldon/Gregory is like playing Russian Roulette

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