Was Larry Allen or Bob Lilly the greatest cowboy

[Motorola]

Pro Football Reference actually lists Allen with 10 Pro Bowls and Jason Witten with 11 Pro Bowls (but only 2 first team.)
Their (shortened) list of first team All Pros:

First-team All-Pro Years
Bob Lilly DT-DE 7 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1971
Randy White DT-LB-DE 7 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985
Larry Allen G-T 6 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001
Chuck Howley LB 5 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970
Emmitt Smith RB 4 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995
DeMarcus Ware LB 4 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011
Jason Witten TE 2 2007, 2010
Zack Martin G 4 2014, 2016, 2018, 2019

Pro Bowl Years
Bob Lilly DT-DE 11 1962, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973
Randy White DT-LB-DE 9 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985
Larry Allen G-T 10 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005
Chuck Howley LB 6 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1971
Emmitt Smith RB 8 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1998, 1999
DeMarcus Ware LB 7 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
Jason Witten TE 11 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2017
Zack Martin G 6 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
Cliff Harris DB 6 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979
Rayfield Wright T-TE 6 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976
Mel Renfro DB-RB 10 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973
Darren Woodson DB 5 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998
Cornell Green DB 5 1965, 1966, 1967, 1971, 1972
Tyron Smith OT 7 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
Deion Sanders DB-WR 4 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999

Pro Bowl selections are a credible measure of outstanding play.
But I have long valued NFL All-Pro Selection as a better measure. It is a vote by NFL beat writers that rate every position across the 32 teams.

 

[Diehardblues]

You think, for example, that because you watched the Ice Bowl as it happened, that
makes you more knowledgeable than someone that watched the whole game on
film 20 years later. That's just dumb.

By the way, telling someone they have " much to learn" because they disagree with
you could be considered a personal attack.

We are talking about a sport here. Not The Great Depression. Not a World War.
So, maybe turn it down a notch, ol' fella.

“ much to learn “ isn’t childish name calling.

And I didn’t say more knowledgeable . I said the impact and experience of living thru it.

Go back and reread my initial post you responded to in which the meaning was despite the knowledge I gained on the subject of the Great Depression it was my families experiences living thru it that truly brought my paper to life.

 

[Pantone282C]

Not hard to u

Pro Bowl selections are a credible measure of outstanding play.
But I have long valued NFL All-Pro Selection as a better measure. It is a vote by NFL. beat writers that rate every position across the 32 teams.

I agree. It's the penultimate of recognition. Very few selections can be successfully argued against.
HOF votes are a bit of a head scratcher sometimes, though.

 

[RoboQB]

“ much to learn “ isn’t childish name calling.

And I didn’t say more knowledgeable . I said the impact and experience of living thru it.

Calling your opinion shallow is an observation.
As is, bringing to your attention that your comments sound like
a grumpy old man. You are and you do. You're welcome.

What exactly did you "live through" that changes how pro football
was viewed? I don't need to live through Jim Brown's 9 years in the NFL
to know the 12,312 yards was the measurement to greatness for every RB.
Or that Don Hutson's 99 receiving TDs is possibly more impressive than Rice.
Or that Sid Luckman remains in the conversation as greatest Bears QB ever.

You most likely read about these accomplishments as they happened in your
weekly newspaper. I watched countless video and read books on these guys.
Odds are, I know more about them than you. Good day, kind sir.

 

[Diehardblues]

Calling your opinion shallow is an observation.
As is, bringing to your attention that your comments sound like
a grumpy old man. You are and you do. You're welcome.

What exactly did you "live through" that changes how pro football
was viewed? I don't need to live through Jim Brown's 9 years in the NFL
to know the 12,312 yards was the measurement to greatness for every RB.
Or that Don Hutson's 99 receiving TDs is possibly more impressive than Rice.
Or that Sid Luckman remains in the conversation as greatest Bears QB ever.

You most likely read about these accomplishments as they happened in your
weekly newspaper. I watched countless video and read books on these guys.
Odds are, I know more about them than you. Good day, kind sir.

Go back and reread my initial post you responded to in which the meaning was despite the knowledge I gained on the subject of the Great Depression it was my families experiences living thru it that truly brought my paper to life.

I’m not questioning your knowledge. Do you really believe you can know what the impact was in real time ?

As I originally stated. Regardless the knowledge one has without the real life experience it’s difficult to realize the impact and emotion whether it’s sporting event or American history.

Do Cowboy fans really believe watching old highlights that they’ll ever feel the emotion and impact it was in the moment losing the Ice Bowl, the Hail Mary pass or our 1st SB win, etc. Just like those who weren’t living when planes crashed into the World Trade Towers will ever feel the impact and experience of the moment. It has nothing to do with the knowledge of the event you may gain from studying.

 

[CouchCoach]

Not hard to u

I agree. It's the penultimate of recognition. Very few selections can be successfully argued against.
HOF votes are a bit of a head scratcher sometimes, though.

Not necessarily the same people voting for All Pro and HOF. The recognized All Pro is the AP one comprised of members of the AP. The HOF has members in each city and at large to comprise their voting members.

Rich Gosselin inherited the HOF role from Frank Luksa. I don't know who votes for All Pro.

 

[Chuck 54]

I watched them all play. Most had great moments, great careers. I never saw Bob Lilly NOT making plays. For a guy with few muscles and gangly as heck looking, he was unblockable.

 

[CouchCoach]

Calling your opinion shallow is an observation.
As is, bringing to your attention that your comments sound like
a grumpy old man. You are and you do. You're welcome.

What exactly did you "live through" that changes how pro football
was viewed? I don't need to live through Jim Brown's 9 years in the NFL
to know the 12,312 yards was the measurement to greatness for every RB.
Or that Don Hutson's 99 receiving TDs is possibly more impressive than Rice.
Or that Sid Luckman remains in the conversation as greatest Bears QB ever.

You most likely read about these accomplishments as they happened in your
weekly newspaper. I watched countless video and read books on these guys.
Odds are, I know more about them than you. Good day, kind sir.

None of my business but I think you're overreacting to the point he's making, It's the same as living through the 60's and studying them later, it's just a different experience.

Years from now they will still remember 9/11 but those of us that lived through that have a totally different experience, like my parents when Pearl Harbor was bombed. There are historians that have studied Pearl Harbor and are more informed and knowledgeable than most of the people who lived through that but the experience level is completely different.

I have watched the Ice Bowl and the Emmitt game several times but nothing matches the emotional experience of the first time through them, what's missing and can't be recaptured is the drama of the moment. Bart Starr going over Jerry Kramer is interesting now; it was devastating then.

There are just moments in time that are truly "you had to be there".

 

[Pantone282C]

Not necessarily the same people voting for All Pro and HOF. The recognized All Pro is the AP one comprised of members of the AP. The HOF has members in each city and at large to comprise their voting members.

Rich Gosselin inherited the HOF role from Frank Luksa. I don't know who votes for All Pro.

Thanks for clarification. I knew it was different. Should have said so. Still makes it difficult to appreciate their final selections.

 

[Diehardblues]

Pro Bowl selections are a credible measure of outstanding play.
But I have long valued NFL All-Pro Selection as a better measure. It is a vote by NFL beat writers that rate every position across the 32 teams.

All Pro is definitely a greater measurement that Pro Bowler which has become more of a popularity contest. But HOF is the ultimate recognition.

 

[CouchCoach]

I watched them all play. Most had great moments, great careers. I never saw Bob Lilly NOT making plays. For a guy with few muscles and gangly as heck looking, he was unblockable.

And he played the last part of his career with a back that most of these players today wouldn't have played with. The man actually took shots to practice if it was a critical game. He was in fear of losing his starting job. He was most likely Landry's favorite player that he ever coached and he was fearful of losing his starting job. That has always amazed me.

There were just coaches back then that had that hold on their team and they were fairly laid back men, Lombardi, Landry, Grant, Noll.

 

[Whirlwin]

He was the most iconic But Larry was dominate. I really don't think I can choose.

Bob Heads above all the rest. They call Mr. cowboy for a reason

 

[Motorola]

I’m not really sure unless you saw a player perform can we really make a fair comparison . And really all you can be is the best of your era.

Two of the greatest I saw play were Jim Brown and Earl Campbell. Tremendous talents and dominated their opponents.

Although I acknowleged the accomplishments of Jerry Rice, I unapologetically dispised the mantra -put forth mainly by ESPN, and the sports media lemmings followed through - that he is the greatest NFL player ever. "Skill position" label - absolutely hated that tag...because it devalued and minimized other positions on offense and defense because scoring touchdowns never was \ is a required statistic to analyse contributions on the field.
I
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[Turk]

All Pro is definitely a greater measurement that Pro Bowler which has become more of a popularity contest. But HOF is the ultimate recognition.

Pro Bowl has become a popularity contest for at least the last 10 years or so. Frankly now its pretty worthless since so many make that roster because others drop out.

 

[Diehardblues]

None of my business but I think you're overreacting to the point he's making, It's the same as living through the 60's and studying them later, it's just a different experience.

Years from now they will still remember 9/11 but those of us that lived through that have a totally different experience, like my parents when Pearl Harbor was bombed. There are historians that have studied Pearl Harbor and are more informed and knowledgeable than most of the people who lived through that but the experience level is completely different.

I have watched the Ice Bowl and the Emmitt game several times but nothing matches the emotional experience of the first time through them, what's missing and can be recaptured is the drama of the moment. Bart Starr going over Jerry Kramer is interesting now; it was devastating then.

There are just moments in time that are truly "you had to be there".

Yep

Has nothing to do with the knowledge. My reference he initially quoted was about how the impact and experience my family had in Great Depression brought my paper alive more than all of the knowledge I had researched and studied. Obviously he misinterpreted my meaning.
Thanks

 

[CWR]

Most difficult discussion ever.

I'm too young and missed Roger Staubach and Lily. Grew up seeing Emmitt Smith and Larry Allen. Emmitt is obviously one of the greatest RB's in history. Allen is one of the most dominate linemen in history. I would give Larry Allen a slight edge, remember him demolishing DT's.....but Emmitt would take over games too.

Impossible choice.

Agreed, I'll add if Deion Sanders was a career Cowboy he'd have to be in consideration. I dont believe the NFL has had another CB like him since he left. He nearly eliminated half the field. Also I know Michael Irvin doesn't have the numbers but that guy was awesome to watch. He was a competitor, and had that rare ability to ignite the entire team into a frenzy. I cant put him on the list, but I'll always love that guy. Life long Cowboy, to a fault lol. I was in high-school for the 90s dynasty and have an unfair bias for those guys. Im sure some of the boards elders will claim others.

 

[Turk]

Although I acknowleged the accomplishments of Jerry Rice, I unapologetically dispised the mantra -put forth mainly by ESPN, and the sports media lemmings followed through - that he is the greatest NFL player ever. "Skill position" label - absolutely hated that tag...because it devalued and minimized other positions on offense and defense because scoring touchdowns never was \ is a required statistic to analyse contributions on the field.
I
i

You can certainly argue with credibility that Jerry Rice is the greatest WR of all time; though he has a LOT of competition. Calling any player the greatest NFL player of all time is truly idiotic.

 

[Diehardblues]

Although I acknowleged the accomplishments of Jerry Rice, I unapologetically dispised the mantra -put forth mainly by ESPN, and the sports media lemmings followed through - that he is the greatest NFL player ever. "Skill position" label - absolutely hated that tag...because it devalued and minimized other positions on offense and defense because scoring touchdowns never was \ is a required statistic to analyse contributions on the field.
I
i

A great example of how the media can often glorify for the sake of production and promotion.

There is no “ greatest player ever”. It’s all speculative opinion based on facts, stats , emotions and experiences. And in the media’s case , for money)

 

[Diehardblues]

You can certainly argue with credibility that Jerry Rice is the greatest WR of all time; though he has a LOT of competition. Calling any player the greatest NFL player of all time is truly idiotic.

Yea, it’s just fun. Everybody has an opinion.

 

[Diehardblues]

Agreed, I'll add if Deion Sanders was a career Cowboy he'd have to be in consideration. I dont believe the NFL has had another CB like him since he left. He nearly eliminated half the field. Also I know Michael Irvin doesn't have the numbers but that guy was awesome to watch. He was a competitor, and had that rare ability to ignite the entire team into a frenzy. I cant put him on the list, but I'll always love that guy. Life long Cowboy, to a fault lol. I was in high-school for the 90s dynasty and have an unfair bias for those guys. Im sure some of the boards elders will claim others.

At least your honest with your era. I think it’s a common denominator. We all hold closer to our hearts the first greatness we witnessed. Or at least use it as our barometer.