Turning from tanking

Rockport · Nov 16, 2020

big dog cowboy said:
Winning the East only means the Cowboys will get killed in the playoffs and be one and done. Again.

Not advocating tanking, but I want the higher draft picks.

You’re talking out both sides your mouth like many others. You can’t have it both ways. Bow up and take a damn stance.

DandyDon52 · Nov 17, 2020

big dog cowboy said:
Winning the East only means the Cowboys will get killed in the playoffs and be one and done. Again.

Not advocating tanking, but .

I see 2 flaws in what your saying,
1 but I want the higher draft picks.....you wont be doing the picking lol that will be up to the 3 stooges, aka the jones boys.
So what your really saying is I want the higher draft picks for the 3 stooges, because I know they will make some good picks and get some impact players.

2 the Cowboys will get killed in the playoffs......the flaw here is this is the nfl , you never know, and everyone here thought steelers would kill the cowboys,
yet with gilbert, the cowboys led the whole game, and almost won. And that was against the only unbeaten team in nfl.
and on top of that it would not be hard to equal or surpass what the 2014 and 2016 team did in the playoffs,

America's Cowboy · Nov 17, 2020

CouchCoach said:
I changed from being a 16 game season fan to a fan of 16 1 game seasons some time back in order to get football back to where it was fun for me and every game wasn't about the standings because that robs a fan of victories.

It helps that my college team is the Razorbacks and watching them get victories this year has really stoked the fire that every game matters.

And this year has taught me that every chance to be happy, even for a little while, is a worthwhile endeavor. Winning is better than losing. Even losing with a motive.

I was on that "why bother wagon" and more about better draft picks and even started a thread about going for Lawrence but then something happened, it began to matter.

It matters that the Cowboys try to win the division, as rancid as it might be, that's still winning the division and keeping PHL from repeating and being the first to do that since they last did it 16 years ago.

The team still wants to play, they proved that in the last two games and they'll play to the gun. They're playing for this coaching staff and fellow teammates and that was in question just a month ago. They could have cratered with a rat in the root cellar but they didn't, they decided to play as hard as they can.

Doesn't matter the division is bad. Doesn't matter the winner will go one and done in the playoffs. It does matter that they go for the division.

I started flashing back to when all that mattered was winning this division and every division game was special, I miss that. I miss me on division game day because it just didn't get any better than that. And playing the Commanders on Thanksgiving Day is still special. It's still Cowboys and Indians on a day that is going to be unlike any Thanksgiving in past years for many.

So, all the teams are mediocre, do we not want the Cowboys to be the best of the mediocre? Doesn't winning the East matter?

Don't get me wrong, I want high picks just like you do and think this brain trust needs every little bit of help but as long as there is a chance to win the East and keep it from our rivals, I can't think tank. Once it doesn't matter? Yeah, tank away but as long as there's a chance, I say we take it. While you still see a chance, just take it.

That's the spirit, CC ol' buddy!

BTW, awesome oldie you posted!

GO COWBOYS!!!!! :thumbup:

PAPPYDOG · Nov 17, 2020

All the Dak-Trolls are selling winning dreams with no reward!
The only reason they want us to drop in the draft is for Jerry to Tag or sign Dak.
They never cared what is good for this franchise or if we win or lose it's all about Dak Dak Dak and more Dak.
.500 Ball with 1 playoff win is the claim to fame of their icon.....

SSoup · Nov 17, 2020

CouchCoach said:
It matters that the Cowboys try to win the division, as rancid as it might be, that's still winning the division and keeping PHL from repeating and being the first to do that since they last did it 16 years ago.

If Dallas wins the division, it's most likely with a 5-11 record. For the sake of comparison, the 5th overall pick in last year's draft went to a team with a 5-11 record. But teams who make the playoffs pick after all the non-playoff teams. So instead of picking 5th, we're picking 19th.

You're effectively saying the personal satisfaction of denying the Eagles a repeat of winning the division is enough that you're willing to trade down from the 5th overall pick for the 19th pick in exchange for literally NOTHING.

If you're Jerry Jones and you rake in money by getting to host a playoff game (price-gouging the fans and not having to really pay the players), maybe you're happy to trade the 5th pick for the 19th for a few bucks and nothing else. But that's about it.

Jerry will rake in money in the blowout loss in the 1st round of the playoffs. That's what trading down from 5th to 19th buys you. The Eagles probably go ahead and pick a good player with that high pick and are positioned to win another Super Bowl before we ever sniff one again (unless the Joneses all die in a plane crash or something). Way to stick it to the Eagles, I guess.

:facepalm:

Zman5 · Nov 17, 2020

Every year, I want them to make the playoffs. I don't care if they are one and done. To me making the playoffs important not just for the obvious reason. It's important for the players to get playoff experience.

Many players will tell you, playoff games are different than regular season games. They'll say it's a whole another level. I believe it's important as many players on the team to have that experience. I much rather make the playoffs and get as many players to get that experience than tank and trust this FO to do anything great with a high draft pick.

Go back and look at all the Cowboys' top 10 picks from past 10 years. Was Mo Claiborne worth using the 6th pick(trade up), or Zeke the 4th pick? T. Smith was the only one that was worth the top ten pick.

Bobhaze · Nov 17, 2020

To me, it’s less about winning the division, and more about finding more about what kind of young talent we have, and work to develop that.

That doesn’t mean I’m for intentional tanking- in fact I’ve always believed that approach is like injecting cancer into an already weak culture. We should try to win every game. But that effort should be made with a heavy dose of young players.

Since our 3-0 start last Sept, this team is 7-15. I know this organization (and many of our fans) seems to believe this team’s performance has hinged completely on the number of injuries we have suffered as THE reason we have sucked. But again, after last season’s hot start, this team was mostly healthy while skidding to a 5-8 finish.

Hate to say it, but I’m of the opinion this roster is average at best, even when healthy. IMO, we need to do a complete assessment of this roster’s talent the rest of the season, while working hard on having a great offseason around what it is trying to become under McCarthy. We need a great draft and free agency acquisition to improve this overall roster.

LACowboysFan1 · Nov 17, 2020

Bobhaze said:
Hate to say it, but I’m of the opinion this roster is average at best, even when healthy.

Oh no doubt, though I would have to say it's still better than a lot of other teams, overall. May also be that it's not that our overall talent isn't that good, rather our best players aren't that great. Like Dak, while I've always said he's above average, he's certainly not in the realm of Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes and Brees. Cooper is very good, but he's no Hopkins. Lawrence is very good, but no Bosa (when healthy). Then of course you have areas like defensive tackle and defensive backs, where I don't see anybody as more than average.

Still, an upgrade at DT, S and CB would go a long way towards getting this team back to contender status, again imho...

Diehardblues · Nov 17, 2020

Unfortunately it’s not going to matter. While I’ll still be rooting to play hard and win as many as we can , I don’t expect us to win more than a couple down the street here, if any

The seasons over IMO. And been over since before Halloween.

Bobhaze · Nov 17, 2020

LACowboysFan1 said:
Oh no doubt, though I would have to say it's still better than a lot of other teams, overall. May also be that it's not that our overall talent isn't that good, rather our best players aren't that great. Like Dak, while I've always said he's above average, he's certainly not in the realm of Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes and Brees. Cooper is very good, but he's no Hopkins. Lawrence is very good, but no Bosa (when healthy). Then of course you have areas like defensive tackle and defensive backs, where I don't see anybody as more than average.

Still, an upgrade at DT, S and CB would go a long way towards getting this team back to contender status, again imho...

I would say this roster, when healthy, is somewhere between 12th (at best) and 25th (at worst). The defensive roster alone is really bad compared to most teams. IMO, our fans (myself included) always look at the talent through the lens of “fan glasses” which means we have a tendency to overrate players simply because a star is on their helmet.

LACowboysFan1 · Nov 17, 2020

Diehardblues said:
Unfortunately it’s not going to matter. While I’ll still be rooting to play hard and win as many as we can , I don’t expect us to win more than a couple down the street here, if any

The seasons over IMO. And been over since before Halloween.

Agreed, if we could look forward to a return by Frederick, Smith, Collins, Jarwin and especially Dak in the coming weeks, there might be a chance at improving measurably, but alas, that's not happening...

LACowboysFan1 · Nov 17, 2020

Bobhaze said:
I would say this roster, when healthy, is somewhere between 12th (at best) and 25th (at worst). The defensive roster alone is really bad compared to most teams. IMO, our fans (myself included) always look at the taint through the lens of “fan glasses” which means we have a tendency to overrate players simply because a star is on their helmet.

Agreed, really hard to rank teams on overall talent, many players can't play well without help, how good can a receiver be if his quarterback is poor, the line is poor and the other receivers are poor (not saying that's the case at Dallas)? But even at 12th, that makes them better than 20 teams, which is in my definition is "a lot"...

LACowboysFan1 · Nov 17, 2020

Bobhaze said:
I would say this roster, when healthy, is somewhere between 12th (at best) and 25th (at worst). The defensive roster alone is really bad compared to most teams. IMO, our fans (myself included) always look at the talent through the lens of “fan glasses” which means we have a tendency to overrate players simply because a star is on their helmet.

Though I do think the severe shortcoming at DT is a big part of the problem with the defense, the DEs can get routed outside or past the quarterback, without a push up the middle. Improve the DT play and the DEs, LBs and DBs would do better, raising the overall play of the defense...

CouchCoach · Nov 17, 2020

TequilaCowboy said:
Winning the NFC Least is not my main concern or something to hang your hat on..... heck even JJ doesn't hang any NFC E division winner banners i don't think. SB banners is what its about man.... have we lowered the bar so much.? Oh wait, 25 years will do that to you. NO ONE is going to respect the nfc east winner anyway so who cares who wins it this year.

Just watching for entertainment purposes only..

I do, my season has been reduced to winning it and keeping the other East teams form doing so.

SB banners? The last one hung in 1995, why are you still here? That's like being a SB or bust fan with the Browns and Lions.

CATCH17 · Nov 17, 2020

Tank.. You got the #3 pick. That is more valuable then anything this season will offer us.

Being mediocre is the worst thing that can happen to this team for our future. Especially with a fat QB contract on the way.

pancakeman · Nov 17, 2020

SSoup said:
If Dallas wins the division, it's most likely with a 5-11 record. For the sake of comparison, the 5th overall pick in last year's draft went to a team with a 5-11 record. But teams who make the playoffs pick after all the non-playoff teams. So instead of picking 5th, we're picking 19th.

You're effectively saying the personal satisfaction of denying the Eagles a repeat of winning the division is enough that you're willing to trade down from the 5th overall pick for the 19th pick in exchange for literally NOTHING

And (just to be clear of the stakes) you’re making that same half-round drop in every round thereafter too.

LACowboysFan1 · Nov 17, 2020

CATCH17 said:
Tank.. You got the #3 pick. That is more valuable then anything this season will offer us.

Being mediocre is the worst thing that can happen to this team for our future. Especially with a fat QB contract on the way.

The #3 pick is no doubt valuable, but the Cowboys have needs in many areas. There will be top players available past no. 3, the only real concern is if you desperately need (or want) say, a safety, and there are only 1 or 2 really great prospects, and they're picked before you get to draft, you're not able to address that position as well as you would like. But even if that happens, and you get to pick some other position with like the number 4, 5, or even 10th pick, you're still making a great improvement (if he pans out) on your team.

So I'm not too concerned that we won't get to pick in the top-5 or such, top 10 will still be extremely valuable to the Cowboys...

CATCH17 · Nov 17, 2020

LACowboysFan1 said:
The #3 pick is no doubt valuable, but the Cowboys have needs in many areas. There will be top players available past no. 3, the only real concern is if you desperately need (or want) say, a safety, and there are only 1 or 2 really great prospects, and they're picked before you get to draft, you're not able to address that position as well as you would like. But even if that happens, and you get to pick some other position with like the number 4, 5, or even 10th pick, you're still making a great improvement (if he pans out) on your team.

So I'm not too concerned that we won't get to pick in the top-5 or such, top 10 will still be extremely valuable to the Cowboys...

Then trade down with the #3 pick.

I’ll take a franchise tackle over a win this weekend.

I’ll take an extra first round pick to trade down with a QB hungry team.

This season is a lost cause and winning hurts our future.

Taking Ls today for Ws tomorrow is the move. Hopefully we can get a bit ahead of schedule with the addition of Gregory and some premium draft picks.

LACowboysFan1 · Nov 17, 2020

Zman5 said:
Every year, I want them to make the playoffs. I don't care if they are one and done. To me making the playoffs important not just for the obvious reason. It's important for the players to get playoff experience.

Many players will tell you, playoff games are different than regular season games. They'll say it's a whole another level. I believe it's important as many players on the team to have that experience. I much rather make the playoffs and get as many players to get that experience than tank and trust this FO to do anything great with a high draft pick.

Go back and look at all the Cowboys' top 10 picks from past 10 years. Was Mo Claiborne worth using the 6th pick(trade up), or Zeke the 4th pick? T. Smith was the only one that was worth the top ten pick.

Though on Claiborne, his missing so many games to injuries makes it hard to really evaluate his value as the 6th pick. Then he got the horrible Jets, hard for anybody to do well on that team...

LACowboysFan1 · Nov 17, 2020

CATCH17 said:
Then trade down with the #3 pick.

I’ll take a franchise tackle over a win this weekend.

I’ll take an extra first round pick to trade down with a QB hungry team.

This season is a lost cause and winning hurts our future.

Taking Ls today for Ws tomorrow is the move. Hopefully we can get a bit ahead of schedule with the addition of Gregory and some premium draft picks.

If I can get another first round pick, even at no. 32, and have the no. 6 and no. 32, I'm jumping all over that...

Turning from tanking

Rockport

AmberBeer

DandyDon52

Well-Known Member

America's Cowboy

Well-Known Member

PAPPYDOG

There are no Dak haters just Cowboy lovers!!!

SSoup

Well-Known Member

Zman5

Well-Known Member

Bobhaze

LACowboysFan1

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Diehardblues

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Bobhaze

LACowboysFan1

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LACowboysFan1

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LACowboysFan1

Well-Known Member

CouchCoach

CATCH17

1st Round Pick

pancakeman

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LACowboysFan1

Well-Known Member

CATCH17

1st Round Pick

LACowboysFan1

Well-Known Member

LACowboysFan1

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