Which Cowboys Doomsday Defense was greater?

Diehardblues

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Was it Doomsday I or Doomsday II ?

Id lean towards Doomsday I. But a good argument can be made for II.
 

Flamma

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When did these take place? We're not talking about the 90s Cowboys, right? I'm only old enough to have seen the '74-'79 Cowboys. Is that Doomsday 2?
 

Diehardblues

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When did these take place? We're not talking about the 90s Cowboys, right? I'm only old enough to have seen the '74-'79 Cowboys. Is that Doomsday 2?
Yea, I’d say Doomsday II was like 75- 82.
Lilly retired in 74 so that is why I’d say Doonsday I would be over then. Doomsday I 65-74. And I’m open to discussion on that .
 

Diehardblues

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Diehard had season tickets to that..... front row seats even.
I did start attending games in the Cotton Bowl but didn’t get season tickets until we moved to Texas Stadium in 1971. Well, my father did initially and then I took over after he died.
 

Diehardblues

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No, defense in the 90’s isn’t included . 92 was a great defense. But I don’t believe we ever called it Doomsday.

Seems I recall some wanting to call it Doomsday III but was it ever officially recognized as such. I’m open for discussion.
 

Diehardblues

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LOL, i had Carthage by five over Rome, although Rome had the Coliseum as home field advantage. Never root against Rome at home, they got lions there.
Yea, it’s amazing how few of fans we have from the Cowboys greatest era.
 

Flamma

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Yea, I’d say Doomsday II was like 75- 82.
Lilly retired in 74 so that is why I’d say Doonsday I would be over then. Doomsday I 65-74. And I’m open to discussion on that .

Ok. That's before my time so I can't comment on it. But I do agree with you on '75 to '82. That sounds spot on.
 

acr731

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Defense

The Doomsday Defense was the defense of the Dallas Cowboys American football team during the dynasty years of the late 1960s - 1970s. This defense was the backbone of the Cowboys' dynasty, which won two Super Bowls (VI, XII) and played in three more (V, X and XIII).

The Doomsday Defense is often recognized as having two different "generations," but different listings of players and time periods exist. The original "Doomsday Defense" can generally be identified as the Cowboys' defenses from 1966 to 1974. "Doomsday II" had its heyday from approximately 1975 to 1982. Many Cowboy fans recognize the defense from 1992 to 1996 as "Doomsday III", though to a lesser extent. This defense was in part, responsible for the Cowboys being the first team to ever win three Super Bowls in a four-year span.

The first defensive player to be named Most Valuable Player (MVP) of the Super Bowl was linebacker Chuck Howley (V). Later linemen Harvey Martin and Randy White became the first (and only) teammates (co-MVPs) to win the award (XII).
 

Flamma

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LOL, i had Carthage by five over Rome, although Rome had the Coliseum as home field advantage. Never root against Rome at home, they got lions there.

Yeah Rome never covered the spread against Carthage until their last battle. In fact they lost games that they were heavily favored like those bum Colts in SB 3. Coach Scipio more than covered the spread in their final battle against Carthage in Africa.
 

Shake_Tiller

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Doomsday I was lead by prime Bob Lilly. George Andrie probably is the most underrated of all Cowboys. He was a great pass rusher. Jethro Pugh was a terrific DT. Willie Townes and later Larry Cole were good DEs when the game was played differently than it is now.

LB was where Doomsday I had a clear advantage -- prime Howley, Jordan and Dave Edwards. They were very active, smart LBs who forced a lot of turnovers. Howley was magnificent, and during the Golden age of MLBs, Jordan was one of the best.

The secondary had both prime Renfro and prime Cornell Greene, both of whom were outstanding. Renfro is the best DB the Cowboys have had, in my opinion. No disrespect to Deion, but he spent only a portion of his career in Dallas. Before a career altering injury, Mike Gaechter was a big-play safety. Dallas was usually short about one good DB, but Herb Adderly, even near the end of his career, nicely filled one hole.

Doomsday II countered Lilly with Randy White. Both great DTs, but I'd take Lilly by a thin margin. John Dutton was probably as good as Pugh, though likely not better. The DEs were more dominant, even taking Andrie into account. Harvey Martin was a sack artist, though Too Tall was probably the better overall player.

The LB corps wasn't quite as good, though Hollywood Henderson was spectacular and Bruenig was a solid player. Neither contributed as much as Howley and Jordan. And they didn't have a third guy like Dave Edwards.

The CBs weren't as good. Guys like Washington and Benny Barnes. Certainly there wasn't a Renfro in the house. But the safeties were amazing -- Harris and Waters -- and perfectly complemented each other. Harris was the best in the league, and Waters was a big play machine.

I guess I'd give a small edge to Doomsday I because Lilly and Renfro were Hall of Fame players, Howley certainly should be, and a case easily could be made for both Jordan and Cornell.

But Doomsday II makes it's own case with Hall of Famers White and Harris, and Martin and Jones who both should have a case.

Interestingly, both teams had a wildly underrated DE -- Andrie and Jones, respectively. Andrie would be remembered much differently if sacks had been an official stat during his career. Jones filled a different role than teams generally employ now. He was great against the run, tipped who knows now many passes and also controlled the screen game. He was a great, great player.

CB might tip the scale, and if Doomsday II had been stronger there, the Cowboys probably would have beaten the Steelers in one or both of the Super Bowls the two teams played.

So I am going with Doomsday I. But both were great defenses.

Landry felt that Lilly wasn't just the best DT but the best player in the league when he was in his prime. I tend to trust the judgment of the Man in the Hat.
 

Motorola

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When did these take place? We're not talking about the 90s Cowboys, right? I'm only old enough to have seen the '74-'79 Cowboys. Is that Doomsday 2?
Go to Wikipedia - Doomsday Defense. The site article presents a detailed account of the seasons and players invovled, along with their individual career accomplishments.
'Wiki' even includes a mention as the 90's Cowboys teams being referred to -by some Cowboys fans- as "Doomsday III".
Not the be all and all; but another source of information to help Cowboys Fans to review (and for some of us.. remenisce) how the Dallas defense was one of the most dominating in 1960-70s era of the NFL .
 

big dog cowboy

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No, defense in the 90’s isn’t included . 92 was a great defense. But I don’t believe we ever called it Doomsday.
It was always referred to as Doomsday Defense. Whenever they had a good game ESPN always called them that. I remember during super bowl week the big debate was, how was the Cowboys Doomsday Defense going to slow down Jim Kelly and the K-gun offense.
 

TequilaCowboy

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Doomsday I was lead by prime Bob Lilly. George Andrie probably is the most underrated of all Cowboys. He was a great pass rusher. Jethro Pugh was a terrific DT. Willie Townes and later Larry Cole were good DEs when the game was played differently than it is now.

LB was where Doomsday I had a clear advantage -- prime Howley, Jordan and Dave Edwards. They were very active, smart LBs who forced a lot of turnovers. Howley was magnificent, and during the Golden age of MLBs, Jordan was one of the best.

The secondary had both prime Renfro and prime Cornell Greene, both of whom were outstanding. Renfro is the best DB the Cowboys have had, in my opinion. No disrespect to Deion, but he spent only a portion of his career in Dallas. Before a career altering injury, Mike Gaechter was a big-play safety. Dallas was usually short about one good DB, but Herb Adderly, even near the end of his career, nicely filled one hole.

Doomsday II countered Lilly with Randy White. Both great DTs, but I'd take Lilly by a thin margin. John Dutton was probably as good as Pugh, though likely not better. The DEs were more dominant, even taking Andrie into account. Harvey Martin was a sack artist, though Too Tall was probably the better overall player.

The LB corps wasn't quite as good, though Hollywood Henderson was spectacular and Bruenig was a solid player. Neither contributed as much as Howley and Jordan. And they didn't have a third guy like Dave Edwards.

The CBs weren't as good. Guys like Washington and Benny Barnes. Certainly there wasn't a Renfro in the house. But the safeties were amazing -- Harris and Waters -- and perfectly complemented each other. Harris was the best in the league, and Waters was a big play machine.

I guess I'd give a small edge to Doomsday I because Lilly and Renfro were Hall of Fame players, Howley certainly should be, and a case easily could be made for both Jordan and Cornell.

But Doomsday II makes it's own case with Hall of Famers White and Harris, and Martin and Jones who both should have a case.

Interestingly, both teams had a wildly underrated DE -- Andrie and Jones, respectively. Andrie would be remembered much differently if sacks had been an official stat during his career. Jones filled a different role than teams generally employ now. He was great against the run, tipped who knows now many passes and also controlled the screen game. He was a great, great player.

CB might tip the scale, and if Doomsday II had been stronger there, the Cowboys probably would have beaten the Steelers in one or both of the Super Bowls the two teams played.

So I am going with Doomsday I. But both were great defenses.

Landry felt that Lilly wasn't just the best DT but the best player in the league when he was in his prime. I tend to trust the judgment of the Man in the Hat.

Great analysis......i agree with Doomsday I by a hair over II. Those matchups with the Steel Curtain were epic though.
 
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