Is our OL still considered Elite?

Redball Express said:

I think not.

Maybe a top 10.

We have had too much turnover and injuries to be consider top top.

Win and the perception of what winning does for rep factors heavily.

In 2018..the OL was decent but not good enough.

These guys they have drafted need to come thru.

Badass..our 4th rd draft pick needs to work out as our new center ASAP.

Moving around our backup OL to cover that position is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Eventually after awhile, that will lower the whole quality of our OL.

Guys need to stay in their positions and just improve over time. Everybody wants the big contracts but we are running out of money to keep paying our OL like we are.

We shall see.

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fivetwos said:

Again, semantics with the word bust.

Call him whatever you like, but he is somewhere between average and below average as a starting guard.

He is probably a decent NFL right tackle, but that ain't gonna happen in Dallas...and that's basically a guess since he had reasonable success at LT at Texas.

The fact that he has started a certain amount of games means nothing beyond the team not having a better option (see X. Woods on that one).

Not gonna debate this point endlessly, but if the team's goal is to get the best five on the field, Williams wont be one of them by the time camp ends.

If you're a second round pick and dont have a strong hold on a starting position heading into year three, no one ought to be pleased.

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Cowboyny said:

Agree to disagree. Let's see how it plays out!

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Cowboyny said:

In my opinion, the Cowboy OL was truly elite under Bill Callahan and hasn't been the same since he left. Pollack failed to get his unit to match previous success and was let go in just 2 season, the hiring of Paul Alexander was an utter disaster. Columbo did a better job replacing Alexander, but was let go this offseason as MM wanted to hire his own staff.

I believe Columbo was running more of a man blocking scheme last season compared to Callahan's Zone Blocking Scheme. The biggest benefactor was Collins as he had his best season as a pro. Joe Philbin will bring back the Zone Blocking Scheme, but I have read an old article saying his coaching is more about the fundamentals then the scheme. We heard the same thing from MM regarding the draft, just find us good players and we will scheme around their strengths. This is very refreshing to hear. Let's take a quick look at some of our OL personnel:

-Tyron-it's hard to believe he is only 29 years old. Injuries have taken a toll, but is still a high level blind spot protector in this league. From my own viewpoint, he struggles with edge speed, but if he gets his hands on you, it's game, set, match. He will miss a few starts, but he is still a very good LT in this league.

-Martin-he is also 29 years old, coming off an injury plaque season. Clearly he wasn't right all season and it showed at times. Like Tyron, dealing with back concerns. Even if Martin isn't playing at 100%. he is still better then the majority of Guards in this league.

-Collins-most of us, including myself were scratches our heads when we heard about his extension last season. Boy, were we wrong. Had a tremendous, breakout season, in which he was relatively heathy, which was a big issue for him earlier in his career. He is one of the best RT's in this league and is still getting better.

-Connor Williams-I believe many Cowboy fans don't give him any credit what so ever and believe he is a total bust of a draft pick. First of all, not many rookies are successful plug and play starters, especially learning to play a brand new position. When Connor Williams came in this league, many believe he needs to add more weight to his frame, he did just that after his first season. He clearly was a better player in year 2 and is still developing. Don't be surprised when he beats the competition and starts against this season. Last thing I will say, he isn't a Tackle, there is a reason why they are playing him inside at Guard as he is short armed for the Tackle position.

Is the OL still considered elite? No, but they are still young enough as a group to play at an elite level again. With better coaching, better health and more development it is possible.

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Whyjerry said:

Good post. I say good but not elite. I think Martin and Collins are studs. Smith is a big question mark. Still great when he shows up. I like a couple of the new guys coming in. I like them a lot. Williams is a huge question mark. The whole team has been under coached for a decade so I think this new staff will maximize the talent. This unit can still be very good but not elite.

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fivetwos said:

Well hey I'm not exactly rooting against Williams and very much hope I'm wrong.

I just think McGovern is a better interior lineman.

Williams is much more versatile and was probably misused here so far.. .but he isnt playing tackle in Dallas unless someone gets hurt.

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Whyjerry said:

Good post. I say good but not elite. I think Martin and Collins are studs. Smith is a big question mark. Still great when he shows up. I like a couple of the new guys coming in. I like them a lot. Williams is a huge question mark. The whole team has been under coached for a decade so I think this new staff will maximize the talent. This unit can still be very good but not elite.

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DFWJC said:

Top 5-6 offensive lines? yes
But probably not top 2-3
So not purely elite

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Cowboyny said:

In my opinion, the Cowboy OL was truly elite under Bill Callahan and hasn't been the same since he left. Pollack failed to get his unit to match previous success and was let go in just 2 season, the hiring of Paul Alexander was an utter disaster. Columbo did a better job replacing Alexander, but was let go this offseason as MM wanted to hire his own staff.

I believe Columbo was running more of a man blocking scheme last season compared to Callahan's Zone Blocking Scheme. The biggest benefactor was Collins as he had his best season as a pro. Joe Philbin will bring back the Zone Blocking Scheme, but I have read an old article saying his coaching is more about the fundamentals then the scheme. We heard the same thing from MM regarding the draft, just find us good players and we will scheme around their strengths. This is very refreshing to hear. Let's take a quick look at some of our OL personnel:

-Tyron-it's hard to believe he is only 29 years old. Injuries have taken a toll, but is still a high level blind spot protector in this league. From my own viewpoint, he struggles with edge speed, but if he gets his hands on you, it's game, set, match. He will miss a few starts, but he is still a very good LT in this league.

-Martin-he is also 29 years old, coming off an injury plaque season. Clearly he wasn't right all season and it showed at times. Like Tyron, dealing with back concerns. Even if Martin isn't playing at 100%. he is still better then the majority of Guards in this league.

-Collins-most of us, including myself were scratches our heads when we heard about his extension last season. Boy, were we wrong. Had a tremendous, breakout season, in which he was relatively heathy, which was a big issue for him earlier in his career. He is one of the best RT's in this league and is still getting better.

-Connor Williams-I believe many Cowboy fans don't give him any credit what so ever and believe he is a total bust of a draft pick. First of all, not many rookies are successful plug and play starters, especially learning to play a brand new position. When Connor Williams came in this league, many believe he needs to add more weight to his frame, he did just that after his first season. He clearly was a better player in year 2 and is still developing. Don't be surprised when he beats the competition and starts against this season. Last thing I will say, he isn't a Tackle, there is a reason why they are playing him inside at Guard as he is short armed for the Tackle position.

Is the OL still considered elite? No, but they are still young enough as a group to play at an elite level again. With better coaching, better health and more development it is possible.

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Vtwin said:

One of the things working against Tyrone is the change in the way holding is called.

One of Smith's most talked about strengths is his hand strength. Heard/read it said a million times, "once he gets his hands on you it's over". Lineman were allowed to grab as long as they kept their hands inside. The league decided to take that away and emphasized it a couple seasons ago. Unless you play for the Packers, that is.

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