Was Larry Allen or Bob Lilly the greatest cowboy

Diehardblues said:

Allen no doubt most dominating Cowboys OL and we’ve had a bunch but greatest player. Not how I see it. And not any fans I know.

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I would love to see Allen go up against Lilly or White in practice. It would just be fun to watch. I know it could not be done but can you imagine the battles that they would have.

Bigdog said:

I would love to see Allen go up against Lilly or White in practice. It would just be fun to watch. I know it could not be done but can you imagine the battles that they would have.

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It’s really difficult to compare different eras especially with size, speed of athletes plus the facilities , condition of fields, etc. They were part time athletes back then.

What we can compare is their achievements.

Pantone282C said:

Also, Cornell Green, one hell of a tackler.
Landry was one of the greatest cornerbacks to ever play - 32 interceptions in 80 games.

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Yep although Cornell was more of a safety wasn’t he?

Bob Lilly...... to steal Jones's fawning of Jaylon.....was the cornerstone of the original Doomsday.....he was the defensive leader as Roger was the offensive leader....those who didnt get to see him play missed an athletic marvel. .

Diehardblues said:

Yep although Cornell was a safety wasn’t he?

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Moved from corner to safety after 8 seasons. Made the Pro Bowl at both positions. 34 INTs - sixth all time for Cowboys.

Edited

Both Lilly and Allen were 11 time Pro Bowlers and 7 time All Pros. My hunch without looking it up was no one else in Cowboys history matched that.

CouchCoach said:

If the title Mr. Cowboy extends to every Cowboy, I have only one choice, The Man in the Hat. The only other person to embody what his team meant and to define it was Vince Lombardi, in my mind.

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Say it the way Staubach would, The Man in the Funny Hat

JW82 said:

IMO It's hard to argue against the all time leading rusher in NFL history...

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All Pro Years:
4 Emmitt
6 Allen
7 Lily

Career rushing yards isn't the greatest stat to measure greatness. Frank Gore is currently #3, and might pass Payton to take #2 this year. He's not a top 10 back all time. Not top 20.

Diehardblues said:

It’s really difficult to compare different eras especially with size, speed of athletes plus the facilities , condition of fields, etc. They were part time athletes back then.

What we can compare is their achievements.

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Always normalize vs. their contemporaries.

Diehardblues said:

If you think you can read or watch and come away with what the impact was more than actually living thru it and experiencing , then you have much to learn.

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In a few months I'll be 50.
NFL Films has a plethora of video. I may be one of a very few that has
watched them all.

Your thinking is shallow. It is you who has much to learn.
Your comments paint you as the typical grumpy old man.

Diehardblues said:

Well done Rogers.!! Sheer talent and athletic ability doesn’t define greatest.

I think most fans that at least witnessed both eras would have a difficult time not placing Roger Staubach and Emmitt Smith as the two of if not the greatest Cowboys of all time. And they weren’t the two most talented.

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I personally would put Lilly in that group too. I don't think you could go wrong with any of those three, but for me it's Staubach, not just because of the talent and the accomplishments, but he was the unquestioned leader and the guy everyone rallied around. And he was, and I believe still is, the single greatest face of the franchise.

Diehardblues said:

It’s really difficult to compare different eras especially with size, speed of athletes plus the facilities , condition of fields, etc. They were part time athletes back then.

What we can compare is their achievements.

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Yeah I know that but just imagine if they were on the same team at the same time. It would be an interesting practice just to watch them compete against each other. That is all that I am saying.

RoboQB said:

In a few months I'll be 50.
NFL Films has a plethora of video. I may be one of a very few that has
watched them all.

Your thinking is shallow. It is you who has much to learn.
Your comments paint you as the typical grumpy old man.

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Now you’re resorting to personal attacks to discredit my opinion.

You simply don’t have respect for those who have experienced and witnessed more.

Diehardblues said:

Both Lilly and Allen were 11 time Pro Bowlers and 7 time All Pros. My hunch without looking it up was no one else in Cowboys history matched that.

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Pro Football Reference actually lists Allen with 10 Pro Bowls and Jason Witten with 11 Pro Bowls (but only 2 first team.)
Their (shortened) list of first team All Pros:

First-team All-Pro Years
Bob Lilly DT-DE 7 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1971
Randy White DT-LB-DE 7 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985
Larry Allen G-T 6 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001
Chuck Howley LB 5 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970
Emmitt Smith RB 4 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995
DeMarcus Ware LB 4 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011
Jason Witten TE 2 2007, 2010
Zack Martin G 4 2014, 2016, 2018, 2019

Pro Bowl Years
Bob Lilly DT-DE 11 1962, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973
Randy White DT-LB-DE 9 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985
Larry Allen G-T 10 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005
Chuck Howley LB 6 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1971
Emmitt Smith RB 8 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1998, 1999
DeMarcus Ware LB 7 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
Jason Witten TE 11 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2017
Zack Martin G 6 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
Cliff Harris DB 6 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979
Rayfield Wright T-TE 6 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976
Mel Renfro DB-RB 10 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973
Darren Woodson DB 5 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998
Cornell Green DB 5 1965, 1966, 1967, 1971, 1972
Tyron Smith OT 7 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
Deion Sanders DB-WR 4 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999

PJTHEDOORS said:

Emmitt for me. Never saw Lilly.

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ChronicCowboy said:

I didn’t have the privilege of watching Captain Comeback or Mr. Cowboy. The best player I’ve ever seen was Deion. Between 93 and 95 he was the most dominant force in the history of the game. He shut down half the field on defense, was a threat to return every punt for a TD and was an above average WR.

Larry is a close second for me...the most dominant lineman ever.

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Therein lies the conundrum: What era(s) \ timeframe have fans followed the franchise - LIVE....watching the team in real time. And how dominant\ great players decades ago will not resonate with NFL fans today because they will just look at the raw numbers and not take into account the many changes in the sport that skews their perception to judge them fairly.

OmerV said:

I personally would put Lilly in that group too. I don't think you could go wrong with any of those three, but for me it's Staubach, not just because of the talent and the accomplishments, but he was the unquestioned leader and the guy everyone rallied around. And he was, and I believe still is, the single greatest face of the franchise.

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He certainly is now. Although Coach earlier argued Landry was when he was alive. I tend to agree. Cant go wrong with either.

Pantone282C said:

Pro Football Reference actually lists Allen with 10 Pro Bowls and Jason Witten with 11 Pro Bowls (but only 2 first team.)
Their (shortened) list of first team All Pros:

First-team All-Pro Years
Bob Lilly DT-DE 7 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1971
Randy White DT-LB-DE 7 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985
Larry Allen G-T 6 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001
Chuck Howley LB 5 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970
Emmitt Smith RB 4 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995
DeMarcus Ware LB 4 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011
Jason Witten TE 2 2007, 2010
Zack Martin G 4 2014, 2016, 2018, 2019

Pro Bowl Years
Bob Lilly DT-DE 11 1962, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973
Randy White DT-LB-DE 9 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985
Larry Allen G-T 10 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005
Chuck Howley LB 6 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1971
Emmitt Smith RB 8 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1998, 1999
DeMarcus Ware LB 7 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
Jason Witten TE 11 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2017
Zack Martin G 6 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
Cliff Harris DB 6 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979
Rayfield Wright T-TE 6 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976
Mel Renfro DB-RB 10 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973
Darren Woodson DB 5 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998
Cornell Green DB 5 1965, 1966, 1967, 1971, 1972
Tyron Smith OT 7 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
Deion Sanders DB-WR 4 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999

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Nice work

Diehardblues said:

Now you’re resorting to personal attacks to discredit my opinion.

You simply don’t have respect for those who have experienced and witnessed more.

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You think, for example, that because you watched the Ice Bowl as it happened, that
makes you more knowledgeable than someone that watched the whole game on
film 20 years later. That's just dumb.

By the way, telling someone they have " much to learn" because they disagree with
you could be considered a personal attack.

We are talking about a sport here. Not The Great Depression. Not a World War.
So, maybe turn it down a notch, ol' fella.

Motorola said:

Therein lies the conundrum: What era(s) \ timeframe have fans followed the franchise - LIVE....watching the team in real time. And how dominant\ great players decades ago will not resonate with NFL fans today because they will just look at the raw numbers and not take into account the many changes in the sport that skews their perception to judge them fairly.

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Yep

I think it makes all the difference.

Motorola said:

Therein lies the conundrum: What era(s) \ timeframe have fans followed the franchise - LIVE....watching the team in real time. And how dominant\ great players decades ago will not resonate with NFL fans today because they will just look at the raw numbers and not take into account the many changes in the sport that skews their perception to judge them fairly.

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Good points and a fair way to assess greatness includes the eras - the way the game was played, the growth of the league, and player development are all in context. Perception is reality and goes beyond statistics.
I have watched (since the 60s) the league before and after Free Agency, rule changes, bigger and better stadiums, and commissioner changes. It all changed after Free Agency and capped salaries.