Sick of Hearing About NT

[buybuydandavis]

Quinn's defense doesn't use that big of a body. Brandon Mebane in Seattle was a former 3T and was listed at 6-1 311.
Tyeler Davison with the Falcons is listed at 6-2 316.

Jarran Reed is a 3T (Poona Ford is Seattle's 1T at 5-11 309)

1T - lower center of gravity with power. Burst helps. Length doesn't help as much because it's too crowded in there to make use of it. That's why leverage and power are at a premium.

Gallimore - 6-2 302. Put a bit more weight on Gallimore, and we have a nice, balanced run/pass 1T. I'd get a bigger one too for run defense and goal line. Gallimore can play 3TRun/1TPass. Paired with a true run stuffing 1T, and we're looking stout at DT against the run.

Urban at DE. Lawrence on the other side. Gallimore at 3T and drafted run stuffing 1T. That should be good run defense dline. Could use a pass rush LB to deal with play action. Not much rush there otherwise.

Hill - just bad news trying to 2gap. He was drafted raw as a pure up the field 1gap, and has barely gotten snaps to go beyond raw at 1gap. He's a poor fit developmental player with only 2 years left. Use him for what he was drafted as, a pure 1gap pass rusher, and move on.

We're close to a dline that can stop the run. LBs are the problem. I have some hope that LVE plays better. But not Jaylon.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I agree. I believe most people (including myself) want the run defense shored up, so they point the finger at DT. It’s not as simple as “plug a fat guy” in the middle, as some suggest. A understanding of how “4-3 Under” scheme popularized by Monte Kiffin, would clear things up. The linebackers played a big part in our poor run defense.

That said, the FO has already made a few major moves, albeit under the radar or less inspiring to some. Ridding ourselves of Mike Nolan’s garbage scheme, and returning to a familiar scheme that most these players were drafted for.. is a major improvement in and of itself. Also, letting washed up player like Poe and Crawford go and replacing them with Urban and presumed draft pick is a upgrade regardless of name recognition. The emergence of Gallimore and getting Tristen Hill back from injury also helps. And Dallas will surely add another before or after the draft when veterans are forced to lower their salary demands.

My biggest worry is at LB. Jaylon is a big hitter, but he has proven he can’t shed blocks. He certainly be moved to Sam LB. I’d say they should cut him, but now that his salary is guaranteed.. I don’t see that happening. LVE proved his best fit is Will LB, so that leaves a big vacancy at the most important LB position.. the Mike LB. Again, the Mike has to be able to shed blocks, be a proven tackler at the LOS, and show coverage ability.

I know that’s the long route to say.. If the rumors of KJ Wright are just rumors.. then LB may be just as big of need as CB and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to see a LB drafted within the first two rounds. Another scenario that should be considered.. Maybe, Dallas can trade a early Mid Rd pick for a proven LB off another team.

I have little hope for us signing/drafting/trading for a starting quality LB because I don't see them willing to sit either LVE or Jaylon.

Makes no sense at all after guaranteeing Jaylon.

So giving up on LVE? I don't think I'd *want* that, though I can see an argument for it. Contract year player with injury history and long term specific injury risk. Not a guy to put development snaps into.

But I don't see them doing it. If both those guys are starters, and Neal is a starting Nickel LB, I don't see room for a starter at LB.

 

[kskboys]

Of the 4 championship game participants, all 4 have NT's. And BUFF's D went downhill in a major way when they let Star walk and replaced him w/ Vernon Butler, a big body but not near as talented.

If NT is so unimportant, then why do the teams who win consistently all have one?

7 of the final 8 in the playoffs employ NT's. Clev is the lone exception.

Sooooooooooooooooo, point me toward all this success from teams who don't have run stuffing NT's.

 

[kskboys]

1T - lower center of gravity with power. Burst helps. Length doesn't help as much because it's too crowded in there to make use of it. That's why leverage and power are at a premium.

Gallimore - 6-2 302. Put a bit more weight on Gallimore, and we have a nice, balanced run/pass 1T. I'd get a bigger one too for run defense and goal line. Gallimore can play 3TRun/1TPass. Paired with a true run stuffing 1T, and we're looking stout at DT against the run.

Urban at DE. Lawrence on the other side. Gallimore at 3T and drafted run stuffing 1T. That should be good run defense dline. Could use a pass rush LB to deal with play action. Not much rush there otherwise.

Hill - just bad news trying to 2gap. He was drafted raw as a pure up the field 1gap, and has barely gotten snaps to go beyond raw at 1gap. He's a poor fit developmental player with only 2 years left. Use him for what he was drafted as, a pure 1gap pass rusher, and move on.

We're close to a dline that can stop the run. LBs are the problem. I have some hope that LVE plays better. But not Jaylon.

Nice post.

At one point in college, Galley worked his weight up to 335 and played NT for OK.

 

[kskboys]

The only example I can think of - of two three tech types - that worked was Donald and Suh on that Rams Super Bowl team few years back, but that worked in part because they also had Brockers in the rotation, and Suh actually can play the nose pretty well even though it's not his natural spot.
And Wade Phillips is a defensive genius.

Yeah, Suh is a waste at NT. TB's D got better when Vea came back and Suh moved back to the 3.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Nice post.

At one point in college, Galley worked his weight up to 335 and played NT for OK.

With a little more weight and power, Gallimore would be a great run/pass balance 1T. Still think he shades toward pass rusher there.

While he played 335 in college, I doubt he can build up close to that now in a good way. I expect it's not as easy to get away with being roided up in the pros as college (that's my theory on Zeke's fall from dominance after 2016), and he likely was just fat.

Going by weight gain over time in olinemen, Gallimore maybe makes it to 315 in a good way. This year, probably still under 310.

I see his value as not being a mountain of fat 2gapper, it's being able to slice/push forward into the pocket/backfield and run down a play. Gallimore is that pocket disrupting 1T you've been waiting for. With a little more strength, a solid enough 2gapper, particularly relative to 3Ts, but I don't see him as being a dominant tree stump 1T ever.

Draft us a tree stump for when it's all about run defense. Then move Gallimore to 3T. A problem with the Marinelli rushmen attitude is that it left us light on short yardage run defense. Those plays have a lot of leverage in a game, and should get staffing accordingly.

 

[Ranched]

Oh look. Jerry really does post in here -----> runs

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

That was a 3-4.

Its the same thing. Whether you are in the 3-4 or 4-3...you need a big man to soak up blocks. IT does not hurt you.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Rats was only good for a couple of years. He wore out quickly due to build.

It's not about size, it's about build.

Shocking how many fans don't comprehend the NT position and what it does for a D.

Ok who was the poster that said "its not about size its about build"? If that's not you then my mistake.

 

[FLWarpigrpig]

I would rather have A + DL with average backers then the other way around. Just My Humble Opinion

 

[gimmesix]

I’m sick of hearing about nose tackles. We do not need to sign or draft a NT. We don’t have to have 1 fat run stuffer and 1 penetrating playmaker.

Look at the history of great Dallas defenses....you do not need a run stuffing nose tackle like NE’s Wilfork in a 4-3. If you have two really good DTs, you’re set.

Lilly and Pugh
Pugh and White
White and Dutton
Maryland and Casilas
Maryland and Lett

You just can not run garbage DTs out there who wouldn’t start on most teams.

Crawford and Hayden?
Collins and Crawford?
Collins and Woods?
Poe and Crawford?

Give me 2 good, athletic DTs who can penetrate, chase, make plays behind the line and chase plays down the line, and I’ll take that any day over all the 1 and 3 tech talk. We brought in FA DTs who will add to the rotation and improve our run defense, but our current hopes are on Hill and Gallimore, who are both athletic and big. Draft another good DT. I don’t care if he’s a star or a Jimmy Jones, but add one more young guy who can actually play.

(History: Randy White was drafted in 1975, #2 overall, at 6’4” and 257 lbs. He was a backup at MLB for two seasons, playing only on special teams while Larry Cole played out of position at DT. He didn’t even play DT until his 3rd season whenCole was finally able to return to DE)

Either you have to have at least one big blocker magnet or you have to have big linebackers who can take on and shed blocks by offensive linemen. One reason this version of the 4-3 became popular is because teams desired speed at linebacker over size. When you have that, you have to keep those linebackers clean to use their speed or they get smothered by much bigger OL. Our defense suffered last year because we could not keep the OL off the linebackers.

Ideally, you'd love for that big blocker magnet at NT to also be a player who can penetrate and make plays in the backfield, but it's not easy to find that combination. The guy who can penetrate is set up so that he can get more one-on-one matchups that he can win to be the playmaker among the two DTs.

Now, it might seem to you that if you had two players who can win those one-on-one matchups, it would take care of the problem. But it doesn't work that way because of double-teams. If you don't have one DT who can anchor and make himself essentially an immovable object, then the offense will double him to push him in the direction it wants him to go, then because they were able to move him, the second lineman will peel off to the second level to smother one of those smaller linebackers.

 

[Alexander]

I’m sick of hearing about nose tackles. We do not need to sign or draft a NT. We don’t have to have 1 fat run stuffer and 1 penetrating playmaker.

Look at the history of great Dallas defenses....you do not need a run stuffing nose tackle like NE’s Wilfork in a 4-3. If you have two really good DTs, you’re set.

Lilly and Pugh
Pugh and White
White and Dutton
Maryland and Casilas
Maryland and Lett

You just can not run garbage DTs out there who wouldn’t start on most teams.

Crawford and Hayden?
Collins and Crawford?
Collins and Woods?
Poe and Crawford?

Give me 2 good, athletic DTs who can penetrate, chase, make plays behind the line and chase plays down the line, and I’ll take that any day over all the 1 and 3 tech talk. We brought in FA DTs who will add to the rotation and improve our run defense, but our current hopes are on Hill and Gallimore, who are both athletic and big. Draft another good DT. I don’t care if he’s a star or a Jimmy Jones, but add one more young guy who can actually play.

(History: Randy White was drafted in 1975, #2 overall, at 6’4” and 257 lbs. He was a backup at MLB for two seasons, playing only on special teams while Larry Cole played out of position at DT. He didn’t even play DT until his 3rd season whenCole was finally able to return to DE)

The whole solid point is we need better interior lineman.

We have none. It is not that hard to figure out.

Nor should it make you sick.

 

[kskboys]

Ok who was the poster that said "its not about size its about build"? If that's not you then my mistake.

That's OK, I'm not comprehending our whole convo.

 

[gimmesix]

Ratliff was Parcell's & Wade Phillips' NT.

Now if he had hung around for Marinelli then maybe he could have switched to 3T and had even more production.

Actually, Ferguson was Parcells' NT. The Phillips' 3-4 allowed for a smaller, quicker NT (although Ferguson started off in the role) because Phillips believed in having his three-man front all try to win one-on-one battles, along with whichever outside linebacker rushed. This stressed the offense as long as those DL could win their one-on-ones and disrupt the play, but created issues for the linebackers when they couldn't or when the offense used the aggressiveness of the scheme against the defense.

 

[KingintheNorth]

No they haven’t. They’ve been running out JAGs at DT. I’m not talking about size....I’m talking about quality. The Cowboys DTs have been garbage for over 20 years.

and Trysten Hill (especially) and Neville Gallimore continue that trend.

 

[Cowboy06]

CJ Anderson and all the street FA running backs approve this message.

 

[ghst187]

Whether you want to talk about 1T or 3T or whatever....the fact is we need some pair of DTs that can clog running lanes and get push up the middle during a pass rush. I’ve long thought DC has been part of the blame too as hard to imagine our DL talent has been so incredibly bad that teams roll up team single game rushing records against us on a weekly basis with JAG RBs.

 

[JeffInDC]

I could not disagree more.

The NFL has changed and is playing more defensive backs on defense and getting more spread out.

That means the 1T DT is becoming more of a need because smaller LB's and the DB's don't shed blocks they run around them creating holes.

Therefore, keeping the O-Line busy is very important because, it allows your LB's and DB's to run and hit.

The '70's thru 90's Cowboys also depended on Fullbacks as a key part of the offense.

Things change so, the importance of positions change.

While I believe the OP is on to something with his "talent" theme, there are numerous DT's out there that have certain "talents". What this IDL has lacked for years is a DT that has the "talent" to both a) occupy double teams and b) HOLD HIS GROUND while doing so. So many people don't seem to understand how underrated a skill holding your ground against double teams is. And, it's not always a size issue. Poe was GIGANTIC last year, yet TERRIBLE at holding his ground - he was CONSTANTLY getting pushed back, sideways, you name it. In just about every iteration of the 4-3 these days, the most successful ones have one guy that is the athletic, penetrating 3T and one guy that eats up multiple blockers down after down (to not only keep the 3T in constant 1-on-1 battles, but, to keep the LB's clean). THAT'S the guy Dallas needs. Period

 

[blueblood70]

The whole solid point is we need better interior lineman.

We have none. It is not that hard to figure out.

Nor should it make you sick.

You ABSOLUTELY DO NOT KNOW IF THIS NEW MIX OF PLAYERS CAN OR CAN NOT GET IT DONE WIN QUINNS SCHEME AND THE DRAFT IS STILL AHEAD..

I LIKE HOW FROM KEYBOARD YOU KNOW ":WE HAVE NONE " LOL

we have no idea how Gallimore hill and woods plus adding Urban, Watkins ,and Basham will preform, some can take the next step and with better scheme even our Lbs could play better..this isnt look at names and declare it a failure business..

add Kazee and Neal etc and its about how they all sync and play together not looking where they came from and what not..thats not how it works..if quinn can get max effort and get all he can from these guys, all we need them is to rise from bottom five to middle of the pack to go with an offense that can core..

 

[armadillooutlaw]

Yeah, Suh is a waste at NT. TB's D got better when Vea came back and Suh moved back to the 3.

Pretty much.