Why are we running the ball effectively with Rush but not with Dak?

DFWJC said:

1. Better line play.
2. Lessor run defenses

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More of a split, Zeke is a slow hammer, Pollard is a shifty speed back who can turn 5 yards into 50.

CouchCoach said:

Did you think the Joneses would pony up that kind of money and not demand he be made a star to justify it? Booger cannot stand any form of criticism so Moore got his marching orders that Prescott has to be a top tier for the old fool's ego.

No way can Prescott be thought of as a bus driver or a Cousins comparison.

The idiot son went as far as to say Prescott is a top 3 QB and nobody has him close to that level. And that puts additional pressure on Prescott.

I find it interesting that Orlovsky and Young both think they should run the O they're running with Rush for Prescott when he comes back, it is so evident there are two different offenses.

Booger must have stars to market. Did you hear what he said about Parsons? "We've got big plans for Micah Parsons". What a completely ridiculous statement to make, players make their own plans through their play. He's so arrogant, he wants to take some of the shine from Parsons' natural talent. Without our plan, he's just a player.

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great post Coach

kskboys said:

Exactly, I don't care. What I care about is that passhappy crapp needed to stop. And it has, for some unknown reason.

This takes me back to the Murray huge season of 1,800 yds. Before that, we kept going passhappy, and very stupidly. When we finally started handing Murray the ball and focusing on the running game, KABLAM, playoffs and a playoff win. That was 14. Then we let the ploughhorse walk and thought underwear thief and oldy could replace him. I don't care about the yardage, those guys absolutely did not replace what Murray did, not even close.

We're going through such strange times, and always go passhappy, even though we are better w/ a strong running game. It just makes no sense.

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Again...you do realize we ran the ball heavily last year during the first 6 games and then couldnt effectively after that. Its not like this is some new thing we are trying. After the bye, it wasnt thay we didnt try to establish the run, its that because of injuries and the poor play of McGovern that we couldnt run effectively

Blame whoever you like…..

But this offense overall apparently has some sort of tendency to become very predictable.

Many an opponent has said so over the years, and there are times when you’d swear the opposing defense knew what play was called.

Can’t speak for anyone else, but nothing annoys me more as a fan than when that happens and nothing is done about it.

You’d figure it would raise some questions about coaching choices but suppose not.

Running game was working pretty well against Tampa but the OC went away from it. But I gotta say calling more running plays from under center vs shotgun has made a big difference, as well.

stilltheguru said:

You call out zeke but hype up underperformed never been a star Ceedee lol

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CD had a good first two years. Hes also on a rookie deal. Showed up last game after a slow start to the season.

RonnieT24 said:

Well it certainly wasn't Dak who called that damn pass play from the half yard line on first down Monday night.. and it wasn't Dak who called the pass play coming out of the 2 minute break at the end of the game...

Well.. maybe you know something the rest of us don't? Maybe Dak's mic overrode Moore's and HE was the one who called those idiotic plays..

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Chill. I know no more than you. You are a Moore hater perhaps? No one here can know for 100% sure who changes the plays or keeps the the same as called. But you apparently can. So i defer to you for any further football knowledge I may digest here on the zone.

kskboys said:

Exactly, I don't care. What I care about is that passhappy crapp needed to stop. And it has, for some unknown reason.

This takes me back to the Murray huge season of 1,800 yds. Before that, we kept going passhappy, and very stupidly. When we finally started handing Murray the ball and focusing on the running game, KABLAM, playoffs and a playoff win. That was 14. Then we let the ploughhorse walk and thought underwear thief and oldy could replace him. I don't care about the yardage, those guys absolutely did not replace what Murray did, not even close.

We're going through such strange times, and always go passhappy, even though we are better w/ a strong running game. It just makes no sense.

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There’s really only one explanation then. Something CC touched on. Plus we too often abort running game even when it’s having some success. I don’t think Jethro really wants to have an over paid 40 million QB who’s just a bus driver.

And we know Moore is a puppet under Jethro’s wing. And Prescott is much like his owner blabbing his mouth too much with all the hype . He’s probably going along with the passing scheme .

We also must acknowledge when we get behind we seem to get away from running the ball. And the better defenses who are able still knowing stopping the run is the key to beating us forcing Dak to go over the top. That’s been a core strategy since the end of his Rookie season. It’s a weakness that’s exploited by the defenses that are able .

I think we try to prove that wrong by opening up passing sometimes . And then never get back to running the ball. Nothing else makes sense to answer your questions .. why.

darthseinfeld said:

Again...you do realize we ran the ball heavily last year during the first 6 games and then couldnt effectively after that. Its not like this is some new thing we are trying. After the bye, it wasnt thay we didnt try to establish the run, its that because of injuries and the poor play of McGovern that we couldnt run effectively

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I don't think it's near that simple.

StuckMojo said:

It seemed we ran more plays from under center which I think fits Zeke’s style of running. It also helps with play action and keeps the D honest. One thing I noticed though was several plays Rush would kill a play and majority of time it was a slow handoff behind LG, which I think is our weakest blocker.

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Is there *any* running back who looks better taking the handoff from a standing start next to a QB in shotgun?

thunderpimp91 said:

This could easily turn into a 10 page thread as the answer really isnt super simple.

1) Zeke being injured last year really hurt our ability to run
2) So far this year Tampa Bay was by far the best run defense we have faced
3) Dak has a tendency to check out of runs more often than Cooper Rush has shown so far
4) Very possible KM took more of a "back to basics" approach once Rush became the starter
5) Fewer penalties the last couple weeks - fewer situations of 10+ yards to go means more ability to run the football
6) We are seeing more downfield attempts right now than we have in recent Dak history. - This one may be incorrect as I didnt look up the data, but it certainly feels like Rush is taking more shots down field, and even those mid range throws.

and the list can go on and on. I have a ton of ideas as to why, but I struggle to pin point just once answer.

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Voting number 3. Dak get pass happy and changes plays instead of changing the blocking assignments on called runs.

JBond said:

Voting number 3. Dak get pass happy and changes plays instead of changing the blocking assignments on called runs.

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While I think it's probably true that Dak changes more runs to pass plays.. it's not like he doesn't sit in the meeting rooms with Moore all week and go over what he (Moore) wants in certain situations. I think Dak is carrying out Moore's plan.. I also think Rush is carrying out Moore's plan.. however the plan with Rush in the game is a good deal more conservative. To me that's really the long and the short of it. They have been calling way more plays under center while Rush has been starting.. which has energized the running game.. which has in turn unleashed the play action game. Go back at the number of times we have run on back to back plays in these last two games. Then remember that over a 5 or 6 game stretch last season we never did it more than once in a game. If they did the same with Dak both of these last two games would have been blowouts in our favor and we might have even beaten Tampa. If in fact Moore continues to call plays this way going forward (deleting the dumb pass play on first and goal at the 1 and on 3rd and inches) then this team will not only win more games it will dominate them. We will just have to see how long both Moore and Dak can stay patient with the run when he gets back.

buybuydandavis said:

Is there *any* running back who looks better taking the handoff from a standing start next to a QB in shotgun?

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The best example is Barry Sanders. dude almost never wanted to just run north-south. There have been others but he is easily the most obvious..

thunderpimp91 said:

This could easily turn into a 10 page thread as the answer really isnt super simple.

1) Zeke being injured last year really hurt our ability to run
2) So far this year Tampa Bay was by far the best run defense we have faced
3) Dak has a tendency to check out of runs more often than Cooper Rush has shown so far
4) Very possible KM took more of a "back to basics" approach once Rush became the starter
5) Fewer penalties the last couple weeks - fewer situations of 10+ yards to go means more ability to run the football
6) We are seeing more downfield attempts right now than we have in recent Dak history. - This one may be incorrect as I didnt look up the data, but it certainly feels like Rush is taking more shots down field, and even those mid range throws.

and the list can go on and on. I have a ton of ideas as to why, but I struggle to pin point just once answer.

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#6 is directly affected by being able to run the ball, when a team can not sit back in 7 man coverage and stop the run its going to open up the passing game. Rush certainly took some shots Monday night could've had a better night had lamb hauled in the first one.

I'll say it for you, pre-snap reads, and pre-snap motions.

The last two games, Kellen Moore has been doing what made him unique in the first place. Moving guys around on the line before the snap, silent counts, hard counts, etc. and just making better adjustments and audibles.. Better game-planning.

Dallasfann said:

I don't know if many people in this forum know this but, most QB's can choose to run or pass it depending on the look of the defense. In fact, a lot of times there are 2 plays given to the QB through the head set. A run play and a pass play. The QB then looks at a defense and decides which option might work better. Dak doesn't know what's going to work better. Cooper can read a defense and goes with his best option. The problem teams are having right now, is they think Cooper will sell out on the run being a back up, but if you give him the pass play he's going to throw it.

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Excellent post. Exactly right.

Haimerej said:

We know Moore's offense is ran off of presnap reads. I think the better defenses have picked up on Dak's tendencies and have a way of forcing him into doing what they want. I think we saw that in the playoff game, the AZ game, and the Bucs game this year.

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Yep, you and I talked about his after game 1. Best conversation I've had with someone all year.