Turning from tanking

[CouchCoach]

If Dallas wins the division, it's most likely with a 5-11 record. For the sake of comparison, the 5th overall pick in last year's draft went to a team with a 5-11 record. But teams who make the playoffs pick after all the non-playoff teams. So instead of picking 5th, we're picking 19th.

You're effectively saying the personal satisfaction of denying the Eagles a repeat of winning the division is enough that you're willing to trade down from the 5th overall pick for the 19th pick in exchange for literally NOTHING.

If you're Jerry Jones and you rake in money by getting to host a playoff game (price-gouging the fans and not having to really pay the players), maybe you're happy to trade the 5th pick for the 19th for a few bucks and nothing else. But that's about it.

Jerry will rake in money in the blowout loss in the 1st round of the playoffs. That's what trading down from 5th to 19th buys you. The Eagles probably go ahead and pick a good player with that high pick and are positioned to win another Super Bowl before we ever sniff one again (unless the Joneses all die in a plane crash or something). Way to stick it to the Eagles, I guess.

You are aware that the owners share the playoff revenue? They're the only pro sports that does that, little advantage to the owner except for parking. However, the owner does not have to pay the players for playoff games so his expenses are reduced.

Soupy, all depends on your level of disgust with the Eagles. They last repeated in 2004 and since then no other team has repeated and I'd really like for them not to do that again.

The East matters, especially to a fan since the 60's, my favorite memories usually involve the East divisional games. I think the Cowboys-Commanders is the best rivalry in the history of the NFL, only thing that ever came close was KC-OAK back in the day. Not even CHI-GB could equal DAL-WAS and the DAL rivalries with the other two evolved into almost as good as WAS.

The East sucks, I agree but I still want to win it. I don't even care about the playoff game and that draft pick is an unknown anyway, the last top 5 pick pay off?

Some are acting like a high pick is a guarantee and it is far from it. Take what you can get while you can get it.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Using the "Jimmy Johnson" chart, no. 3 this year is worth 2200 "points", where as the no. 6 is 1600 and the no. 31 is 600, so while teams don't go strictly by the chart, it shows that we could trade the no. 3 and get the 6 and the 31st. Have to have other teams "go along" with that of course, but just an example...

 

[Ranching]

I changed from being a 16 game season fan to a fan of 16 1 game seasons some time back in order to get football back to where it was fun for me and every game wasn't about the standings because that robs a fan of victories.

It helps that my college team is the Razorbacks and watching them get victories this year has really stoked the fire that every game matters.

And this year has taught me that every chance to be happy, even for a little while, is a worthwhile endeavor. Winning is better than losing. Even losing with a motive.

I was on that "why bother wagon" and more about better draft picks and even started a thread about going for Lawrence but then something happened, it began to matter.

It matters that the Cowboys try to win the division, as rancid as it might be, that's still winning the division and keeping PHL from repeating and being the first to do that since they last did it 16 years ago.

The team still wants to play, they proved that in the last two games and they'll play to the gun. They're playing for this coaching staff and fellow teammates and that was in question just a month ago. They could have cratered with a rat in the root cellar but they didn't, they decided to play as hard as they can.

Doesn't matter the division is bad. Doesn't matter the winner will go one and done in the playoffs. It does matter that they go for the division.

I started flashing back to when all that mattered was winning this division and every division game was special, I miss that. I miss me on division game day because it just didn't get any better than that. And playing the Commanders on Thanksgiving Day is still special. It's still Cowboys and Indians on a day that is going to be unlike any Thanksgiving in past years for many.

So, all the teams are mediocre, do we not want the Cowboys to be the best of the mediocre? Doesn't winning the East matter?

Don't get me wrong, I want high picks just like you do and think this brain trust needs every little bit of help but as long as there is a chance to win the East and keep it from our rivals, I can't think tank. Once it doesn't matter? Yeah, tank away but as long as there's a chance, I say we take it. While you still see a chance, just take it.

Àn old coach told me in 1991,,,,,, I don't want to win every game, I want to win the next game.
I've always coached like that. Of course, we made our season goals in the off season, but once the games started, that's how we approached it and that how I see it as a fan.

 

[Chuck 54]

IF I thought our defense was really going to play better and stay healthy the rest of the way...
IF I thought Diggs would be back for the playoffs and Chido wasn’t going to injure his hamstring again in the next week or two...
IF we were going to get at least one of our starting OT’s back this season...
IF Dak was returning at some point or I believed we had a legitimate QB to lead us in the playoffs...

Then I’d be all about winning the East with the goal of getting hot and maybe getting to the NFC championship game as the first team with a losing record (just like there was a first wild card team to get hot and win the SB).

Unfortunately, I don’t believe any of those things right now. If the team, and especially the QB, can somehow ignite my imagination over the next 3 weeks, then I might get silly.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

IF I thought our defense was really going to play better and stay healthy the rest of the way...
IF I thought Diggs would be back for the playoffs and Chido wasn’t going to injure his hamstring again in the next week or two...
IF we were going to get at least one of our starting OT’s back this season...
IF I Dak was returning at some point or I believed we had a legitimate QB to lead us in the playoffs...

Then I’d be all about winning the East with the goal of getting hot and maybe getting to the NFC championship game as the first team with a losing record (just like there was a first wild card team to get hot and win the SB.

Unfortunately, I don’t believe any of those things right now. If the team, and especially the QB, can somehow ignite my imagination over the next 3 weeks, then I might get silly.

Used to be for me winning the games got me excited, losing upset me quite a bit.

Now winning the game is more a "good game" but losing is "on to the next game".

Unless and until the Cowboys get back to being real SB contenders, I'll be keeping the current view....

 

[CouchCoach]

IF I thought our defense was really going to play better and stay healthy the rest of the way...
IF I thought Diggs would be back for the playoffs and Chido wasn’t going to injure his hamstring again in the next week or two...
IF we were going to get at least one of our starting OT’s back this season...
IF Dak was returning at some point or I believed we had a legitimate QB to lead us in the playoffs...

Then I’d be all about winning the East with the goal of getting hot and maybe getting to the NFC championship game as the first team with a losing record (just like there was a first wild card team to get hot and win the SB).

Unfortunately, I don’t believe any of those things right now. If the team, and especially the QB, can somehow ignite my imagination over the next 3 weeks, then I might get silly.

Chuckles, color me silly because keeping NY. PHL and WAS from winning it matters. I don't even care that Booger will see that as some validation.

I think if we're already leaning into 2021 then winning the East becomes even more important. New coaching staff, unique circumstances, too many injuries and they manage to win the East? A coaching staff and team can build on that.

The cutest puppy in an ugly litter is still the cutest puppy.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I changed from being a 16 game season fan to a fan of 16 1 game seasons some time back in order to get football back to where it was fun for me and every game wasn't about the standings because that robs a fan of victories.

It helps that my college team is the Razorbacks and watching them get victories this year has really stoked the fire that every game matters.

And this year has taught me that every chance to be happy, even for a little while, is a worthwhile endeavor. Winning is better than losing. Even losing with a motive.

I was on that "why bother wagon" and more about better draft picks and even started a thread about going for Lawrence but then something happened, it began to matter.

It matters that the Cowboys try to win the division, as rancid as it might be, that's still winning the division and keeping PHL from repeating and being the first to do that since they last did it 16 years ago.

The team still wants to play, they proved that in the last two games and they'll play to the gun. They're playing for this coaching staff and fellow teammates and that was in question just a month ago. They could have cratered with a rat in the root cellar but they didn't, they decided to play as hard as they can.

Doesn't matter the division is bad. Doesn't matter the winner will go one and done in the playoffs. It does matter that they go for the division.

I started flashing back to when all that mattered was winning this division and every division game was special, I miss that. I miss me on division game day because it just didn't get any better than that. And playing the Commanders on Thanksgiving Day is still special. It's still Cowboys and Indians on a day that is going to be unlike any Thanksgiving in past years for many.

So, all the teams are mediocre, do we not want the Cowboys to be the best of the mediocre? Doesn't winning the East matter?

Don't get me wrong, I want high picks just like you do and think this brain trust needs every little bit of help but as long as there is a chance to win the East and keep it from our rivals, I can't think tank. Once it doesn't matter? Yeah, tank away but as long as there's a chance, I say we take it. While you still see a chance, just take it.

If you cant handle the pain of losing games for the better of the team then you simply arent a devoted enough fan.

If getting a higher pick to help catapult the rebuilding of the team isnt important enough then you are just a casual, fair weather, pom pom waving self centered fan.

Honestly............................you can have a great time watching the game and rooting for a loss. If you TRULY love the team then getting blown out can become fun. When the other team scores or we make turnovers just imagine that all of it is killing Jerry Jones. Who essentially is killing the Cowboys. Look at it as teaching him a valuable lesson that he sucks at what he does.

IF we get a top 2 or 3 pick then it has the potential to really really turn around this franchise in one or two years. But I guess you dont really care about that. You would just like to wave your pom poms a few more times this year so you can enjoy your beer drinking a little more. Pathetic really.

 

[CouchCoach]

Used to be for me winning the games got me excited, losing upset me quite a bit.

Now winning the game is more a "good game" but losing is "on to the next game".

Unless and until the Cowboys get back to being real SB contenders, I'll be keeping the current view....

Yep, with you there, not much passion but I can still muster some for the East because of that history.

With the tanking, all they take is an unknown draft pick into 2021. Win the East and we deny the other 3 and our fans quite possibly watching Garrett clapping on the sideline all dressed up in a blue parka.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I been saying that all season long.
I will root for wins as long as they are mathematically alive.
However, losses will not make me lose any sleep.

Your either not devoted enough to the team or your not wise enough to see how winning the division with 6 wins and getting the 23rd pick doesnt mean diddly. What, so you can get one good jab at your Eagles friends? Trust me, they will be laughing in your face on draft day when they take the guy you wanted. Kinda like we did to them this year by taking Lamb 2 picks before them.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I get that and I was there as well. But if getting killed in the playoffs and not seeing another East team doing that is the best this season can deliver, I will take it. Each season begins with win the East. Since when has it begun with advance in the playoffs?

So you don't have the mental ability to understand or see how a top 3 or 5 draft pick isnt "the best thing this season can deliver"?

 

[LACowboysFan1]

If you cant handle the pain of losing games for the better of the team then you simply arent a devoted enough fan.

If getting a higher pick to help catapult the rebuilding of the team isnt important enough then you are just a casual, fair weather, pom pom waving self centered fan.

Honestly............................you can have a great time watching the game and rooting for a loss. If you TRULY love the team then getting blown out can become fun. When the other team scores or we make turnovers just imagine that all of it is killing Jerry Jones. Who essentially is killing the Cowboys. Look at it as teaching him a valuable lesson that he sucks at what he does.

IF we get a top 2 or 3 pick then it has the potential to really really turn around this franchise in one or two years. But I guess you dont really care about that. You would just like to wave your pom poms a few more times this year so you can enjoy your beer drinking a little more. Pathetic really.

Doesn't happen all the time, but most of the time it's winning breeds winning and losing breed losing. We gripe about our Cowboys, just imagine how a Jets fan feels? We've been 25 years without a SB win, this will make FIFTY ONE years without one. Is it realistic to say that after 30, 35 or 40 or more years with no titles the Jets have bred themselves into a team that has no desire to win? Doubt it. Do Jets fans root every year to lose games so they can get that no. 1 or 2 or 3 pick the next year? Again, I doubt it, they've had that pick numerous times and it's not gotten them a ring, or even in the big game.

Just don't like losing, even if it's "well, on to the next game", that's not the same as being glad they lost just to have a chance at a higher draft pick.

I get your view, just don't share it. To each his own..

 

[CowboyRoy]

Getting to first base is always better than not getting on base.

Not if NOT getting to first base means you get to draft the next Babe Ruth. Im actually shocked that so many of you cant see the overwhelming benefits of losing.

 

[starfan1]

If you cant handle the pain of losing games for the better of the team then you simply arent a devoted enough fan.

If getting a higher pick to help catapult the rebuilding of the team isnt important enough then you are just a casual, fair weather, pom pom waving self centered fan.

Honestly............................you can have a great time watching the game and rooting for a loss. If you TRULY love the team then getting blown out can become fun. When the other team scores or we make turnovers just imagine that all of it is killing Jerry Jones. Who essentially is killing the Cowboys. Look at it as teaching him a valuable lesson that he sucks at what he does.

IF we get a top 2 or 3 pick then it has the potential to really really turn around this franchise in one or two years. But I guess you dont really care about that. You would just like to wave your pom poms a few more times this year so you can enjoy your beer drinking a little more. Pathetic really.

what makes him or her pathetic and not you? What makes his or her stance wrong and not yours? Just because they don't think like you? You are certainly free to believe that the cowboys getting blown out and resulting in top 5 is best for the cowboys if you truly believe that kudos then you have a faith in the front office that I don't.

I believe that picking at 17 or 3 there is skeptical beliefs that the cowboys may not do the right thing. As long as the Cowboys are mathematically alive they fight and fortunately we play in the worst division i can ever remember. Id like the prospect of a high draft pick and trade down if we can find a dance partner but the jones boys has let the world know they aren't drafting a QB. Id like more the prospect of the cowboys accidently winning the division and going to the playoffs for a reset

 

[Reverend Conehead]

Winning the East only means the Cowboys will get killed in the playoffs and be one and done. Again.

Not advocating tanking, but I want the higher draft picks.

Yes, the NFC East title this year is a booby prize.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Doesn't happen all the time, but most of the time it's winning breeds winning and losing breed losing. We gripe about our Cowboys, just imagine how a Jets fan feels? We've been 25 years without a SB win, this will make FIFTY ONE years without one. Is it realistic to say that after 30, 35 or 40 or more years with no titles the Jets have bred themselves into a team that has no desire to win? Doubt it. Do Jets fans root every year to lose games so they can get that no. 1 or 2 or 3 pick the next year? Again, I doubt it, they've had that pick numerous times and it's not gotten them a ring, or even in the big game.

Just don't like losing, even if it's "well, on to the next game", that's not the same as being glad they lost just to have a chance at a higher draft pick.

I get your view, just don't share it. To each his own..

Losing can breed change, which is most needed here. No shame in losing with all these injuries. 1/3 to half of the players on this team arent even going to be here in two years. They need to go. That usually doesnt happen with winning.

The Jets are a completely different animal. Cowboys rarely pick in the top 5 or even top 10.

Yah, to each is own, I just dont understand the other side.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Your either not devoted enough to the team or your not wise enough to see how winning the division with 6 wins and getting the 23rd pick doesnt mean diddly. What, so you can get one good jab at your Eagles friends? Trust me, they will be laughing in your face on draft day when they take the guy you wanted. Kinda like we did to them this year by taking Lamb 2 picks before them.

I want my team to win the SB above all else. Love picking at the Eagles or Giants or R******s fans when I beat them, or win the SB and they don't. But that's secondary to winning overall, it's just that hoping they lose, or being glad they lose, goes against my basic nature, even if losing puts me in a better draft position. Like I said, there's plenty of needs on the Cowboys, even the 19th pick will really help the team, if the player pans out....

 

[CowboyRoy]

what makes him or her pathetic and not you? What makes his or her stance wrong and not yours? Just because they don't think like you? You are certainly free to believe that the cowboys getting blown out and resulting in top 5 is best for the cowboys if you truly believe that kudos then you have a faith in the front office that I don't.

I believe that picking at 17 or 3 there is skeptical beliefs that the cowboys may not do the right thing. As long as the Cowboys are mathematically alive they fight and fortunately we play in the worst division i can ever remember. Id like the prospect of a high draft pick and trade down if we can find a dance partner but the jones boys has let the world know they aren't drafting a QB. Id like more the prospect of the cowboys accidently winning the division and going to the playoffs for a reset

Thats may take. If you cant root for a loss then you arent devoted enough. Fans that still want to win seem to want it for their own ego even if it hurts the team. To me that signals a lack devotion. True devotion includes personal sacrifice. Tolerating the losses is that personal sacrifice. Nothing more than a simple change of mind frame. If certain fans cant do that, then it also shows something else as well.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Losing can breed change, which is most needed here.

Win or lose, it's still the same owners, losing will NOT result in change on the Cowboys, hasn't in 25 years...

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Losing can breed change, which is most needed here. No shame in losing with all these injuries. 1/3 to half of the players on this team arent even going to be here in two years. They need to go. That usually doesnt happen with winning.

The Jets are a completely different animal. Cowboys rarely pick in the top 5 or even top 10.

Yah, to each is own, I just dont understand the other side.

I understand both sides' view, I think you do too, understanding and agreeing aren't the same thing, don't be so hard on yourself

 

[CouchCoach]

If you cant handle the pain of losing games for the better of the team then you simply arent a devoted enough fan.

If getting a higher pick to help catapult the rebuilding of the team isnt important enough then you are just a casual, fair weather, pom pom waving self centered fan.

Honestly............................you can have a great time watching the game and rooting for a loss. If you TRULY love the team then getting blown out can become fun. When the other team scores or we make turnovers just imagine that all of it is killing Jerry Jones. Who essentially is killing the Cowboys. Look at it as teaching him a valuable lesson that he sucks at what he does.

IF we get a top 2 or 3 pick then it has the potential to really really turn around this franchise in one or two years. But I guess you dont really care about that. You would just like to wave your pom poms a few more times this year so you can enjoy your beer drinking a little more. Pathetic really.

I prefer whiskey but that doesn't mean I can't get pathetic on whiskey.

Funny, in your World According to Roy how you've got it all figured out what makes a fan.

Tell me, Roy the Joy Boy, did you participate in the "Going for Lawrence" thread? Well, that was mine and all about being the glorious text book fan you are and being as bad as we can be in order to get Lawrence to over come Booger's ineptitude as a GM.

However, as I began to really think about that, I decided that winning the East might be better because I saw signs of life from this team. They don't seem to care that the division is one of the worst on record or that they're last in it. They see a chance to take it. They ignored the attempt of the rat in the root cellar to cause the team to come undone and that actually played like a team against PIT.

Any team willing to get off their butt and put that together, doesn't need to be thinking about tanking for the future because the future for some of them is now.

And considering I am up there in years, the now matters more than the future. Hell, I might not even be around for next season so grab the gusto of a 5-11 division triumph and ride that to glory.

I am still laughing at "teaching him a valuable lesson that he sucks at what he does". The man already admitted he should have fired himself. I think he knows.

As far as being a self centered fan, aren't we all?