Which Cowboys Doomsday Defense was greater?

big dog cowboy said:

It was always referred to as Doomsday Defense. Whenever they had a good game ESPN always called them that. I remember during super bowl week the big debate was, how was the Cowboys Doomsday Defense going to slow down Jim Kelly and the K-gun offense.

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Motorola said:

Go to Wikipedia - Doomsday Defense. The site article presents a detailed account of the seasons and players invovled, along with their individual career accomplishments.
'Wiki' even includes a mention as the 90's Cowboys teams being referred to -by some Cowboys fans- as "Doomsday III".
Not the be all and all; but another source of information to help Cowboys Fans to review (and for some of us.. remenisce) how the Dallas defense was one of the most dominating in 1960-70s era of the NFL .

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Diehardblues said:

Yea, but I don’t think it was ever indoctrinated in the same way Doomsday I and II were . There may have been some casual references.

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Flamma said:

Yeah Rome never covered the spread against Carthage until their last battle. In fact they lost games that they were heavily favored like those bum Colts in SB 3. Coach Scipio more than covered the spread in their final battle against Carthage in Africa.

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Shake_Tiller said:

Doomsday I was lead by prime Bob Lilly. George Andrie probably is the most underrated of all Cowboys. He was a great pass rusher. Jethro Pugh was a terrific DT. Willie Townes and later Larry Cole were good DEs when the game was played differently than it is now.

LB was where Doomsday I had a clear advantage -- prime Howley, Jordan and Dave Edwards. They were very active, smart LBs who forced a lot of turnovers. Howley was magnificent, and during the Golden age of MLBs, Jordan was one of the best.

The secondary had both prime Renfro and prime Cornell Greene, both of whom were outstanding. Renfro is the best DB the Cowboys have had, in my opinion. No disrespect to Deion, but he spent only a portion of his career in Dallas. Before a career altering injury, Mike Gaechter was a big-play safety. Dallas was usually short about one good DB, but Herb Adderly, even near the end of his career, nicely filled one hole.

Doomsday II countered Lilly with Randy White. Both great DTs, but I'd take Lilly by a thin margin. John Dutton was probably as good as Pugh, though likely not better. The DEs were more dominant, even taking Andrie into account. Harvey Martin was a sack artist, though Too Tall was probably the better overall player.

The LB corps wasn't quite as good, though Hollywood Henderson was spectacular and Bruenig was a solid player. Neither contributed as much as Howley and Jordan. And they didn't have a third guy like Dave Edwards.

The CBs weren't as good. Guys like Washington and Benny Barnes. Certainly there wasn't a Renfro in the house. But the safeties were amazing -- Harris and Waters -- and perfectly complemented each other. Harris was the best in the league, and Waters was a big play machine.

I guess I'd give a small edge to Doomsday I because Lilly and Renfro were Hall of Fame players, Howley certainly should be, and a case easily could be made for both Jordan and Cornell.

But Doomsday II makes it's own case with Hall of Famers White and Harris, and Martin and Jones who both should have a case.

Interestingly, both teams had a wildly underrated DE -- Andrie and Jones, respectively. Andrie would be remembered much differently if sacks had been an official stat during his career. Jones filled a different role than teams generally employ now. He was great against the run, tipped who knows now many passes and also controlled the screen game. He was a great, great player.

CB might tip the scale, and if Doomsday II had been stronger there, the Cowboys probably would have beaten the Steelers in one or both of the Super Bowls the two teams played.

So I am going with Doomsday I. But both were great defenses.

Landry felt that Lilly wasn't just the best DT but the best player in the league when he was in his prime. I tend to trust the judgment of the Man in the Hat.

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Scotman said:

I've watched virtually every game from birth (66) on. I couldn't agree more with your breakdown. Lilly and Renfro...man....do we need guys like that now.

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Shake_Tiller said:

Unfortunately (and wrongly), I think The Triplets and the great ball-control offense really overshadowed the defense as far as the national press went. Guys like Russell Maryland, Tony Tolbert, Casillas and Hennings seem to be an afterthought. Leon Lett is most known for his high-profile mental lapses. Kevin Smith is almost forgotten. Ken Norton is probably most remembered for his time with the 49ers.

The two Hall of Famers, Haley and Sanders, are only partially known for their time with the Cowboys. Woodson is still sadly excluded from the Hall of Fame.

I don't think the defense got it's due then, and I don't think it does now. Really a shame.

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Shake_Tiller said:

Mel Renfro, I could argue, was just about the original shutdown corner. After his first couple seasons, you'd watch games and he seemed almost invisible -- because teams just didn't throw at him. He threw a curtain over one side of the field.

I wish younger folks could fathom how good Renfro was. He isn't mentioned frequently when people talk about the greatest Cowboys, but he should be in the conversation. Outstanding player.

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Cowboysheelsreds053 said:

D1 is the one that crushed the Broncos!

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Shake_Tiller said:

Mel Renfro, I could argue, was just about the original shutdown corner. After his first couple seasons, you'd watch games and he seemed almost invisible -- because teams just didn't throw at him. He threw a curtain over one side of the field.

I wish younger folks could fathom how good Renfro was. He isn't mentioned frequently when people talk about the greatest Cowboys, but he should be in the conversation. Outstanding player.

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lwehlers said:

i have been watching a few of the 77 teams games on youtube and that version of the doomsday defense was the best cowboys defensive team. they were much better then the 92 and 93 teams. then again the 92 and 93 teams had a tougher time playing defense of the rule changes that helped out offenses more. i think that those three teams had the best seasons on defense.

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Diehardblues said:

And he was a great punt returner as well. Also worth noting is for 3 years (1970-72) we had another Hall of Famer on the other side with CB Herb Adderley who we picked up from Green Bay.

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Shake_Tiller said:

If I had to make a choice, I'd probably take the 71-72 defense that spearheaded the first Super Bowl victory over the Dolphins.

I believe that defense yielded something like a total of 18 points in three playoff games. And they churned out a lot of turnovers.

Lilly was on the outer edge of his prime, but still great. The LBs were in their prime, and Howley especially, was at the absolute top of his game.

Adderly was near the end but stabilized the CB position. And I think that is what separated that defense. Renfro was a superstar, and Adderly was still very good.

Have a look at Pro Football Reference. You could have mentioned that season in terms similar to the 85 Bears. The focus on Staubach (my favorite player) and Duane Thomas kind of caused the greatness of that season, from the defense, to be lost in the shuffle. But that defense was dang near impenetrable.

Lilly's back issues slowed him after that, and some of the old guard got old, but that was a remarkable defense.

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The Fonz said:

Doomsday 3 was last year led by the great and future HOF Jaylon Smith

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Diehardblues said:

Was it Doomsday I or Doomsday II ?

Id lean towards Doomsday I. But a good argument can be made for II.

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