Why are we running the ball effectively with Rush but not with Dak?

[Hadenough]

Why are we running the ball effectively w/ Rush, but mostly could not do so w/ Dak? I absolutely cannot wrap my head around this one. What's the big difference? Does Dak have a tell? I mean, we're just not seeing defenders meeting RB's in the backfield as we did before.

Any ideas?

You can't run the ball on 1st and 2nd down and have 3rd down and 3 and have Dak be 50/50 on those 3rd down throws. He needs 2 throws because of his accuracy issues. Plus Rush is proving he can beat the defense with throws over the top. Their not deep throws but accurate mid range throws. Defenses just move up and dare Dak to march the team 15 plays down field with quick throws.

 

[McKDaddy]

Why are we running the ball effectively w/ Rush, but mostly could not do so w/ Dak? I absolutely cannot wrap my head around this one. What's the big difference?

First & foremost, the QB is playing within the design of the play call. He is delivering the ball where & when it is called for to hit the "window" the play was designed to create.

Defenses are having to actually play the pass at all levels. Dak often doesn't take throws because either he can't read quickly enough or he knows he isn't accurate enough to trust it or both. Defenses know that & are just sitting on the routes he will throw while keying on the run.

Yes, I think the Oline is starting to get a groove run blocking and yes the backs are healthy right now. But I don't think any of that matters if the defense doesn't respect that the ball could go anywhere.

 

[Blitzen]

Why are we running the ball effectively w/ Rush, but mostly could not do so w/ Dak? I absolutely cannot wrap my head around this one. What's the big difference? Does Dak have a tell? I mean, we're just not seeing defenders meeting RB's in the backfield as we did before.

Any ideas?

You probably will not get a straight answer to this. We will not get real information regarding which plays are called and which ones are checked out of.

In my opinion, Dak feels the need to check out of run plays at times to increase numbers via passing attack. Last year, there were several games that were already extremely lopsided where our offense was still checking to pass plays when the other team was already out of the stadium mentally. There is rarely a necessity in scoring over 50 points in a game (the Cowboys did it twice in blowout fashion [once vs backups] and blew out two other teams scoring over 40 points) last year. This also skews the stat sheet.

I suppose I could put together a stat summary showing average points per game scored by the offense AND show standard deviation for Dallas compared to other top squads to get an idea of how repeatable the offensive production actually is.

You will get plenty of people laying the blame at KM’s feet, but those same individuals rarely give him much credit for being OC of the top offense two of his three seasons. Because the big losses came in big moments and the offense could not muster those big points totals against great defenses (and since they will not be blaming Dak for checking out of run plays-who will they blame?).

 

[baltcowboy]

Did you think the Joneses would pony up that kind of money and not demand he be made a star to justify it? Booger cannot stand any form of criticism so Moore got his marching orders that Prescott has to be a top tier for the old fool's ego.

No way can Prescott be thought of as a bus driver or a Cousins comparison.

The idiot son went as far as to say Prescott is a top 3 QB and nobody has him close to that level. And that puts additional pressure on Prescott.

I find it interesting that Orlovsky and Young both think they should run the O they're running with Rush for Prescott when he comes back, it is so evident there are two different offenses.

Booger must have stars to market. Did you hear what he said about Parsons? "We've got big plans for Micah Parsons". What a completely ridiculous statement to make, players make their own plans through their play. He's so arrogant, he wants to take some of the shine from Parsons' natural talent. Without our plan, he's just a player.

Jerrah and family made a billion dollars last season that they did not have to share with the other owners off of marketing the Cowboys. The guy is a marketing genius. Nobody was talking about the Cowboys last week on the talk shows, so he decided to make a quarterback controversy. The Cowboys are once again the talk of the media.

 

[RonnieT24]

All this noise about Dak not reading defenses or unable to throw the ball accurately is comical. The guy is one of 7th or 8th highest rated passers in NFL history. He has one of the highest career completion percentages of all time as well. Just stop it.. The reason we don't run the ball as much when he is under center is simple.. He and Moore believe that passing the ball on any given play in any given situation is superior to running it. On the surface they are correct.. Pass plays typically average more yards per play than do running plays. What they don't take into account is the strategic aspect of running the ball. Not only does running the ball keep the defense honest and thus make it easier to pass it, running also exacts a much higher physical toll on the defensive front while allowing your offensive front to be the hit-TER instead of the hit-TEE..

Thing is, defenses know these things as well. And over time they have learned that if you crowd the line early and induce the Cowboys to go away from the run early in games you won't have to defend the run the rest of the way. Because that's a one way street for Moore and by extension Dak. Once they make up their minds that "we can't run the ball" we're throwing it every down from there on and this offense has been rendered completely one dimensional. I won't sit here and claim I know if it's more on Dak or more on Moore that we do this.. The reason I lean more to the latter is that it's his offense.. and if passing every down is failing it's up to him to grab Dak by the ear and say "run the damn ball I don't care if they put 10 guys in the box." The audible sometimes need to be from one running play to a better running play.

We all remember Moore throwing Dak under the bus for audibling out of 12 of 28 called run plays against Tampa last year.. What he didn't mention was the fact that they had spent all week going over the looks that he should audible out of.. so Dak was following the damn game plan. I have said for at least three years that this team will not get where it wants to go until Dak takes the reigns of the offense and stops believing Moore is some football genius. He needs to develop that sense of knowing when the defense is trying to okie doke him out of the run.. and mind F them by running it at the bailing linebackers.. Until he does that the good DCs are always going to be able to slow this offense down. Because these stupid 3 man routes against 7 guys dropping into coverage is a formula for failure. Yes it can still be successful against chump teams.. but good teams will neuter you every time.

 

[Ren]

Tampa has a really good defense

 

[darthseinfeld]

Why are we running the ball effectively w/ Rush, but mostly could not do so w/ Dak? I absolutely cannot wrap my head around this one. What's the big difference? Does Dak have a tell? I mean, we're just not seeing defenders meeting RB's in the backfield as we did before.

Any ideas?

We only played with Dak for about a half a game this season

 

[DandyDon52]

Well for one, they have finally been running with the QB under center. Zeke or Pollard in the I formation. They can see the line play from seven yards back and see the defense as well. Look for the hole. Less shotgun. Of course the OL playing better helps too.

thats what I noticed in the giants game, rush was under center quite a bit it seemed, and that changes run plays.
maybe rush makes the better reads and calls.
Also they were running with help from tyler and peters, peters is a big dude lol. Also more pollard , more runs = better overall effect.

 

[kskboys]

Don't.. the simple fact of the matter is we run a very different offense when the two are in. One guy leads the offense to 400+ yards and 30+ points with regularity while the other guy is fortunate to get to 20. If we used this game plan with Dak at QB (like we saw in weeks 2-5 last year) we get the best of both worlds.. An offense that can grind the opposition to paste but a QB who can light them up for 400 yards and 4 TDs at a moment's notice. The biggest problem is getting Moore to recognize that we don't need to play every game like we need 400 yards and 4 TDs out of Dak.. because we don't. We have two very good running backs and an offensive line that appears to be much improved at least in run blocking.. and I think having a couple of tight ends who don't whiff on the backside end regularly is making all the difference. The younguns are already better blockers than Schultz.. and neither appears to be a liability catching the ball either.. Hope Schultz invests his 11 million well.. He will not be getting another contract for that kind of money..

I don't. I'm interested in the why of things, which is why you don't see me much in the Dak spats.

Cooper knows how to play QB better than Dak. I believe that is a fact. Dak is more physically talented. That is a fact.

Now, can Dak run this type of O? I'm not convinced that he can, but I would absolutely love to see it go that way. This type O is plain and simple much more conducive to winning in the playoffs. If this is truly the problem, then by all that's holy change the O to this.

BTW, Cooper is strictly a backup type, not a starter. Just want to be clear on that.

 

[kskboys]

We only played with Dak for about a half a game this season

This goes way back. I'm not the type to jump to solid conclusions based on small samples.

 

[kskboys]

Did you think the Joneses would pony up that kind of money and not demand he be made a star to justify it? Booger cannot stand any form of criticism so Moore got his marching orders that Prescott has to be a top tier for the old fool's ego.

No way can Prescott be thought of as a bus driver or a Cousins comparison.

The idiot son went as far as to say Prescott is a top 3 QB and nobody has him close to that level. And that puts additional pressure on Prescott.

I find it interesting that Orlovsky and Young both think they should run the O they're running with Rush for Prescott when he comes back, it is so evident there are two different offenses.

Booger must have stars to market. Did you hear what he said about Parsons? "We've got big plans for Micah Parsons". What a completely ridiculous statement to make, players make their own plans through their play. He's so arrogant, he wants to take some of the shine from Parsons' natural talent. Without our plan, he's just a player.

Ick. W/ this clusterfudge of an org, unfortunately this is possible.

 

[kskboys]

Cracks me up people believe teams respect/fear Dak able to beat teams deep on a consistent basis. Hence...teams crowd the line daring Dak. Rush on the other hand...is able to hit that window on the deep fade route....not only hit it...but puts it right on the money.

I find merit in this.

 

[kskboys]

Dak is a selfish QB that audibles out of the run far too often so he can 'be the man'. Yes Moore is crap but Dak doesn't help.

It does help that D's don't have the same tape on Rush.. which is the same argument of why Romo should have got his job back all those years ago.. Dak looked great because he was in a situation to look great. We just lost our minds and here we sit five years later.. with an overpaid dud of a QB and nothing to show for a very talented roster.

I have always maintained that Daks early career success was on the back of Zeke being a dominant back at the time. It still holds true.. Dak only looks good when our running game looks good. Unfortunately EVERY team knows to clog up the run and force Dak to beat you with his arm.. most of the time he fails in that assignment.

Rush has already shown that he will throw the ball wide and often.. spreading out the defence and allowing our backs to hit holes.

The truly scary thing is that Rush does look better than Dak.. and Rush is not a very good NFL QB..

Sounds right.

People lost their minds over Dak as a rook. His numbers, however, screamed bus driver. 3667 yds w/ 24 TD's is not stellar. Good, yes, but not mind blowing.

 

[CouchCoach]

Wasn't Jerry catching crap for saying the offense runs through Zeke?

Do you actually take anything seriously he says? He says what either pops into his head or whatever is convenient.

The fact is he talks more than all of the other 31 GM’s combined and he lacks the ability to think on his feet and always shoots from the lip.

 

[aikemirv]

We ran the ball effective game 1. Just too many penalties to keep running. More penalties, less first downs, less opportunities

 

[kskboys]

First & foremost, the QB is playing within the design of the play call. He is delivering the ball where & when it is called for to hit the "window" the play was designed to create.

Defenses are having to actually play the pass at all levels. Dak often doesn't take throws because either he can't read quickly enough or he knows he isn't accurate enough to trust it or both. Defenses know that & are just sitting on the routes he will throw while keying on the run.

Yes, I think the Oline is starting to get a groove run blocking and yes the backs are healthy right now. But I don't think any of that matters if the defense doesn't respect that the ball could go anywhere.

Yes and no. The QB has many options w/i the design of the play, mostly based on reading the D. After watching a backup type QB run the O better, it appears that Dak has issues reading the D. Don't miss the fact that Cooper is letting go of the ball at a rate faster than any other QB in the NFL. He's throwing the ball either at or before the break of the WR.

 

[Diehardblues]

Yes and no. The QB has many options w/i the design of the play, mostly based on reading the D. After watching a backup type QB run the O better, it appears that Dak has issues reading the D. Don't miss the fact that Cooper is letting go of the ball at a rate faster than any other QB in the NFL. He's throwing the ball either at or before the break of the WR.

So, if this is all about the inefficiency and incompetence of Prescott then this will be one of the greatest over estimates of talent in recent history .

If this was just a horrid oversight by our dysfunctional ownership which wouldn’t surprise me but our coaching staff, most of his harshest critics who even placed him in 10th-15th ranked and his peers who just placed him in top 100 of the league .

 

[Haimerej]

Do you actually take anything seriously he says? He says what either pops into his head or whatever is convenient.

The fact is he talks more than all of the other 31 GM’s combined and he lacks the ability to think on his feet and always shoots from the lip.

Yeah he talks a lot. Don't see how that reinforces your opinion that he's forcing Moore to make Dak throw the ball, especially when he's on record saying the offense runs through Zeke.

 

[KJJ]

We played a stout Buccaneers defense in the opener that was tough to run against. Plus we got behind and had to try to find a way to put some points on the board. With Rush at QB we’ve been committed to running the ball. However the lack of an explosive passing game is keeping our score down. Your QB throwing only one TD pass a week isn’t going to cut it for very long.

 

[darthseinfeld]

This goes way back. I'm not the type to jump to solid conclusions based on small samples.

We ran the ball effectively last year the first half of the season before Elliott injury and the OL fell apart. 4 out of our first 5 games we had over 160 yards rushing. 2 of them were were over 200 and 1 was 190. After Elliott and Smith got hurt, and we moved McGovern to LG our running game fell apart.

Its not a Prescott, Rush thing. In fact we didnt even rush for 80 yards the game Rush started