R1 Grade: B-

Irvin88_4life

Irvin88_4life

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jterrell said:
They were part of the equation, they just would have required a move up.
End of day they were almost certainly the teams top 2 targets.
They went off board so that's a con.
I liked both CB more than Parsons but I do not think I liked them more than Parsons +75+84 which is what it ended up being.
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You also have to remember to get one of the corners you have to trade up. So no way that can be a con when it's premium picks to move up farther inside the 10. So a corner and day 2 pick at minimum vs Parsons and pick 84.........
 
Jarntt

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jterrell said:
ROFL man.
You have a picture of Jaylon in your AVI and yet are howling over his play.
That's just tough to reconcile.

Jaylon leads the team in snaps the last 3 years.
He should have been subbed out more last year but there were no options who were even close to his level which isn't to say he was good but just how bad everyone else was.
Jaylon was a Will that didn't call the defense, then a Mike that did all in a scheme that was a read and react 2 gap with no DTs in front of him all with no off-season or practice.
Trying to argue Jaylon was worse than his back ups last year makes clear you are making emotional arguments and not dealing in reality. .
Yes, he was making tackles 8 yards down the field... while his LB brethren were buried and dead on the play. Those guys couldn't even make it through games.

Go watch Parsons versus Ohio State.
It's worse than anything Jaylon put on tape last year.
OSU just did a ball fake and Fields ran right passed him over and over and over.
So PSU moved him to down edge rusher and he just got handled by the OSU OT.

But certainly in tape versus Memphis he ate them all the way up. Game over domination.

Barmore is a very worthy target at 44 but I'm not sure he's anything more than Gallimore is right now.
He'd be great depth but he's not a plus run stuffer like Urban/AWoods who will play 1T.
He'd be a high ceiling quality DT of the type Dallas took with Hill and Gallimore the last two seasons. With those 3 you'd love that 3 man rotation but I couldn't even tell you'd who'd win the starting job.
He did look great in that championship game but he had some real stinkers.

Getting a starting CB or Safety holds more value for me at 44.
Then potentially adding a DT like Milton Williams who needs a year to redshirt/learn or a Daviyon Nixon who looks as skilled as Barmore but may be a little less polished is probably right about as valuable if not more so given the CB/S could start day 1 and play 80% of your defensive snaps.

I think Parsons can help you and if LVE is really not able to play 16 weeks he is true value add and long term solution.
But I absolutely do not think an off-ball LB rated a 9.5 is better than a CB rated 9.4
Positional value is simply higher at CB for me.
And that's not even factoring in the need score at CB is whatever the highest possible is because today you have.
CB1 - Diggs
CB2 - Brown
CB3 - Lewis
Click to expand...
Leaving that pic up is what some call ironical...wouldn't expect you to get it

You are wrong. Joe Thomas played at a much higher level than Jaylon last year. Wasn't even close. He made tackles 8 yards down the field because he was blown off the line, made poor reads and chased

They should also have given more snaps to Bernard to see what he has. You pretend to know Football and try to defend Jaylon's play and it makes you look like you are a Jaylon fan and not a Football fan
 
TwoDeep3

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jterrell said:
Most fans were aghast at selecting LB R1.
Click to expand...

Since when does the fan opinion come into play as far as grading the draft pick?

First off, this will be decided three years from now and not this season. Unless he is the next Lawrence Taylor by November.

But more importantly the fanbase got stoked up for a corner and nothing else. If Dallas had traded up the fanbase - that rational group who always seem to know more than professionals - the people squawking now would be on fire for trading draft assets to move up for a corner that almost to a man on this site figured Dallas would have the choice between Horn and PS2. The catcalls would be Jones is an idiot and overreacted. He should have stayed where he was an got the corner anyway.

So relying on the fanbase to make an educated comment on what is and what isn't may be one of the most absurd aspects of this board. Especially when I see fans post that there are people on CZ who know more than people that run this team.

Moving to twenty was out of the question.
As it has been said many times by the professionals that make draft decision in this game, a pick next year loses an entire draft round because it is next year. So a 1st is not nearly as glamourous as some think since the team who offers it might have a magical season and it becomes a low first. There is too much blue sky in that a year before you know.

This was a good pick with added value THIS SEASON.

I do not recall any season since I have been posting on this board that so many got behind a pet cat, and now act like spoiled children because they didn't get the GI Joe action figure with Kungfu grip for Christmas.

Dallas got the best defensive player in the draft. All this character assassination and second guessing his skill set is an example of people who got their hearts set on one thing and got disappointed.

And these are the guys you call out in your post to determine the grade value of this pick.

Seriously?
 

kskboys

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jterrell said:
They were part of the equation, they just would have required a move up.
End of day they were almost certainly the teams top 2 targets.
They went off board so that's a con.
I liked both CB more than Parsons but I do not think I liked them more than Parsons +75+84 which is what it ended up being.
Click to expand...
What? You wanted to move up for decent CB's? Why?
 

kskboys

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jterrell said:
My guess is this will be one of the more generous day 1 grades.
Most fans were aghast at selecting LB R1.
Click to expand...
What? I haven't seen any fan reaction anywhere except here, but on this site the poll was overwhelmingly positive. Which fans are you referring to?
 
TheMarathonContinues

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jterrell said:
ROFL dude you are saying things that are 100% inaccurate.
Like demonstrably false.
Stop it. It's pointless.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about Twitter I'm talking about the people not his site. NOBODY ONCE compared him to Jaylon and if I'm wrong fair enough I'll own up to it. But show me the post where you or someone else was comparing Micah Parsons to Jaylon....never heard that name linked to him the one guy I heard linked with him was Devin White...now he's Jaylon...Its lazy. Its also lazy to think Parsons can't develop his coverage skills.
 
TheMarathonContinues

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Jarntt said:
Pre or post injury Jaylon, cause they ain't the same player. Jaylon today is nothing like this kid. Jaylon just runs around with his head down and flapping his arms like a mental patient and doesn't even seem like he is watching what is going on.

A lot of this isn't directed at anyone in particular, but I don't get some people. Our LB play was absolutely atrocious. Jaylon didn't belong on an NFL Field last year. He wasn't bad, he was horrid. He would have been a poor backup. LVE wasn't too much better and seems to be hurt half the time. Our need at LB was as big as our need at DB. This team sucked at all 3 levels last year. We picked a guy that I felt before the draft was the best defensive player in the draft and I certainly was not alone. He may even play some DE in the nickel and could end up better at that than anyone else in the draft. Plus, we got a 3rd rounder to boot. What I love most about this pick is it seems like a scouts pick, not a Jerry pick. Jerry would have forced CB I think. I think too many fans got caught up in the we need a CB discussion and read too many mock drafts and were blinded by just taking the best player you can. The 2 CBs were both gone but this kid is a more talented player than either of them IMO. I'm so happy with this pick. And for those that are too short-sighted to see beyond CB at least pretend you know that the draft is more than one round. And on top of that I hope we take Barmore here and not CB and yes I know we need a corner more than any team in the league, but you try to draft guys that will be stars and 3 tech is also a huge need. Teams didn't even have to pass against us because we couldn't stop the run
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Exactly. I don't care who he quotes there is no comparison to Jaylon even at his best a few year ago to Parsons. I'm not saying Parsons will be better. HE may bust. But they look nothing alike. There are times Jaylon looks like he's limited physically. Parsons doesn't have that issue. Sideline to sideline he's incredibly fast. I don't even trust Jaylon against the run.....
 
TwentyOne

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jterrell said:
All in all I am mixed on the Cowboys R1.

Pros:
- Parsons might be the best raw athlete in this draft defensively. 4.39 at 246 pounds is scary good.
- He is a defender. DAL had to align resources to that side of the ball. Forgetting the NFL game is still 3 phases is egregious roster mgmt.
- For all the Jaylon/LVE miss talk they were dynamic together with a healthy LVE for one stretch. You can see Quinn trying to recreate that with a healthy Parsons.
- The trade down was insanely nice. You pick up 84 for free as DAL was absolutely not taking a QB or WR. DAL has most remaining picks/value of any team. Should own day 2 w/ 4 picks.
- Parsons was the top rated defender on most boards for the last year.
- Day 1 role as a starting LB. Likely plays Will w LVE becoming LB3.
- Jimmy chart says DAL won trade with 170 point pick 84 for dropping 2 spots which is 100 points. +70 points is pretty extreme.

Cons:
- He is a Cowboys LB... he can run and he can hit but he attacks first action; Ball fakes own him.
- He is a LB period. Positional value is lowest on defense for me.
- He is a bit too concerned with being an alpha dog for me.
- Team now has two Jaylons. Big dudes who play best just attacking or lining up in man coverage versus tight ends/running backs.
- Top 2 CBs probably were a better fit for positional value, immediate return.
Click to expand...


I hope he will stay away from Jaylon.

I think the pick is ok but it also shows that we took too much risk the last few years when it comes to drafting LBs.
So all thank JJ for putting us in a position where we had to spend another high pick for a position that should have been already fixed.

Thats what you get when you taking risks again and again and again. You find yourself in a position where you have to waste picks that you need elsewhere.

Micah is a fine LB but he needs to learn the game and not playing based only on his instincts. He also needs to play within the system. I dont think Dallas will let him do his own thing like he was used to in college. And he needs a DL who can let him roam. We dont have that right now.

So lets see what happens.
 
jterrell

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TwoDeep3 said:
Since when does the fan opinion come into play as far as grading the draft pick?

First off, this will be decided three years from now and not this season. Unless he is the next Lawrence Taylor by November.

But more importantly the fanbase got stoked up for a corner and nothing else. If Dallas had traded up the fanbase - that rational group who always seem to know more than professionals - the people squawking now would be on fire for trading draft assets to move up for a corner that almost to a man on this site figured Dallas would have the choice between Horn and PS2. The catcalls would be Jones is an idiot and overreacted. He should have stayed where he was an got the corner anyway.

So relying on the fanbase to make an educated comment on what is and what isn't may be one of the most absurd aspects of this board. Especially when I see fans post that there are people on CZ who know more than people that run this team.

Moving to twenty was out of the question.
As it has been said many times by the professionals that make draft decision in this game, a pick next year loses an entire draft round because it is next year. So a 1st is not nearly as glamourous as some think since the team who offers it might have a magical season and it becomes a low first. There is too much blue sky in that a year before you know.

This was a good pick with added value THIS SEASON.

I do not recall any season since I have been posting on this board that so many got behind a pet cat, and now act like spoiled children because they didn't get the GI Joe action figure with Kungfu grip for Christmas.

Dallas got the best defensive player in the draft. All this character assassination and second guessing his skill set is an example of people who got their hearts set on one thing and got disappointed.

And these are the guys you call out in your post to determine the grade value of this pick.

Seriously?
Click to expand...
Let's clear up the obvious, easy stuff.
1st: Grades are offered by fans/bloggers/youtubers, thus my statement: It'll be one of the higher grades I suspect.
I didn't say it had any real weight.

2nd: The final grade will absolutely be decided in 3 years. No one ever pretended otherwise. But we are all discussing it today. Crying because one doesn't like the grade when one can quite friggin easily ignore the posts that state in the very title that there is a grade.

3rd: Agreed, no trade down to 20 was a real option. just too far and the Bears are a good football team with a quality 1-2 at QB now reducing the value of their future picks.

4th: How much value was added this season REMAINS TO BE SEEN, just like the grade. There's no guarantee Parsons has a walk in day 1 starting job other than on paper where you list a 4-3 with 3 LB.

5th: Dallas did in fact NOT get the best defensive player int he draft IMO. Nor in Denver's or Carolinas. But you are free to feel that way.

6th: You get what you get as a fan. Has zero to do with any pet cats. Parsons was behind Sewell/PS2/Chase/Slater/Horn for me personally. But I do love the +84 move. So I graded them a B-.

7th: Parsons character was challenged long before Dallas was linked to him or selected him. He is a Pennsylvania guy who spent the year in California away form his college after opt out and every prospect write up by a professional mentions off field concerns to check out.

8th: Anyone can grade this however they like. This is simply my grade. I will gladly explain it, extrapolate it and discuss it but I will most certainly not change it.
 

Malhavoc

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jterrell said:
Let's clear up the obvious, easy stuff.
1st: Grades are offered by fans/bloggers/youtubers, thus my statement: It'll be one of the higher grades I suspect.
I didn't say it had any real weight.

2nd: The final grade will absolutely be decided in 3 years. No one ever pretended otherwise. But we are all discussing it today. Crying because one doesn't like the grade when one can quite friggin easily ignore the posts that state in the very title that there is a grade.

3rd: Agreed, no trade down to 20 was a real option. just too far and the Bears are a good football team with a quality 1-2 at QB now reducing the value of their future picks.

4th: How much value was added this season REMAINS TO BE SEEN, just like the grade. There's no guarantee Parsons has a walk in day 1 starting job other than on paper where you list a 4-3 with 3 LB.

5th: Dallas did in fact NOT get the best defensive player int he draft IMO. Nor in Denver's or Carolinas. But you are free to feel that way.

6th: You get what you get as a fan. Has zero to do with any pet cats. Parsons was behind Sewell/PS2/Chase/Slater/Horn for me personally. But I do love the +84 move. So I graded them a B-.

7th: Parsons character was challenged long before Dallas was linked to him or selected him. He is a Pennsylvania guy who spent the year in California away form his college after opt out and every prospect write up by a professional mentions off field concerns to check out.

8th: Anyone can grade this however they like. This is simply my grade. I will gladly explain it, extrapolate it and discuss it but I will most certainly not change it.
Click to expand...
Has someone really asked you to change your grade ?
Omg this ain’t that serious. Our opinions don’t amount to much. Parsons will answer all these questions once he gets on the field.
 
TwoDeep3

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jterrell said:
Let's clear up the obvious, easy stuff.
1st: Grades are offered by fans/bloggers/youtubers, thus my statement: It'll be one of the higher grades I suspect.
I didn't say it had any real weight.

2nd: The final grade will absolutely be decided in 3 years. No one ever pretended otherwise. But we are all discussing it today. Crying because one doesn't like the grade when one can quite friggin easily ignore the posts that state in the very title that there is a grade.

3rd: Agreed, no trade down to 20 was a real option. just too far and the Bears are a good football team with a quality 1-2 at QB now reducing the value of their future picks.

4th: How much value was added this season REMAINS TO BE SEEN, just like the grade. There's no guarantee Parsons has a walk in day 1 starting job other than on paper where you list a 4-3 with 3 LB.

5th: Dallas did in fact NOT get the best defensive player int he draft IMO. Nor in Denver's or Carolinas. But you are free to feel that way.

6th: You get what you get as a fan. Has zero to do with any pet cats. Parsons was behind Sewell/PS2/Chase/Slater/Horn for me personally. But I do love the +84 move. So I graded them a B-.

7th: Parsons character was challenged long before Dallas was linked to him or selected him. He is a Pennsylvania guy who spent the year in California away form his college after opt out and every prospect write up by a professional mentions off field concerns to check out.

8th: Anyone can grade this however they like. This is simply my grade. I will gladly explain it, extrapolate it and discuss it but I will most certainly not change it.
Click to expand...

IMO is what you said. And that is just it, an opinion. I am not asking you to change anything. But your assertion of what the pros thought of him as a defensive pick is contrary to to the conventional assessment. A 245 pound LB that runs a 4.37 or so forty, who led his team - Linebacker U - in tackles his freshman and sophomore years, and was the best player defensively - by all accounts - on Penn Sts. team surely was the best defender in this draft. Remains to be seen, but in the world of speculation, which is what the draft is, he the was odds on favorite to be the cream of the crop.

Check out a post by Catch17, who has posted this local news station article several times about the off field incident. It was a fist fight where the kid - not Parsons - was getting his butt handed to him and he - the kid, not Parsons - pulled a knife.

Law suits were filed and dismissed. The kid and his father blamed coaches and players. Parsons was put on probation for a few months and any further incidents between he and Humphries - the kid in question - did not materialize after this altercation.

Sorry, but the kid seems like a whiner. The coaches told him to toughen up. Then kid was not arrested for brandishing a deadly weapon. Parsons took his punishment and moved on So much so he graduated in three years. The kid and his dad filed lawsuits, Three to be exact. All three were dismissed.
 
TheMarathonContinues

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visionary

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America's Cowboy said:
This is what I've been saying. So obvious to those who know how to study film.

Cowboys drafted another Jaylon Smith. Period.

I don't like the pick, but I will support the player.

I have a feeling several years down the road we will regret the pick, unless Parsons drastically improves on his play recognition and physically transforms his body to become more mobile and able to cut and go in the opposite direction without losing speed, quickness or momentum.
Click to expand...

looks like Cowboys scouts don’t “know how to study film”

maybe you can educate them with your film study

:facepalm::facepalm::lmao:
 
mattjames2010

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DakPresgoat said:
You mean college tape from before he shredded his knee? Go ahead.
Click to expand...

I had a thread on it a couple years ago. Jaylon always had problems with biting on play fakes. Always. He also wasn't playing great during the season he hurt his knee.
 

QuincyCarterEra

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Malhavoc said:
Unbelievable. You draft arguably the best defensive player in the draft at 12, get an extra pick and you give that selection a B-.
Click to expand...

That's one way to word it. Unbelievable.

Taking a off-ball LB(the running back of the defense), who wasn't the best defensive player in the draft, who struggles in coverage, at #12 overall and you want to give higher than a B-???
 
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