Problem w/Zeke’s Contract

superonyx said:

Maybe its a cowboys thing. The national spotlight maybe. I live in the philly/baltimore metro market and I've never seen the Eagles fans complain and cut down one of their players based on contract the way Cowboys fans do. Fletcher Cox signed a huge contract and immediately his numbers drop. Alshon Jeffery is cashing big checks but his impact isnt that great. The philly fans which are the worst in the country seem to cry less over players contracts than Cowboys fans. The philly fans get behind their stars more than the cowboys fans do. Its truly bizarre and also sad.

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ABQCOWBOY said:

Perhaps but it was not always that way in Philly. The difference, IMO, is that that team believes in it's management and Coaching. They they have recently won a championship so it's easier for the fan base to buy in on direction. This franchise has watched coaching and/or management screw up some talented teams and we have not seriously competed for a championship since the 90s IMO. That makes for a much more pessimistic fan base IMO. They have reason.

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Sydla said:

What goal post did I move?

I have said for multiple years, spending a lot of resources on the TB position in a QB driven league is silly. It's not something new I came up with and its not personal to Zeke. I'd say the same thing if we had Barkley or Kamara or Gurley. I didn't want to pay Murray back in 2015.

Toxic people? LOL. Typical response from people who don't like their loyalty to players questioned. People gotta be "haterz!!!!"

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superonyx said:

All of them. You scan the stats and look for something to hang your hat on. If you can' find anything then you try to criticize the player for things he doesnt completely control. Its not clever or new.
This can be used to try and minimize any player to a point.

You determine where to put the goal post based on which category or stat you feel is the weakest.

Yawn!!!

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Sydla said:

I live in the Philly area, by the way.

Eagles fans will absolutely get on players based on contract. Shoot, just today on sports radio they have had callers getting on Wentz for not playing better since he signed that massive contract.

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Sydla said:

Minimize the player? I have said he's a really good TB. I have never said he's not good or overrated or blah or whatever.

I just don't believe in today's NFL that the running game has as much of an effect on the outcomes of games compared to the passing game. It's why I think it's foolish to invest a lot of money into the TB position. People in this thread are arguing how well he has played this year save for one game. But the team is still 3-3. Why? Because the TB position doesn't have the same effect on the outcomes of games as the QB and the coach.

That's not meant to be disrespectful to Elliott. It's just the reality of the NFL.

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WillieBeamen said:

This is a horrible argument

Amari Cooper had a career day against the Packers, we lost

Robert Quinn has played well in every game here, we lost 3 of the 4

According to Dak homers, he has played at least “fine” in every game this season, yet we are 3-3

You can not simplify it the way you are.

He is worth his contract because:

1. He is top 2 at his position

2. He is never hurt.

3. The offense runs through him

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Verdict said:

I’m not sure if Zeke will ever justify the money spent on him or not, but he’s going to give you at least some degree of return on the investment. Plus it’s 2/3 of what Tank is getting.

Zeke will most likely give you twice to three times as much production per dollar spent as Tank which cost 50 percent more than Zeke will make. Let that marinate for a little while.

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ABQCOWBOY said:

Hey Sydla,

Good to hear from you! You doing good?

You know, I don't really follow the Eagles closely enough to know where the fan base is at but I do know that not that long ago, there was serious talk with the media over Wentz's contract and I know that it also happened when they signed Nick Foles to the backup contract, early on. I know that this has been the case in the recent past but I don't know what is going on now with that fan base and I'm not going argue the point, I mean, I don't live the Eagles so it's something I would leave to others.

I do feel like I have a much better handle on the Cowboys though, for whatever that's worth. Not sure that's a lot these days. LOL........

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Sydla said:

Are you calling me a Dak homer?

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WillieBeamen said:

No not at all. You are a logical poster that calls it how you see it


I just dont agree with you on Zeke. e

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Sydla said:

Minimize the player? I have said he's a really good TB. I have never said he's not good or overrated or blah or whatever. His stats are quality this year.

I just don't believe in today's NFL that the running game has as much of an effect on the outcomes of games compared to the passing game. It's why I think it's foolish to invest a lot of money into the TB position. People in this thread are arguing how well he has played this year save for one game. But the team is still 3-3. Why? Because the TB position doesn't have the same effect on the outcomes of games as the QB and the coach.

That's not meant to be disrespectful to Elliott. It's just the reality of the NFL. People like you try to turn this into something personal - like people don't like Elliott or something like that. To me, it doesn't matter who is in that #21 uniform. I don't agree with paying that position elite money. I don't think you get the return on that investment from that position.

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superonyx said:

I guess if I thought the running game has no impact on the passing game success then I could see your point. But I don’t buy into this at all. Play action is a huge driving force in passing success and let’s be honest about something. Zeke has much more of an impact on the defense than a JAG RB would have.

it’s beyond naive to place a huge amount of responsibility for winning or losing on any 1 players shoulders. Even a QB. When you add that Zeke counts only 6.5m against the cap them you are basically arguing that he isn’t even worth 6.5 this season.

like I said. It’s a bunch of trolls still upset because they didn’t agree with the draft pick so they prefer to keep trying to spin it to prove they are right.
The Jalen Ramsey ball riders look foolish now that he has completely flaked out and became a cancer.

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Sydla said:

FWIW, I wasn't trying to refute your point but rather take on superyonx's point that no other fanbase focuses on contracts relative to performance. He cited Philly fans and that's simply not true. They focus on contracts and performance.

He brought up Fletcher Cox but that's a bizarre comment. Cox was a beast last year. He earned his money. And this year? He's not played as well and there definitely has been some criticism of his play relative to his contract this year.

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Sydla said:

I never said "no" impact.

If you aren't going to state my position correctly, there is no point in having this debate. I said the TB has less of an impact than the QB and the coach in the outcomes of games. We are seeing it up close right now with the Cowboys. Zeke, by the accounts of his fans here, is having a good year. And yet the team is 3-3 and scuffling at times offensively. Why?

Because the QB has gotten a bit loosey goosey the last 3 weeks and the offensive coaching/play calling has seemingly gotten more conservative.

Elliott, for as good as he is, can't overcome the coach or the QB. And that's the point. You are seeing successful teams still put together good running games and win games without the lopsided investment into one TB.

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ABQCOWBOY said:

No, I didn't take it that way. I was just expanding on the discussion. I mean, end of day, I don't really care what any other fan base thinks or doesn't think. I only care about the Cowboys and if we are hyper sensitive about this kind of thing, so be it. It only means that we are educated on the impact of what player salaries mean and how they effect overall team cap. I'm OK with that.

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superonyx said:

Who is arguing that a TB has a bigger impact than a QB or Coach? That is something no one has said.
The RB who is "overpaid" by your definition is a 6.5M cap hit and an average contract of only $12.75M. This isnt QB pay. Heck the bears backup Chase Daniels is making more than Zeke this year.

Now you are backing down and trying to create the argument into something it never was. Any player who has the amount of carries or touches in a game is proportionately worth the contract he signed.
You have presented no compelling argument disproving it.
In fact after this back and forth it has become more clear then ever that you are just fighting to prove to yourself that you were right years ago.

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superonyx said:

Sort of.....But we are only hyper sensitive towards a few positions. Where is the outrage that Zach Martin was the highest paid at his position and he has played poorly? Why is this constant bashing leveled towards one of the guys who is actually carrying his weight?

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CalPolyTechnique said:

When you front load a contract like we did extending Zeke you end up force feeding him to justify the contract.

Zeke’s game is well-rounded and he has his strengths but that doesn’t mean there aren’t better players in certain facets such as the passing game.

I don’t know what happened to Super Chunk but he’s become a power back; he has very little burst or ability to get past the second-level. Anyone questioning that at this point is in total denial; he’s not that guy anymore.

In 659 carries dating back to 2017, Zeke’s longest run is just 41 yards. His second longest is just 30 yards.

The money spent on Zeke is sunk cost, but the point is I’d much rather see Pollard on play designs where we’ve been throwing to Zeke. Frankly, I’d actually like to see Pollard become part of the regular rotation instead of oddly giving him one series of carries during the game and then not using him again.

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