Twitter: WR coach Sanjay Lal: Being able to hit those deep balls in games is going to change everything

ABQCOWBOY

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If you franchise him your looking at over 30 mill on the year. I think Cowboys can do a contract and structure it in a way that gives him some security and the Cowboys an out. SF did it with Jimmy Garoppolo, a QB who has done nothing so far and yet is making $27,500,000 a year but SF also gives themselves a bit of an out in how the deal is structured.

27.5 is still cheaper then 30 but the idea would be to lock him in if you truly knew he was the next Roger or Troy. If you know that, then I don't mind paying him 30 because he's worth every cent if you know that. That's the problem right? We don't know if he's the next in line. We only know that we are paying him like it if he gets 30. Sends a bad message to me but like I said, it's not my decision.
 

Doomsday101

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27.5 is still cheaper then 30 but the idea would be to lock him in if you truly knew he was the next Roger or Troy. If you know that, then I don't mind paying him 30 because he's worth every cent if you know that. That's the problem right? We don't know if he's the next in line. We only know that we are paying him like it if he gets 30. Sends a bad message to me but like I said, it's not my decision.

Right now there is no offer there is talk and rumors. Yes 27.5 is cheaper and that was back in feb of 2018 and like all other contract it continues to grow every year. I don't agree with it either but it the way it is. Troy and Roger did not deal in the day and age of FA, Aikman a little bit Roger there was no cap and no FA so we had him for pennies given how cheap Tex was but players had little options. I hope to see a deal done between Dallas and Dak that allows some give and take from both sides
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Right now there is no offer there is talk and rumors. Yes 27.5 is cheaper and that was back in feb of 2018 and like all other contract it continues to grow every year. I don't agree with it either but it the way it is. Troy and Roger did not deal in the day and age of FA, Aikman a little bit Roger there was no cap and no FA so we had him for pennies given how cheap Tex was but players had little options. I hope to see a deal done between Dallas and Dak that allows some give and take from both sides

It's money well spent if he's the next Roger or Troy. It's another back breaking decision made by the Jones' that will effectively kill the most talented team we've had in Dallas since the Jimmy J days, if he's not. It's worth the money, even if it's more then 30 if the's the next guy. It's a Franchise killer if he's not.
 
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lane

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Aikmans favorite receiver was actually Jay Novachek, not irving.
Troy had 2 # 1's out wide, harper and irving, great TE in Novachek, then Emmitt who was great runner, but also they used that swing pass to emmitt
very good too. And he would often surprise D by throwing to Johnston.

Aikman used to miss on his deep throws too, but in big/or playoff games he tended to play and throw better than usual , and I think that is why he has 3 rings.

However if you look at troy in the 91 playoff game in detroit, he looks worse than dak.
Both he and buerline overthrew open guys on deep routes.
Novacek
Irvin
Beuerlein
 

boysfaninMI

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He will hit them. It just Dak and Gallup having another offseason to work on it. Gallup has a great stop and go that throws defenders a step behind. Dak sees that and can hit him before the pass gets too deep and it’s on.

I think...and hope that you are right. I can't count how many times they JUST missed last year: 15? Hit about 8-10 of those this year and it would be huge. Not just in terms of scoring more but Dak's confidence to hit more with Coop and other WR's too. He can do it, just has to hit a few and get the ball rolling. I do think our Oline will be better this year, especially if FredBeard comes back fully healthy
 

HoplessCowboysFan36

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Dak must improve on his deep passes. It doesn't matter how open the receiver is down field if you can't hit him

I agree 100 percent, I will say this though, when you go back and rewatch a lot of those missed deep balls some of them was the reciever and not the throw.
I am not saying Dak dint miss a bunch. He over threw quite a few of them. EXPERIENCE CAN FIX THAT. Despite what most on this forum think.
 

Melonfeud

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If you franchise him your looking at over 30 mill on the year. I think Cowboys can do a contract and structure it in a way that gives him some security and the Cowboys an out. SF did it with Jimmy Garoppolo, a QB who has done nothing so far and yet is making $27,500,000 a year but SF also gives themselves a bit of an out in how the deal is structured.
Kirk Cousin's illuminated with a flaming fire axe recently, that short-cutt to the blazing bank-roll trailo_O
 

links18

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So, is this an admission they haven't been hitting them?
 

keysersoze

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Dak must improve on his deep passes. It doesn't matter how open the receiver is down field if you can't hit him
Now Dak can’t hit the deep throws? I thought you all said he couldn’t hit the intermediate ones across the middle? Well damn!! What can Dak do? SMDH. You guys always come up with some new bs. Dak actually throws a pretty good deep ball. The timing between him and his new WR core was a bit off at times. But that all gets better with practice.
 

DandyDon52

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Jay was a big part but Irvin receptions total are far higher that Novachek including 7 season of 1,000 plus yards. Irvin was the main target by far
by Favorite, I didnt mean he (jay) got more targets or receptions, but was who Aikman looked for on 3rd and 5 or in crunch situations.
here are the stats for 91-93
91
Michael Irvin 93 no target info
Jay Novacek 59
Alvin Harper 20
Kelvin Martin 16


92
Michael Irvin 122-78 44 inc
Jay Novacek 99-68 31
Alvin Harper 77-35 42
Kelvin Martin 47-32 15



93
Michael Irvin 143-88 55 inc
Jay Novacek 69-44 25
Alvin Harper 67-36 31
Kevin Williams 30-20 10

as you can see, Jay was more likely to make the catch, and in 92 irvin only had 10 more receptions than Jay.
In 91 playoff game they said Jay was Aikmans go to guy, but when beurline took over for 6 games, his guy was Irvin.
In I think the 1st SB Jay caught the first TD pass not Irvin.

Romo and Witten were similar for many years, Witten was his go to guy, not downfield but in drives, Irvin and Dez were the downfield
big play guys, but were not as dependable in making the catch, as the TE's were.

Last season the 3 TE had 85 catches, and cole who was the leading receiver lol had 87 catches.
So Dak was going to the TE alot too. He just had 3 guys not one.
 

DandyDon52

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IRVIN!! For crying out loud. Google 90's Cowboys and get some education. But, yes. Novachek was a favorite for Aikman.
by Favorite, I didnt mean he (jay) got more targets or receptions, but was who Aikman looked for on 3rd and 5 or in crunch situations.
here are the stats for 91-93
91
Michael Irvin 93 no target info
Jay Novacek 59
Alvin Harper 20
Kelvin Martin 16


92
Michael Irvin 122-78 44 inc
Jay Novacek 99-68 31
Alvin Harper 77-35 42
Kelvin Martin 47-32 15



93
Michael Irvin 143-88 55 inc
Jay Novacek 69-44 25
Alvin Harper 67-36 31
Kevin Williams 30-20 10

as you can see, Jay was more likely to make the catch, and in 92 irvin only had 10 more receptions than Jay.
In 91 playoff game they said Jay was Aikmans go to guy, but when beurline took over for 6 games, his guy was Irvin.
In I think the 1st SB Jay caught the first TD pass not Irvin.

Romo and Witten were similar for many years, Witten was his go to guy, not downfield but in drives, Irvin and Dez were the downfield
big play guys, but were not as dependable in making the catch, as the TE's were.

Last season the 3 TE had 85 catches, and cole who was the leading receiver lol had 87 catches.
So Dak was going to the TE alot too. He just had 3 guys not one.
 

DandyDon52

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Now Dak can’t hit the deep throws? I thought you all said he couldn’t hit the intermediate ones across the middle? Well damn!! What can Dak do? SMDH. You guys always come up with some new bs. Dak actually throws a pretty good deep ball. The timing between him and his new WR core was a bit off at times. But that all gets better with practice.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2018.htm
good site to look at qb/wr stats just change the year in url to go back to other years
gallup had 68 targets and 33 catches, so caught a little less than half. Cole was the leading rec and he wasnt really a deep guy.
The 3 TE group, and beasly caught most of the passes, 65 for cole, and 65 for the TE's hurns had 20 catches.
Amari had 76 targets. and 53 catches in the half season he played here. That was pretty good for the 8 games only 23 inc.
Beasly was good too, only 22 inc 87 targets, 65 catches
 

PhillyCowboysFan

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Read the defense
Anticipate where the receiver WILL BE
Step up in the pocket
Set your feet
Drive off your front foot

Yeah
Good luck

I wanted to laugh at this but it pains me. I want the guy to be great because he is our QB, but his lack of consistent good mechanics just drives me crazy. Yes he finds ways to win, I am just wondering how much better could he and this team be if he can just do those things more consistently.
 

Doomsay

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Here is what you need to do as a QB to make the deep throws to WR in stride:

Read the defense
Anticipate where the receiver WILL BE
Step up in the pocket
Set your feet
Drive off your front foot

Yeah
Good luck
/thread
 

zenmastersauce

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Hitting those deep balls would really get the defense in a tizzy. I really want to see our middle of the field play though. Our tight ends have to pull some weight I think even in this new offense.
 

percyhoward

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So, is this an admission they haven't been hitting them?
Haven't been trying to hit them. This is an acknowledgment of what everybody who's paying attention already knows -- we weren't aggressive with deeper throws until late in close games.

Our normal offense in 2018 was conservative, taking only occasional deep shots. Lal believes that if this becomes a feature of our normal offense in games (as opposed to practice) it will open up the shorter routes, which there are obviously a lot more of. Then it won't require an expert route-runner like Cooper (or the departed Beasley) to get guys open underneath because we will have schemed guys open due to defenders' fear of the deeper routes. ("Tendencied" them open might be more accurate.) In theory, this also helps the running game and screen game, but those aren't Lal's concern.

All the numbers below are from the 2018 regular season. In parentheses is the passer rating on these attempts. This shows how little we took advantage of opportunities with deeper throws in the first three quarters of games. There were 26 QB who threw at or beyond 15 yards past the line of scrimmage more often than Dak Prescott in 2018. (Mahomes had more than twice as many of these throws as Dak.) Whether that's on Linehan or Prescott himself, this is not the offense that our WR coach said he envisions.

15+yard targets -- ranked by number of attempts
1st-3rd quarter only
1 Mahomes 103 att (100.3)
2 Ryan 91 att (105.0)
3 Mayfield 87 att (106.8)
4 Goff 86 att (97.8)
5 Rodgers 84 att (108.6)
6 Roethlisberger 80 att (105.2)
7 Trubisky 75 att (71.9)
8 Luck 73 att (87.3)
9 Brady 72 att (101.5)
10 Rivers 69 att (113.3)

27 Prescott 47 att (100.8)


Below are the QB who threw 15 yards or deeper the most when the game was close in the 4th quarter/OT. This is the kind of offense Lal is talking about, but as our normal offense -- not just late in close games.

15+yard targets -- ranked by number of attempts
4th qtr/OT, margin one score or less
1 Roethlisberger 26 att (54.6)
2 Wilson 25 att (100.8)
3 Prescott 24 att (131.9)
3 Newton 24 att (46.4)
5 Rodgers 19 att (133.2)
6 Brady 18 att (142.1)
6 Manning 18 att (72.7)
8 Allen 17 att (75.2)
9 Brees 16 att (106.3)
10 Ryan 15 att (154.9)

The above data is from PFR, which lists only two target depths (<15 yards and 15+ yards), but allows you to categorize the attempts by game situation. PFF doesn't do game situation, but does list more specific target depths, which lets you narrow the sample down to just the 20+yard throws, for example. Since the big question is whether we can be successful with the deep ball on a consistent basis as opposed to just late in close games, it's worth looking into a possible correlation between number of deep attempts and passer rating.

Target 20+ yards, 2018 reg season
Deep passer rating (avg rank in deep attempts)
>110 (12th)
90-110 (20th)
70-89.9 (18th)
<70 (13th)

There's no correlation, except that the QB who threw deep the most were generally either very good (>110 rating) or very bad (<70). We do know that Dak was better at 15+yard targets when he attempted more of them, but we don't know what -- if anything -- that says about 20+yard targets over the course of an entire game. Nobody knows, and that includes Sonjay Lal.
 

visionary

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I wanted to laugh at this but it pains me. I want the guy to be great because he is our QB, but his lack of consistent good mechanics just drives me crazy. Yes he finds ways to win, I am just wondering how much better could he and this team be if he can just do those things more consistently.

He needs a real offensive coach who Dak will respect and will hold his feet to the fire

Garrett and Moore ain't that

This is why I'd love Payton in Dallas

Said the same thing about Romo
If BP had stayed I have no doubt we run a SB with Romo
With Wade and moron Garrett we proceeded to waste his entire career, along with Ware and Witten
Anybody think Romo wouldn't get into the HOF if he had a SB?
Now? Not so much

We're doing the same with Dak and Zeke and Smith and Martin
What a shame
 

InTheZone

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For sure. Can't be throwing ducks out of bounds or overthrowing wide open guys and letting them get cleaned up in the process.

If good defenses take away your comfort zone short passes outside the hash marks like the Colts did you must be able to go over the top to back them off.
 
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