Dak or the Play Calling

TexasFrog said:

I still think Dak is at his best rolling out. Some of his prettiest deep throws were rolling out. We really didn’t take advantage of many things he could do. That’s why I’m interested to see one year under a real coach

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TexasFrog said:

I still think Dak is at his best rolling out. Some of his prettiest deep throws were rolling out. We really didn’t take advantage of many things he could do. That’s why I’m interested to see one year under a real coach

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khiladi said:

It limits the field too much to be using often. Dak is good at is, because he’s an athletic QB and more decisive when rolling out.

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khiladi said:

His problems with the drop-back go back since his time in the NFL. And as an aside, anybody that compared Aikman to Dak, while understanding these facts now, is either lying to himself or simply unable to comprehend Dak’s lack of timing and hitting QBs in stride. This is without getting in the issues of him resorting to throwing off his back foot when under a modicum or pressure.

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...lling-snap-analysis-2019-season-dak-prescott/

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khiladi said:

Of course it’s relevant, considering what type of offense a QB is running.

Further,

https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2020/05/14/seahawks-qb-russell-wilson-most-suited-for-7-step-drop/
“As the NFL has transitioned to more of a quick passing game by default, the seven-step drop is almost a thing of the past,” Farrar writes. “Jared Goff was the only quarterback in 2019 with more than 50 attempts on seven-step drops (68), but it was Wilson, Goff’s NFC West rival, who proved most effective on those longer dropbacks with a 157.6 passer rating.”

This is SEVEN STEP drops.. Goff had 68, so Dak is clearly not even close, with thirty TOTAL drop backs this season, while being second in passing attempts. It is a CLEAR weakness of Dak, especially in the type of offense Linehan ran.

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Future said:

Lol you can squint at single data points all you want, but it absolutely does not support the point that you're making.

Literally right in the quote it says that the 7-step drop is mostly irrelevant.

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TwoDeep3 said:

The author of that article is an amateur. Not exactly like having a room full of Super Bowl coaches and one number's cruncher to make this determination. Click on his name in that article and it takes you to this.


Dalton Miller

Army veteran, amateur NFL Draft scout and journalism major
trying to navigate my way into sports talk radio. I podcast things
and host other things. Like my Cavalry Scout mantra, I'm a "jack of all trades,
master of none."

Does this sound like someone who is insightful in regard to football? Maybe to you. Podcast says amateur to me. By the way, you linked this in another thread. I guess you thought this was so cutting edge it needed it's own thread.

Huffington Post created the work at home "expert," who writes articles while in their pajamas. Presumably with Cheeto's dust on their fingers and keyboards. Craig's List has hundreds of this style job, where the person doing to work has to post so many articles a day to earn enough to purchase about 1100 calories of nourishment. If they take out taxes, his work place could be in a tent city somewhere.

Podcast just sounds to me like a guy no one wants to ever come to the office. It also creates this aura of minimum wage in my mind.

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khiladi said:

Romo was traditionally a drop back passer. That being said, in Romo’s 2014 season, the first with Linehan he threw 75 attempts off play action into January of 2015. That was the most in his career I believe. In Dak’s first year, by half the season Linehan already called more play-action than in a full season with Romo.

https://www.espn.com/blog/dallas/co...3/romos-play-action-passes-bringing-big-gains

As an aside, Garrett almost never called play action and on his last official year in the 2012-2013 season, Dallaswas bottom five in play action. Can one imagine how much pressure Romo was put under with this HC/OC that could hardly field a proper RG, while very rarely using play-action to freeze LBs And DBs. Here is the Garrett track record:

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/201...ion-much---we-try-to-figure-out-why-tony-romo

That is why any comparison between what Romo worked with a Dak is ridiculous.

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khiladi said:

No, that’s not what it says. What it states is that it’s becoming more irrelevant. Your contention was that drop-backs are meaningless without context, unless one knows what other teams do.

And when that data was provided, it’s clear that Dak isn’t EVEN CLOSE to what one defines as becoming irrelevant, he isn’t even close to other QBs. What they define as getting more irrelevant isn’t even close to how LITTLE Dak does it.

Claiming that it’s a trend of offenses and not a limitation of Dak is almost completely void of any basis. And in the other articles it’s recognized as a clear limitation.

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khiladi said:

Do you have any argument to refute what he states anc the data he provides or is this basically ad hominem? Do you have complain when “amateurs” quote from Twitter about how many deep TD passes Dak has thrown?

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Future said:

No my contention is that you're making an assumption that the cowboys want to do it, when the league-wide trend suggests the exact opposite. Correlation does not prove causation, and you haven't even proven causation. There is just absolutely nothing to suggest that the Cowboys don't use a 7-step dropback b/c of Dak's skillset. Nothing.

It's a garbage take that the Cowboys don't run dropback passes because of Dak's skillset based on the points you're using.

The bolded is flat out wrong. I just gave you all of the percentages of passing plays from under center. Dak is right in line with the rest of the league.

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Literally right in the quote it says that the 7-step drop is mostly irrelevant.

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khiladi said:

No, what you stated was:



1. First of all, this is seven-step drop, not under center.

2. That is not what it stated. It actually states that guys like Goff threw 68 TIMES from the seven step drop.

3. Dak threw THIRTY times under center. That includes the three-step, five-step and seven-step drop.

You are completely wrong.

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Future said:

"The seven-step drop is almost a thing of the past" means that even if Goff does it, most QBs don't. So there's no reason to think that Dallas would. It is right in the Goff quote, and it even says that Goff is an anomaly in that metric. It is an entirely irrelevant point.

Volume of pass plays doesn't matter. Percentages matter. Pass percentages when lined up under center:

Dak - 29%
Mahomes - 28%

By your logic, the Chiefs don't throw it from under center because of Mahomes' inability to drop back from under center, because that was the same critique of him coming out of college. It is stupid logic and you're skewing data to make a point that does not exist.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the Cowboys want to run more traditional dropbacks from under center, and there is even less to suggest that the reason they don't is because of Dak's footwork. It just isn't there.

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One of the things that stands out the most is that Prescott only threw the ball 30 times after dropping back from under center (he also attempted 90 play-action passes from that formation). A fair number of those 30 passes did not even require an actual drop back from center: some of them were quick screens thrown immediately after the snap.

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Another focus was on the depth of his drops from center, which were too long and put his tackles in difficult spots because they were not expecting him to be so deep on his five- or seven-step drops. The goal is to have the same landmarks on each drop on each play.

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Runwildboys said:

You wanna see perfect, watch Lamar Jackson. That guy might be the best I've ever seen at faking a handoff.

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Moreover, many of the infrequent pass attempts from under center are not traditional five-step drops; they are often quick screens to the wide receiver or something similar, which requires the quarterback just to get his feet planted and fire the ball.

After three years as an NFL quarterback, Prescott still doesn’t routinely drop back into the pocket and throw the ball. He did it just twice against the Saints, twice versus Miami, twice in Washington, and three times in the season opener.

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TwoDeep3 said:

Yes....I think his analytics is crap. Subjective.

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buybuydandavis said:

Very interesting stats. Particularly the increased use of play action with Romo in 2014 doubling that in Dak's rookie year, both years *when the offense dominated*.

That we don't call play action is a testimony to the idiocy of our coaching. Teams stacking the box as they key on Zeke, and we don't call play action. It's really incredible.

I don't want to hear that Dak can't drop back. If that's true, that's yet another indictment of the coaching staff. If he has problems, fix them. Learning a 5 step drop is not learning how to dance Swan Lake. Get it done.

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