R1 Grade: B-

jterrell

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Comparing Jaylon to Parsons is simply some of the most laziest opinions you can possibly have. Extremely lazy. Unless you are comparing him to Notre Dame Jaylon.....
The comparison is at collegiate level because Parsons has zero pro experience.
The concern is the weaknesses are the same : lack of coverage experience, lack of play diagnoses, ran past people versus shed blockers.
 

Ken

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I'd have given them an A- for a trade down to 12 then a Slater selection.
Just a far safer pick IMO.
Slater was working out with Big Duke and Tyron Smith while Parsons was in Cali.
See i wouldn't have liked it as much. I think Slater will be a good player but we need OL like we need a hole in the head, imo. We have won nothing with the best OL in the league in years past...our defense needs the infusion of talent in the worst way.

Adding this type of talent to our horrible defense cannot be underestimated.
 

JD_KaPow

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All in all I am mixed on the Cowboys R1.

Pros:
- Parsons might be the best raw athlete in this draft defensively. 4.39 at 246 pounds is scary good.
- He is a defender. DAL had to align resources to that side of the ball. Forgetting the NFL game is still 3 phases is egregious roster mgmt.
- For all the Jaylon/LVE miss talk they were dynamic together with a healthy LVE for one stretch. You can see Quinn trying to recreate that with a healthy Parsons.
- The trade down was insanely nice. You pick up 84 for free as DAL was absolutely not taking a QB or WR. DAL has most remaining picks/value of any team. Should own day 2 w/ 4 picks.
- Parsons was the top rated defender on most boards for the last year.
- Day 1 role as a starting LB. Likely plays Will w LVE becoming LB3.
- Jimmy chart says DAL won trade with 170 point pick 84 for dropping 2 spots which is 100 points. +70 points is pretty extreme.

Cons:
- He is a Cowboys LB... he can run and he can hit but he attacks first action; Ball fakes own him.
- He is a LB period. Positional value is lowest on defense for me.
- He is a bit too concerned with being an alpha dog for me.
- Team now has two Jaylons. Big dudes who play best just attacking or lining up in man coverage versus tight ends/running backs.
- Top 2 CBs probably were a better fit for positional value, immediate return.

The way I see it, you have to look at what they did in the 1st vs. what they could have done.

They got Parsons and #84.

Potentially, they could have:
  • traded up to get Horn, losing pick #99.
  • traded up to get Surtain, losing pick #115.
  • taken the trade with the Bears.
I don't know if any of these options were really on the table, of course. You can't downgrade them for not taking the CBs though without accounting for the cost to trade up and get them. I'm more interested in knowing if they turned down the Bears offer. The Giants made out quite nicely with that deal; it would have been just about a dead-even trade to get to 10. My guess is that Dallas really liked Parsons and maybe a couple other guys (Slater?) enough that they weren't willing to drop that far. Which is fair.
 

jterrell

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See i wouldn't have liked it as much. I think Slater will be a good player but we need OL like we need a hole in the head, imo. We have won nothing with the best OL in the league in years past...our defense needs the infusion of talent in the worst way.

Adding this type of talent to our horrible defense cannot be underestimated.
I'd counter with:
The last two top 20 overall OL we took were Tyron Smith and Zack Martin.
The last two top 20 overall LB we took were Bobby Carpenter and LVE.

Slater is a Zack Martin type prospect. Pro Bowl OG right this second with OT flex ability.

Connor Williams is only signed for 1 more year, Tyron is battling injury that will eventually win.
 

jterrell

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since his video was quoted as some weird example of Parsons being infallible instead of what the video actually said...

 

TheMarathonContinues

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The comparison is at collegiate level because Parsons has zero pro experience.
The concern is the weaknesses are the same : lack of coverage experience, lack of play diagnoses, ran past people versus shed blockers.
The issue with Jaylon is that he doesn't seem to have ever fully recovered to his college form. His best football was probably in college. Parson's doesn't have those issues. He also has only played the position for 2 years and has shown a incredible jump. Jaylon has never been the athlete Parsons is. Never been as fast.
 

Malhavoc

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since his video was quoted as some weird example of Parsons being infallible instead of what the video actually said...


It’s perfectly fine to have this take. Some people will go with it and some like myself do not. I’m more in line with those scouts that viewed Parsons as a top 10 pick.
 

jterrell

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It’s perfectly fine to have this take. Some people will go with it and some like myself do not. I’m more in line with those scouts that viewed Parsons as a top 10 pick.
Nothing wrong with that.
It's perfectly fine to value players differently.

Anyone that wants to call this an A graft, I just say OK.

But I do struggle when people(noy saying you) quote video that says he can't really diagnose plays and is very easily fooled to me as an example of proof he is good at diagnosing plays and is hard to fool... like what?

I do think his generic average draft rating would be high single digits making him a value at pick 12.
You are drafting athletes and athletically he is an outlier.
 

jterrell

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The issue with Jaylon is that he doesn't seem to have ever fully recovered to his college form. His best football was probably in college. Parson's doesn't have those issues. He also has only played the position for 2 years and has shown a incredible jump. Jaylon has never been the athlete Parsons is. Never been as fast.
Parsons was bigger and a touch faster than Jaylon in college (Jaylon was 223 and his best 40 was 4.44; Parsons was 246 and clocking 4.39 lows). Jaylon obviously had a bigger impact in college as he played more and bigger games.

Now, today, Jaylon is a 6'2": 245-250 pound MLB that runs a 4.5 but can't change direction.
Parsons is a 6'3" 246 pound LB that runs a 4.4 and plays Will and struggles changing direction. Not like Jaylon because he is overly thick but because he just seems confused on plays at times.
Both guys have struggled as B gap pluggers UNLESS they can fire off and just beat the OL.
When they get touched they both tend to just shoulder butt dudes and try to make the tackle anyway.
Both have poor eye discipline and will bite on a fake/counter then struggle to get going the other direction.
Both tend to beat blocks with speed rather than take them on.

Those are all just facts that are very visible in the video Voch created with tons of cut ups and slow motion examples.
John Owning has some more.

I think Parsons has an insane upside ceiling. There's literally no reason he can't take to coaching and end up an entirely different level of technician than Jaylon is today.

But it does anyone zero good to just lie on message boards and say things that have zero basis in fact.
 

Ken

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I'd counter with:
The last two top 20 overall OL we took were Tyron Smith and Zack Martin.
The last two top 20 overall LB we took were Bobby Carpenter and LVE.

Slater is a Zack Martin type prospect. Pro Bowl OG right this second with OT flex ability.

Connor Williams is only signed for 1 more year, Tyron is battling injury that will eventually win.
LVE was an absolute stud until his neck injury. And honestly, I haven't given up on him since last year was his first year back and was playing in a horrible scheme, with terrible support around him.

I don't doubt that Slater will be a good player. I just think that OL is still the strength of the team (with QB and WR) and our Defense is horrific. I can't hate adding this type of player to D.
 

mattjames2010

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Unbelievable. You draft arguably the best defensive player in the draft at 12, get an extra pick and you give that selection a B-.

LOL we say this nearly every year about our picks. "We got the best player in the draft at this spot!"
 

Jarntt

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Player comps via scouts were in fact "Jaylon Smith".
Parsons is not a play diagnoser either. His "weaknesses" are zone coverage and play action/ball fakes.
He was a HS DE and he was best used as an attack dog just coming forward beating OL to the spot.
Like Jaylon he is not good in zone but can handle man assignments with raw speed. He has poor eye discipline and plays better coming downhill.

Like a lot of high draft picks he out-athleted folks in college. But he is not take on LB nor is he a Sean Lee I know whats coming player.
He is a run and hit guy. Same as Jaylon.
Which is fine, Jaylon is a quality NFL LB.
You just now have two very similar guys.
Pre or post injury Jaylon, cause they ain't the same player. Jaylon today is nothing like this kid. Jaylon just runs around with his head down and flapping his arms like a mental patient and doesn't even seem like he is watching what is going on.

A lot of this isn't directed at anyone in particular, but I don't get some people. Our LB play was absolutely atrocious. Jaylon didn't belong on an NFL Field last year. He wasn't bad, he was horrid. He would have been a poor backup. LVE wasn't too much better and seems to be hurt half the time. Our need at LB was as big as our need at DB. This team sucked at all 3 levels last year. We picked a guy that I felt before the draft was the best defensive player in the draft and I certainly was not alone. He may even play some DE in the nickel and could end up better at that than anyone else in the draft. Plus, we got a 3rd rounder to boot. What I love most about this pick is it seems like a scouts pick, not a Jerry pick. Jerry would have forced CB I think. I think too many fans got caught up in the we need a CB discussion and read too many mock drafts and were blinded by just taking the best player you can. The 2 CBs were both gone but this kid is a more talented player than either of them IMO. I'm so happy with this pick. And for those that are too short-sighted to see beyond CB at least pretend you know that the draft is more than one round. And on top of that I hope we take Barmore here and not CB and yes I know we need a corner more than any team in the league, but you try to draft guys that will be stars and 3 tech is also a huge need. Teams didn't even have to pass against us because we couldn't stop the run
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Parsons was bigger and a touch faster than Jaylon in college (Jaylon was 223 and his best 40 was 4.44; Parsons was 246 and clocking 4.39 lows). Jaylon obviously had a bigger impact in college as he played more and bigger games.

Now, today, Jaylon is a 6'2": 245-250 pound MLB that runs a 4.5 but can't change direction.
Parsons is a 6'3" 246 pound LB that runs a 4.4 and plays Will and struggles changing direction. Not like Jaylon because he is overly thick but because he just seems confused on plays at times.
Both guys have struggled as B gap pluggers UNLESS they can fire off and just beat the OL.
When they get touched they both tend to just shoulder butt dudes and try to make the tackle anyway.
Both have poor eye discipline and will bite on a fake/counter then struggle to get going the other direction.
Both tend to beat blocks with speed rather than take them on.

Those are all just facts that are very visible in the video Voch created with tons of cut ups and slow motion examples.
John Owning has some more.

I think Parsons has an insane upside ceiling. There's literally no reason he can't take to coaching and end up an entirely different level of technician than Jaylon is today.

But it does anyone zero good to just lie on message boards and say things that have zero basis in fact.
Its a lazy opinion. You watch these guys on film and they do not look nothing alike. Nobody started comparing him to Jaylon until last night. Bobby Wagner also had some flaws as well.
 

CowboyRoy

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All in all I am mixed on the Cowboys R1.

Pros:
- Parsons might be the best raw athlete in this draft defensively. 4.39 at 246 pounds is scary good.
- He is a defender. DAL had to align resources to that side of the ball. Forgetting the NFL game is still 3 phases is egregious roster mgmt.
- For all the Jaylon/LVE miss talk they were dynamic together with a healthy LVE for one stretch. You can see Quinn trying to recreate that with a healthy Parsons.
- The trade down was insanely nice. You pick up 84 for free as DAL was absolutely not taking a QB or WR. DAL has most remaining picks/value of any team. Should own day 2 w/ 4 picks.
- Parsons was the top rated defender on most boards for the last year.
- Day 1 role as a starting LB. Likely plays Will w LVE becoming LB3.
- Jimmy chart says DAL won trade with 170 point pick 84 for dropping 2 spots which is 100 points. +70 points is pretty extreme.

Cons:
- He is a Cowboys LB... he can run and he can hit but he attacks first action; Ball fakes own him.
- He is a LB period. Positional value is lowest on defense for me.
- He is a bit too concerned with being an alpha dog for me.
- Team now has two Jaylons. Big dudes who play best just attacking or lining up in man coverage versus tight ends/running backs.
- Top 2 CBs probably were a better fit for positional value, immediate return.

Im giving it an A or an A+ depending on who they get with the 84th pick.

Horn=A+
Surtain=A
Parsons=A-
Parsons + 84th pick=A to A+
 

jterrell

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Sturm take:

Positives: This is a robust category for Parsons. He is absolutely a physical freak with a crazy wingspan, size and speed that tell us he is your guy if you just want a banger of a linebacker who will patrol things for a long time at a high level. He is a physical, downhill player who is a real bull in a china shop. He picks through traffic with expert precision and finds his target. He is mobile and finds multiple gaps and plays at high speeds. He wants to take on blocks, play soundly and do all the things you expect of a top linebacker. He usually reads the play and beats the blocks to the ball. He is a real force of nature and his close-down speed is elite.

Concerns: The Ohio State offensive game plan used a lot of misdirection to target him and that gave me some pause, but again, this tape was a true sophomore probably trying to do too much and then having a team feeding him the cheese he liked to eat. That game made me question some processing speed and mental acuity, but the rareness of that tape suggests it was a bad day and a kid trying to do more than he should. The other concern is more of an issue for 2021 and beyond — he doesn’t really cover players from what I can tell, aside from some basic zone drops and while I think you can scheme out quite a bit of it (and also maybe he is capable of it), it should be noted that there is almost no real tape that I can find of Parsons doing much coverage. There are also plenty of whispers that he might have some character concerns off the field that will make teams nervous. While I will acknowledge I know about them, I don’t wish to do more than that since it is merely wild speculation to those of us on the outside.

Overall: I want to resist the urge to use “High First Round” grades on players who do not play premium positions and also players who do not play coverage from a run-and-hit linebacker spot, so I won’t, but I do think when you get past those 7-8 guys who will get them, this is exactly the type of player someone in Dallas’ spot would have a hard time ignoring if they wanted to really take the best player available. He looks freakish and, yes, a difference-maker. FIRST-ROUND grade and probably should have gone higher than that, to be honest.
 

jterrell

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Its a lazy opinion. You watch these guys on film and they do not look nothing alike. Nobody started comparing him to Jaylon until last night. Bobby Wagner also had some flaws as well.
ROFL dude you are saying things that are 100% inaccurate.
Like demonstrably false.
Stop it. It's pointless.
 

ErikWilliamsHeadSlap

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His head coach was with him and his family in the green room last night. Very close with them and speaks highly of him on a personal level. The character issues, if there ever was any, don't appear to be there anymore.

Hopefully his energy and his attitude can give this defense the change it desperately needs. Playing defense is an attitude. And I cant even remember when we had it last. Some more of that attitude at every level turns this defense around 180 degrees.
 

jterrell

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Pre or post injury Jaylon, cause they ain't the same player. Jaylon today is nothing like this kid. Jaylon just runs around with his head down and flapping his arms like a mental patient and doesn't even seem like he is watching what is going on.

A lot of this isn't directed at anyone in particular, but I don't get some people. Our LB play was absolutely atrocious. Jaylon didn't belong on an NFL Field last year. He wasn't bad, he was horrid. He would have been a poor backup. LVE wasn't too much better and seems to be hurt half the time. Our need at LB was as big as our need at DB. This team sucked at all 3 levels last year. We picked a guy that I felt before the draft was the best defensive player in the draft and I certainly was not alone. He may even play some DE in the nickel and could end up better at that than anyone else in the draft. Plus, we got a 3rd rounder to boot. What I love most about this pick is it seems like a scouts pick, not a Jerry pick. Jerry would have forced CB I think. I think too many fans got caught up in the we need a CB discussion and read too many mock drafts and were blinded by just taking the best player you can. The 2 CBs were both gone but this kid is a more talented player than either of them IMO. I'm so happy with this pick. And for those that are too short-sighted to see beyond CB at least pretend you know that the draft is more than one round. And on top of that I hope we take Barmore here and not CB and yes I know we need a corner more than any team in the league, but you try to draft guys that will be stars and 3 tech is also a huge need. Teams didn't even have to pass against us because we couldn't stop the run
ROFL man.
You have a picture of Jaylon in your AVI and yet are howling over his play.
That's just tough to reconcile.

Jaylon leads the team in snaps the last 3 years.
He should have been subbed out more last year but there were no options who were even close to his level which isn't to say he was good but just how bad everyone else was.
Jaylon was a Will that didn't call the defense, then a Mike that did all in a scheme that was a read and react 2 gap with no DTs in front of him all with no off-season or practice.
Trying to argue Jaylon was worse than his back ups last year makes clear you are making emotional arguments and not dealing in reality. .
Yes, he was making tackles 8 yards down the field... while his LB brethren were buried and dead on the play. Those guys couldn't even make it through games.

Go watch Parsons versus Ohio State.
It's worse than anything Jaylon put on tape last year.
OSU just did a ball fake and Fields ran right passed him over and over and over.
So PSU moved him to down edge rusher and he just got handled by the OSU OT.

But certainly in tape versus Memphis he ate them all the way up. Game over domination.

Barmore is a very worthy target at 44 but I'm not sure he's anything more than Gallimore is right now.
He'd be great depth but he's not a plus run stuffer like Urban/AWoods who will play 1T.
He'd be a high ceiling quality DT of the type Dallas took with Hill and Gallimore the last two seasons. With those 3 you'd love that 3 man rotation but I couldn't even tell you'd who'd win the starting job.
He did look great in that championship game but he had some real stinkers.

Getting a starting CB or Safety holds more value for me at 44.
Then potentially adding a DT like Milton Williams who needs a year to redshirt/learn or a Daviyon Nixon who looks as skilled as Barmore but may be a little less polished is probably right about as valuable if not more so given the CB/S could start day 1 and play 80% of your defensive snaps.

I think Parsons can help you and if LVE is really not able to play 16 weeks he is true value add and long term solution.
But I absolutely do not think an off-ball LB rated a 9.5 is better than a CB rated 9.4
Positional value is simply higher at CB for me.
And that's not even factoring in the need score at CB is whatever the highest possible is because today you have.
CB1 - Diggs
CB2 - Brown
CB3 - Lewis
 
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