Sick of Hearing About NT

Chuck 54 said:

Agreed.....Antwan Woods should be way down the depth chart, if on the roster at all. Start drafting some of the top rated DTs, and they will wreck offenses with penetration and athleticism. The only reason to play fat run stuffers is because you want to use cheap DTs, thinking the position is not important.

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A. Woods is a average DT, if we can find a way to make him the backup we are in a good place.

Whirlwin said:

People just don’t understand the game it’s obvious. Without that big ugly run stopper you’re not winning in this league. OK so you don’t have to be big and you don’t have to be ugly but you better be a run stopper . Totally agree

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Man its so obvious I didn't know if this thread was being sarcastic or what. How many times do you have to see teams run all over this defense in order to realize the personnel is off? Even when Jaylon and LVE were good this defense still had its moments of getting ran over.

H-m-m, an offspring of King Kong, or a close facsimile would be a splendid addition to our DT spot -- think about it . . . thanks!

Bullflop said:

H-m-m, an offspring of King Kong, or a close facsimile would be a splendid addition to our DT spot -- think about it . . . thanks!

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Suh has a son?

Chuck 54 said:

I’m sick of hearing about nose tackles. We do not need to sign or draft a NT. We don’t have to have 1 fat run stuffer and 1 penetrating playmaker.

Look at the history of great Dallas defenses....you do not need a run stuffing nose tackle like NE’s Wilfork in a 4-3. If you have two really good DTs, you’re set.

Lilly and Pugh
Pugh and White
White and Dutton
Maryland and Casilas
Maryland and Lett

You just can not run garbage DTs out there who wouldn’t start on most teams.

Crawford and Hayden?
Collins and Crawford?
Collins and Woods?
Poe and Crawford?

Give me 2 good, athletic DTs who can penetrate, chase, make plays behind the line and chase plays down the line, and I’ll take that any day over all the 1 and 3 tech talk. We brought in FA DTs who will add to the rotation and improve our run defense, but our current hopes are on Hill and Gallimore, who are both athletic and big. Draft another good DT. I don’t care if he’s a star or a Jimmy Jones, but add one more young guy who can actually play.

(History: Randy White was drafted in 1975, #2 overall, at 6’4” and 257 lbs. He was a backup at MLB for two seasons, playing only on special teams while Larry Cole played out of position at DT. He didn’t even play DT until his 3rd season whenCole was finally able to return to DE)

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If DWare had a big NT, we'd be talking about DWare as the GOAT now. Many times DWare was there. He was on the QB but all the QB had to do was step in the pocket and either throw or run. Time and time again, DWare was just a half a second late because the QB always had room inside. DWare was awesome as it was, can you imagine if the QB could not step up? What a waste...

foofighters said:

If DWare had a big NT, we'd be talking about DWare as the GOAT now. Many times DWare was there. He was on the QB but all the QB had to do was step in the pocket and either throw or run. Time and time again, DWare was just a half a second late because the QB always had room inside. DWare was awesome as it was, can you imagine if the QB could not step up? What a waste...

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Dware was a freak of a player, and did an absolutely amazing job w/ not much around him. No great D player in the history of the NFL has been asked to do more w/ less.

D ware had speed, bit he lacked in the being physical Dept. Bullrush wasn't something he liked doing, and he wasn't great at tackling, and his body wasnt tough enough anyways. Haley, was the goat! Harvey Martin was the goat! Randy white was the goat! Bob Lilly was the goat! Leon the weed smoker was close to being a goat, if he had just laid off the weed. .

I just don't like the way we address the position. Last season the following free agents were on the market.
1T: DJ Reader, Javon Hargrave, Michael Pierce, Micheal Brockers, Andrew Billings
3T: Ndamukong Suh, Vernon Butler, Maliek Collins, Calais Campbell (6th) Deforest Buckner (1st)
DE: Jadaveon Clowney, Dante Fowler Jnr, Emanuel Ogbah, Leonard Floyd, Shaq Lawson

Our signings:
Dontari Poe - 2 years 8.5m (4.25m p/y)
Gerald McCoy - 3 years 18m (6m p/y)
Everson Griffin - 1-year 6m (6m p/y)
Aldon Smith - 1 year 2m (2m p/y)
* Tyrone Crawford - 1 year 8m (8m p/y)
Total: 26.25m
.
Players left (before the draft):
LDE: Lawrence, Armstrong
3T: Hill
1T: Woods, Hamilton
RDE: Gregory

Personally, the guys that jump out straight away are Calais Campbell (trade), Michael Brockers, and Emanual Ogbah. Those three guys would have cost us 25m and a 6th round pick, their contracts combine for about 3m dead money this year if you cut them today. So why spread ourselves so thin across washed-up players last year when there was so much talent out there. We could have taken solid, can't miss players, and just relied a bit more on our rookies as depth! And we keep doing this. At DB this year we've signed Lewis, Neale, Kazee...why not just pick up the super reliable option in Justin Simmons, and back in Wilson as a strong safety. The depth can be filled with a couple mid-round picks in either the 3rd or 4th round. That's safety squared off pretty much.

With Diggs, Brown, Robinson, Canady, and Goodwin we've got 4 out of the 5-6 corners that we generally carry on a roster. It looks like pick 10 will be a corner, so why not just leave it there, maybe add a mid-late guy to compete with Canady, or be the 10th DB.

Alternatively, we could trade down from pick 10 and take a guy like Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, use what we get from the trade down to trade back up with our 2nd to get the corner we like in that range. I just don't get our desire to fill every hole prior to the draft and carry so many veterans. It's just plain dumb IMO, we've got to back our rookies/young players to develop and contribute. This year the players we should back are Diggs, Robinson, and Wilson.....apart from Diggs we've done the opposite.

lockster said:

D ware had speed, bit he lacked in the being physical Dept. Bullrush wasn't something he liked doing, and he wasn't great at tackling, and his body wasnt tough enough anyways. Haley, was the goat! Harvey Martin was the goat! Randy white was the goat! Bob Lilly was the goat! Leon the weed smoker was close to being a goat, if he had just laid off the weed. .

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Oh, the naive. I have no idea how you can be so wrong about DWare, but you have missed it by miles and miles.

Urban is our new DL 1T starter.

KingintheNorth said:

And you will continue to not be able to make stops on 3rd and short, 4th and short.

The Cowboys have subscribed to your theory for years and they've also been a really bad defense for years.

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Thats why you dont have your DTs going wide rather than collapsing. Wether it was bad coaching or players not knowing their jobs, OLs werent knocking Dallas' DT back, they were washing them outside and running inside of them. PLain and simple to me thats a scheme flaw. Im not saying there werent plays were the DL just got pushed back but that wasnt the consistent problem.

kskboys said:

Oh, the naive. I have no idea how you can be so wrong about DWare, but you have missed it by miles and miles.

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His post reads like an old man who only thinks players pre-00s were capable of being great.

Turk said:

not likely. Nothing in his history indicates he will make anywhere near the difference you claim.

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You didn't watch Rondell Carter and Everson Griffin play. That is what he is improving over.

LatinMind said:

Thats why you dont have your DTs going wide rather than collapsing. Wether it was bad coaching or players not knowing their jobs, OLs werent knocking Dallas' DT back, they were washing them outside and running inside of them. PLain and simple to me thats a scheme flaw. Im not saying there werent plays were the DL just got pushed back but that wasnt the consistent problem.

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You said it yourself and still missed it. They were MOVING them.

LatinMind said:

Thats why you dont have your DTs going wide rather than collapsing. Wether it was bad coaching or players not knowing their jobs, OLs werent knocking Dallas' DT back, they were washing them outside and running inside of them. PLain and simple to me thats a scheme flaw. Im not saying there werent plays were the DL just got pushed back but that wasnt the consistent problem.

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We can't just ignore the defensive woe's and blame it on the system. The problem was that if you've got no CAP money you're left with JAGs. Lets take Poe for instance, he retired in 2019 and spent his 2020 retirement standing leaning on O-Linesmen chewing the fat.

Let's be honest stopping the run isnt rocket science, it's about size, strength and application.

kskboys said:

Dware was a freak of a player, and did an absolutely amazing job w/ not much around him. No great D player in the history of the NFL has been asked to do more w/ less.

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You've summed up the whole Cowboys view on Defense in two simple sentences. Rely on one (or if we're lucky 2 players) and fill the rest with JAGS. Rely on the individual rather than complimentary combinations.

We see it now with DLaw trying 100% nearly every play, but get's criticized as he's doesnt put up the numbers. We don't look at the fact that without another threat (like Quinn) he's double teamed nearly every down. His best year was when there was a 1st round pass rusher on the other edge (before the NFL found him out). Now a days we rely on JAGs or a project. Jerry says "don't worry i'm paying DLaw he needs to produce"

CB's or Safeties.....Jerry says "we've spent a 2nd round pick on that Biggs fella, we dont need another one", someone rumored that he thought he only agreed to draft him as he thought he still played WR and pictured he was getting his older brother.

Don't get me going on DT's, i'm sure every year Jerry asks...."remind me again what's that position with the big men, when we dont have the ball, you know the ones, they dont do anything".

Whirlwin said:

OK so you don’t have to be big and you don’t have to be ugly but you better be a run stopper . Totally agree

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I agree 100 % with this, and it was my point all along. You need top quality DTs like we used to emphasize. We haven’t had quality DTs in forever. Give me two so called “3 tech types” who are very good, who penetrate and beat the guy in front of them, and I’ll stop the run just fine. It’s an exaggeration because he’s a generational talent, but if you have two Aaron Donalds, each 280, you won’t have any issues stopping the run. When you really need a huge, strong bull (who gives you almost nothing as pass rush) is when your other tackles just aren’t very good to begin with.

Chuck 54 said:

I agree 100 % with this, and it was my point all along. You need top quality DTs like we used to emphasize. We haven’t had quality DTs in forever. Give me two so called “3 tech types” who are very good, who penetrate and beat the guy in front of them, and I’ll stop the run just fine. It’s an exaggeration because he’s a generational talent, but if you have two Aaron Donalds, each 280, you won’t have any issues stopping the run. When you really need a huge, strong bull (who gives you almost nothing as pass rush) is when your other tackles just aren’t very good to begin with.

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It's been tried and has failed every time that I'm aware.

7 out of the final 8 playoff teams employ NT's. CLEV was the one who didn't. So, if your idea is so good, then why do the best teams have NT's?

speedkilz88 said:

Quinn's defense doesn't use that big of a body. Brandon Mebane in Seattle was a former 3T and was listed at 6-1 311.
Tyeler Davison with the Falcons is listed at 6-2 316.

Jarran Reed is a 3T (Poona Ford is Seattle's 1T at 5-11 309)

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Did Dontario Poe play for HC Dan Quinn in ATL ? (per 2017)
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PoexDo00.htm

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/3/16/14838876/dontari-poe-signs-nfl-free-agency-2017


And Poe was "listed" as 346 pounds.

Just throwing this out there, Russell Maryland was a heck of a good run stuffer and he complemented Lett perfectly in the 1990's.