Why are we running the ball effectively with Rush but not with Dak?

[Blast From The Past]

But Kellen has a thing for dak throwing it 60 times a game

And you know for a fact that Dak isn't calling the pass plays at the line?

 

[Diehardblues]

Yeah he talks a lot. Don't see how that reinforces your opinion that he's forcing Moore to make Dak throw the ball, especially when he's on record saying the offense runs through Zeke.

Saying one thing doing another wouldn’t be a surprise.

 

[Haimerej]

Saying one thing doing another wouldn’t be a surprise.

At the same time, you've got Dak talking about what he can do better after watching from the sidelines. I'm not defending Jerry here just saying he doesn't call plays.

 

[RonnieT24]

We ran the ball effectively last year the first half of the season before Elliott injury and the OL fell apart. 4 out of our first 5 games we had over 160 yards rushing. 2 of them were were over 200 and 1 was 190. After Elliott and Smith got hurt, and we moved McGovern to LG our running game fell apart.

Its not a Prescott, Rush thing. In fact we didnt even rush for 80 yards the game Rush started

We also only gave up 16 points. A tiny little fact that seems to get overlooked a lot when people talk about that game. If the defense only gave up 16 points ever game Dak would have a winning percentage over 90.. People really need to keep their eyes on the simple fact that this is a team game.. and always will be. We need to stop looking for simple answers to complex questions.

 

[RonnieT24]

I don't. I'm interested in the why of things, which is why you don't see me much in the Dak spats.

Cooper knows how to play QB better than Dak. I believe that is a fact. Dak is more physically talented. That is a fact.

Now, can Dak run this type of O? I'm not convinced that he can, but I would absolutely love to see it go that way. This type O is plain and simple much more conducive to winning in the playoffs. If this is truly the problem, then by all that's holy change the O to this.

BTW, Cooper is strictly a backup type, not a starter. Just want to be clear on that.

If this were true then he would lead the offense to more than 20 points.. he'd have a higher completion percentage and a higher TD ratio to go with a lower INT rate. But maybe what you are saying is that Cooper will someday make a great QB coach/offensive coordinator but his physical toolset will never allow him to actually play the position at a high level?

But your final point is well taken.. This offense functions best when it is balanced.. Hell just about any offense does.. but in our case the contrast is so stark it's jarring to the eye. And it always leaves one wondering why the hell we don't stay committed to the run more than we do? Is it Moore getting cute with passes in situations where they make zero sense? Like a pass from the 18 inch line or a pass on 3rd down under two minutes with you holding a one score lead when a run would have all but salted the game away? Sequences like those are why I put less blame on Dak and more on Moore for our offense being unbalanced and pass happy. Even in a game where both running backs were averaging at or above 5 ypc he still called pass plays at STUPID times. And he can't throw Dak under the bus claiming he audibled out of the run in either situation.. If either of those backfires and we lose would he have offered up Rush as sacrifice to the mediots on Tuesday morning?

 

[Praxit]

..not fair to say that. Dak played everyones first game. Some bearings needed more oil, some replaced, some exchanged..etc

I will say this. Dak getting thumb banged up,was blessing in disquise for the offense.

Moore tweaked the offense for Rush, which now should benefit Dak as well.

 

[kskboys]

If this were true then he would lead the offense to more than 20 points.. he'd have a higher completion percentage and a higher TD ratio to go with a lower INT rate. But maybe what you are saying is that Cooper will someday make a great QB coach/offensive coordinator but his physical toolset will never allow him to actually play the position at a high level?

But your final point is well taken.. This offense functions best when it is balanced.. Hell just about any offense does.. but in our case the contrast is so stark it's jarring to the eye. And it always leaves one wondering why the hell we don't stay committed to the run more than we do? Is it Moore getting cute with passes in situations where they make zero sense? Like a pass from the 18 inch line or a pass on 3rd down under two minutes with you holding a one score lead when a run would have all but salted the game away? Sequences like those are why I put less blame on Dak and more on Moore for our offense being unbalanced and pass happy. Even in a game where both running backs were averaging at or above 5 ypc he still called pass plays at STUPID times. And he can't throw Dak under the bus claiming he audibled out of the run in either situation.. If either of those backfires and we lose would he have offered up Rush as sacrifice to the mediots on Tuesday morning?

First paragraph: None of that, Ron. Cooper understands how to run the O, but lacks the physical ability to do so at a high level. He'll be exposed at some point, no doubt in my mind. No coming greatness involved, strictly a backup. Oh, greatness as a coach? Hard to say. From what I'm seeing, guys who are are loaded w/ the IT factor generally don't make good coaches because you cannot teach what they possess.

2nd paragraph: You're asking questions that I'm having major problems grasping. I'm not a side taker at all, especially in the utter ridiculous QB spats. I'm interested in why, and whether things will be changed when Dak comes back, and if not, why?

 

[RonnieT24]

..not fair to say that. Dak played everyones first game. Some bearings needed more oil, some replaced, some exchanged..etc

I will say this. Dak getting thumb banged up,was blessing in disquise for the offense.

Moore tweaked the offense for Rush, which now should benefit Dak as well.

He certainly has called way more running plays especially more with the QB under center. That absolutely gives our backs a chance to take the handoff with a head of steam which I firmly believe is the biggest differentiator in how effective the running game has been overall. It also bears noting that the young lads at tight end are much better at blocking than Schultz.. They just are.. We have seen very little of those plays where the backside DE is left to blow up the play on the stupid delay handoff. The backs are at least getting to the line of scrimmage unmolested which is a huge improvement over much of last season.

 

[kskboys]

He certainly has called way more running plays especially more with the QB under center. That absolutely gives our backs a chance to take the handoff with a head of steam which I firmly believe is the biggest differentiator in how effective the running game has been overall. It also bears noting that the young lads at tight end are much better at blocking than Schultz.. They just are.. We have seen very little of those plays where the backside DE is left to blow up the play on the stupid delay handoff. The backs are at least getting to the line of scrimmage unmolested which is a huge improvement over much of last season.

Yes they are, and why? We've all seen(unless one is biased/agenda driven) how our RBs get met in the backfield way too often. And suddenly, they're not. Why?

 

[RonnieT24]

First paragraph: None of that, Ron. Cooper understands how to run the O, but lacks the physical ability to do so at a high level. He'll be exposed at some point, no doubt in my mind. No coming greatness involved, strictly a backup. Oh, greatness as a coach? Hard to say. From what I'm seeing, guys who are are loaded w/ the IT factor generally don't make good coaches because you cannot teach what they possess.

2nd paragraph: You're asking questions that I'm having major problems grasping. I'm not a side taker at all, especially in the utter ridiculous QB spats. I'm interested in why, and whether things will be changed when Dak comes back, and if not, why?

I agree Rush is a quality backup... nothing more.. nothing less.. I see him as maybe Dak's version of Gary Kubiak. I think I already covered the why.. I believe Moore thinks that in any given situation passing the ball is superior to running it. Yards are yards and in most instances pass plays gain more yards than running plays.. And I believe he has passed that belief on to Dak. I don't know if Rush is simply less inclined to audible away from run plays than Dak is or if Moore gives him a shorter leash. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter. When he gets back on the field Dak surely will have seen that this running game can be his best friend and he needs to not be so quick to check out of them. I always come back to Romo at the end.. when he finally figured out how to tell if the defense was trying to bluff him into checking out of the run .. so he would wait until the last second, catch them bailing and run right at them. Dak absolutely has to make that turn. If he continues to want to check to pass plays when he has two tight ends and one receiver in the game he's going to be standing back there waiting to be sacked a lot.

 

[RonnieT24]

Yes they are, and why? We've all seen(unless one is biased/agenda driven) how our RBs get met in the backfield way too often. And suddenly, they're not. Why?

I attribute it to the tight ends improved blocking and running less of the delay handoffs. If the play lets the back hit the line downhill even if the DE beats the tight end he likely won't be able to get more than just a hand on the back because the back will be moving 100 mph before he gets there instead of standing still. It's play calling.. People who hate Dak say it's Dak.. people who love Dak say it's Moore. I don't care who it is.. I just want it to stay like it is now even when Dak returns..

 

[RonnieT24]

And you know for a fact that Dak isn't calling the pass plays at the line?

Well it certainly wasn't Dak who called that damn pass play from the half yard line on first down Monday night.. and it wasn't Dak who called the pass play coming out of the 2 minute break at the end of the game...

Well.. maybe you know something the rest of us don't? Maybe Dak's mic overrode Moore's and HE was the one who called those idiotic plays..

 

[Portnoy1]

Something interesting I noticed is Coopers quick throw to Ceedee when the CB is 10 yards off letting him get a sure catch (getting him involved immediately) and also giving him yac opportunity. In addition the Toss against the blitz on 3rd and long was a thing of beauty. I don't understand why that is not being done with Dak. I could care less he is making 40million. QBs aren't cheap. But it doesn't mean you drop back 50 times if it doesn't get you wins

 

[kskboys]

I attribute it to the tight ends improved blocking and running less of the delay handoffs. If the play lets the back hit the line downhill even if the DE beats the tight end he likely won't be able to get more than just a hand on the back because the back will be moving 100 mph before he gets there instead of standing still. It's play calling.. People who hate Dak say it's Dak.. people who love Dak say it's Moore. I don't care who it is.. I just want it to stay like it is now even when Dak returns..

Exactly, I don't care. What I care about is that passhappy crapp needed to stop. And it has, for some unknown reason.

This takes me back to the Murray huge season of 1,800 yds. Before that, we kept going passhappy, and very stupidly. When we finally started handing Murray the ball and focusing on the running game, KABLAM, playoffs and a playoff win. That was 14. Then we let the ploughhorse walk and thought underwear thief and oldy could replace him. I don't care about the yardage, those guys absolutely did not replace what Murray did, not even close.

We're going through such strange times, and always go passhappy, even though we are better w/ a strong running game. It just makes no sense.

 

[Cboyfan4ever]

You are.. Moore did this exact same thing in games 2-5 last year.. ironically after Jerry called him out for not running it against Tampa.. just like McCarthy did this year.. Moore is going to revert to his usual 70% play self at the first opportunity. He can't help himself.. Book it.

It obviously doesn’t work throwing that much w/ that QB.Right now they have good balance and some better creativity in the run game.If it ain’t broke……….Is it Kellen or is it Jerry?Or does Kellen just feel pressured to try to make Dak look better to justify his contract knowing Jerruh wants to get his money’s worth?

 

[RonnieT24]

It obviously doesn’t work throwing that much w/ that QB.Right now they have good balance and some better creativity in the run game.If it ain’t broke……….Is it Kellen or is it Jerry?Or does Kellen just feel pressured to try to make Dak look better to justify his contract knowing Jerruh wants to get his money’s worth?

Moore is pass happy plain and simple. The way we were running the ball Monday night both Zeke and Pollard should have had 20 carries. All this conjecture about justifying contracts and what not is pointless and off base IMHO. Rush is an old WAC/Mountain West QB.. He wants to sling it around.. He has passed that desire to sling it around on to Dak. If it was about justifying contracts then wouldn't he also make sure Zeke got 20 carries every game? Wouldn't he have made sure Amari Cooper got 15 targets every game? The contract nonsense is just a convenient excuse. Rush wants to pass it 50 times a game and he doesn't understand the value of matchups in the passing game nor the strategic importance of staying with the run throughout the game. It has everything to do with philosophy and next to nothing to do with money.

 

[zrinkill]

Rush runs the play that's called.

 

[stilltheguru]

LOL.........there you go calling Zeke a beast again.

You call out zeke but hype up underperformed never been a star Ceedee lol

 

[Diehardblues]

At the same time, you've got Dak talking about what he can do better after watching from the sidelines. I'm not defending Jerry here just saying he doesn't call plays.

I agree. Prescott is running his mouth off too which isn’t a good idea. Basically following Jethro’s hype it up mantra.

And while he doesn’t call plays he can dictate or at least influence a scheme .

 

[DFWJC]

1. Better line play.
2. Lessor run defenses