Dak a Tier-2 QB per NFL Coaches and Execs

JoaquinFenix said:

Please note that the theme of the original post was what Dallas could’ve done differently, not what they did right.

Besides, I mentioned Dalton in item no. 3. What good is leverage, however, if you don’t use it? Dalton is on a 1-year deal, as is Dak. The time to use Dalton as leverage was when you rescinded the tag and showed Dak you’d be willing to roll with Dalton. That never happened.

While I agree that the pandemic gives the Cowboys leverage, the extent of that leverage remains to be seen. No extension means no signing bonus for Dak. He gets paid only per game check this year. If games are cancelled, Dak loses paychecks and perhaps trust in his agent along with it. Then comes the salary cap reduction due to lost revenue. That’ll be the next interesting storyline in this negotiation.

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Short of a renegotiation of the CBA, if the NFL plays one game this year, Prescott gets his full pay.

JoaquinFenix said:

Please note that the theme of the original post was what Dallas could’ve done differently, not what they did right.

Besides, I mentioned Dalton in item no. 3. What good is leverage, however, if you don’t use it? Dalton is on a 1-year deal, as is Dak. The time to use Dalton as leverage was when you rescinded the tag and showed Dak you’d be willing to roll with Dalton. That never happened.

While I agree that the pandemic gives the Cowboys leverage, the extent of that leverage remains to be seen. No extension means no signing bonus for Dak. He gets paid only per game check this year. If games are cancelled, Dak loses paychecks and perhaps trust in his agent along with it. Then comes the salary cap reduction due to lost revenue. That’ll be the next interesting storyline in this negotiation.

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Ohh..

I was just pointing out the flip to what you were underlining.

I agree with what you suggest. Just that there is more..

There is something a foot for us picking up some needed positive direction.

I would never imply this virus is a positive for us but one who would want to see the team take advantages possible to win.

McCarthy was very much a break for us. Jerrah running the draft and doing so well acquiring needed talent at affordable rates.

Now the virus slowing down all the still open mega-contracts like Daks that will certainly be lowered going forward.

This is celebratory stuff IMO.

JoaquinFenix said:

And, by all accounts, that's precisely the kind of offer that Dak rejected. So...

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he rejected the years.

Flamma said:

Good post overall, this is just the part I disagree with. I could be wrong, I'm just going by circumstantial evidence. The Commanders drafted at the number 2 position, right? If they were so interested in a QB why did they take a lineman? Why would a team go through all of the trouble of clearing up cap space to pay Dak all of that money when they had any QB on the board not named Burrow for the next 5 years relatively cheap? That doesn't make sense to me.

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I think the Commanders plan to roll with Haskins but I think they would have taken the opportunity to take the Cowboys' starting QB

kskboys said:

So, your solution is to simply grossly overpay players?

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It would be an overpay but I don't consider it a gross one. Dak is slated to make $37 million on a second tag. Just depends on how you feel about Dak and about the qb position in general. I am giving my opinion on one contract situation. I'm not saying every negotiation should play out the same way.

Reverend Conehead said:

I would agree that if someone calls Dak a "bus driver" that he's understating Dak's abilities. IMO Dak is a better quarterback than that. I think whatever outfit evaluated him as 12th best in the league got it right. He's not elite. He's not top 5, but it's totally fair to call him good or above average. I wouldn't say calling him a "bus driver" is hating on him, but I wouldn't call that an accurate assessment either. To me "bus driver" means a quarterback who's just good enough to get the job done by getting the ball to other talented players and not screwing things up in a conservative game plan. I think that describes Trent Dilfer, but I do believe Dak is better than he was.

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And that is fair for sure, I just have a hard time naming 12 QB's better than Dak, I can easily name 5 who are better right now..the rest it gets kinda murky between them. Not saying he is number 6 just saying the next six QB's at their level right now, kinda run together for me.

CowboyFrog said:

And that is fair for sure, I just have a hard time naming 12 QB's better than Dak, I can easily name 5 who are better right now..the rest it gets kinda murky between them. Not saying he is number 6 just saying the next six QB's at their level right now, kinda run together for me.

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If you look at almost every OBJECTIVE measure, Dak Prescott is a top 5-8 QB. It is the SUBJECTIVE measures where suddenly Dak is listed outside the top 10.

Yet, according to many here, Dak Prescott is somehow overrated.

Then again, they did hate Dak when he was the 77th highest paid QB producing top 10 stats so there's that.

CowboyFrog said:

And that is fair for sure, I just have a hard time naming 12 QB's better than Dak, I can easily name 5 who are better right now..the rest it gets kinda murky between them. Not saying he is number 6 just saying the next six QB's at their level right now, kinda run together for me.

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Very tough. Cousins, Stafford, Wentz, Garropolo, Tannehill, and even Goff. It's almost like there's a 6th place tie w/ about 7 or 8 different QB's. How is Kyler going to do w/ better weapons? How about Josh, can he overcome that annoying lack of accuracy? Daniel Jones was good for a rook, can he stop turning the ball over? Who knows what Darnold is. What's wrong w/ Carr, and why has he regressed? Can the old men still play?

Basically, it's hard to make a hard judgment on anyone after Maholmes right now, who BTW stunk up the super bowl for 3 1/2 qtrs. There's even arguments to be made that Matty and Stafford are in the top 5 at present, pending the play of Brady/Rodgers/Brees/Rothy/Rivers. All have shown signs they may be really close to done. No clear answer as to Dak's rating right now.

Sevenup3000 said:

If you look at almost every OBJECTIVE measure, Dak Prescott is a top 5-8 QB. It is the SUBJECTIVE measures where suddenly Dak is listed outside the top 10.

Yet, according to many here, Dak Prescott is somehow overrated.

Then again, they did hate Dak when he was the 77th highest paid QB producing top 10 stats so there's that.

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Not really.

Objective: Dak was 10th in QBR last season, and his team had an 8-8 record. His TD/INT ratio wasn't all that great. His comp% was 12th(If I counted right).

I know, I know, you can now argue some way or another, but those are all objective measures. So he's not top 8 in all objective measures.

ABQCOWBOY said:

They did.

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I believe the signed Demarco Murray at the time because they believed he was a good back, but they were appeasing who they thought was going to be their franchise player, Sam Bradford.

What everyone is really missing out on is this is this asterisk season.
The season to try and unload a contract or two, maybe even three,, depending on which team could be more, maybe NE would be buyers to grab another ring despite the asterisk.
They have what 7-8 opt outs?
Perfect time for a team in our situation to be playing this hand the way we are currently.
If we are dialed in with Dak, and MM believes he can actually win a ring this year with the this roster than MM stands firm and goes for it, but any team winning a SB this year will be anointed the pandemic asterisk.. like it or not thats how this season will go down with all the opt outs, nobody will give this season any credit.
Perfect time to move contracts and put your franchise if structured properly in place to really make some noise in upcoming drafts.
This is a young team, with young contracts, with players with high cap hits that could be realigned.
Players are opting out, some franchises might look at this as a prime time to do something historical, maybe even Cleveland.. who knows what takes place this year,, laugh today, cry tomorrow, if you pretend to know than you are fooling yourself in this day.

kskboys said:

Very tough. Cousins, Stafford, Wentz, Garropolo, Tannehill, and even Goff. It's almost like there's a 6th place tie w/ about 7 or 8 different QB's. How is Kyler going to do w/ better weapons? How about Josh, can he overcome that annoying lack of accuracy? Daniel Jones was good for a rook, can he stop turning the ball over? Who knows what Darnold is. What's wrong w/ Carr, and why has he regressed? Can the old men still play?

Basically, it's hard to make a hard judgment on anyone after Maholmes right now, who BTW stunk up the super bowl for 3 1/2 qtrs. There's even arguments to be made that Matty and Stafford are in the top 5 at present, pending the play of Brady/Rodgers/Brees/Rothy/Rivers. All have shown signs they may be really close to done. No clear answer as to Dak's rating right now.

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Given his team, Carr was pretty decent last year
101 rating
70% comp %
>4000 yards
21/8 TD/int

Not too bad. Curious to see how he'll do with new weapons.

The guy that looked truly great last year before finally, missing games (broke his iron man streak) was Stafford.

Lutonio said:

That sounds fair. He’s not up there will that crop of players who we know are Hall of Fame bound, but he’s far from a dumpster fire. The problem is getting him to accept a tier 2 contract.

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The thing is a contract a tier 1 QB signed a year or two years ago is no longer a tier 1 contract. For example, the contract extension Rodgers signed in 2018 is not reflective of what he might have got under 2019 or 2020 conditions. That's why Wentz and Goff got bigger extensions than Rodgers - not because they are considered better players, but because they negotiated more recently, and under different market conditions. Accordingly, if Dak had signed at or slightly above what Wentz and Goff got it wouldn't have been a tier 1 contract. I expect that a tier 1 contract today might average $4-5 million/year more than that.

OmerV said:

The thing is a contract a tier 1 QB signed a year or two years ago is no longer a tier 1 contract. For example, the contract extension Rodgers signed in 2018 is not reflective of what he might have got under 2019 or 2020 conditions. That's why Wentz and Goff got bigger extensions than Rodgers - not because they are considered better players, but because they negotiated more recently, and under different market conditions. Accordingly, if Dak had signed at or slightly above what Wentz and Goff got it wouldn't have been a tier 1 contract. I expect that a tier 1 contract today might average $4-5 million/year more than that.

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This ....its really not that hard to understand.....

Corso said:

Stevie is one of the worst public negotiators I have ever been witness to.

On Zeke: "Gurley's price is the floor"
Uh... he was the top paid RB at the time.
Constantly praising Dak, puffing him up and saying the deal will get done and NO, we're not looking in any other direction.
Got totally railroaded by DLaw...
The guy is always going to shoot his own team in the foot with that process.

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Completely agree.

It's as if they expect a discount for being nice about them to the media.

I never understood this line of thinking, only possibly because Jerry insists on being pals w the players, and the kid can't even counter him with a bad guy role, he has to follow in his steps.

The only way they get deals done is bending over backward.

Then they think random FA ought to come to Dallas on the cheap. For what reason I'm not sure. Maybe because they won Super Bowls 30 years ago? Not sure.

fivetwos said:

Completely agree.

It's as if they expect a discount for being nice about them to the media.

I never understood this line of thinking, only possibly because Jerry insists on being pals w the players, and the kid can't even counter him with a bad guy role, he has to follow in his steps.

The only way they get deals done is bending over backward.

Then they think random FA ought to come to Dallas on the cheap. For what reason I'm not sure. Maybe because they won Super Bowls 30 years ago? Not sure.

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My entire livelihood involves agent(s) negotiating my employment and if an employer comes along and sings my praises to the high heavens and yet doesn't want to pay me what I feel I deserve?
I don't want to work for that employer.
People can say I don't work under a salary cap, but I do. It's called a budget and those budgets are usually set.

Haven't had a CAA agent in years though.
Which is cool. I've been lazy as hell lately.

DFWJC said:

Given his team, Carr was pretty decent last year
101 rating
70% comp %
>4000 yards
21/8 TD/int

Not too bad. Curious to see how he'll do with new weapons.

The guy that looked truly great last year before finally, missing games (broke his iron man streak) was Stafford.

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Carr is one of the hardest to figure out in the NFL. Moreso than even Dak!!!!!!

fivetwos said:

Completely agree.

It's as if they expect a discount for being nice about them to the media.

I never understood this line of thinking, only possibly because Jerry insists on being pals w the players, and the kid can't even counter him with a bad guy role, he has to follow in his steps.

The only way they get deals done is bending over backward.

Then they think random FA ought to come to Dallas on the cheap. For what reason I'm not sure. Maybe because they won Super Bowls 30 years ago? Not sure.

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Their offer was NOT at ALL a discount
Come on

OmerV said:

The thing is a contract a tier 1 QB signed a year or two years ago is no longer a tier 1 contract. For example, the contract extension Rodgers signed in 2018 is not reflective of what he might have got under 2019 or 2020 conditions. That's why Wentz and Goff got bigger extensions than Rodgers - not because they are considered better players, but because they negotiated more recently, and under different market conditions. Accordingly, if Dak had signed at or slightly above what Wentz and Goff got it wouldn't have been a tier 1 contract. I expect that a tier 1 contract today might average $4-5 million/year more than that.

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Disagree. A tier one contract is a tier one contract.

kskboys said:

Disagree. A tier one contract is a tier one contract.

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So, the 4 year, $72 million contract Tom Brady signed in 2010 would still be tier 1 today?